Van stolen- need large battery for ebike!

[Randelph]

I just had my sweet van stolen! Pinched it right from my apt complex parking. That leaves me my ebike as sole transportation. Currently I can go 15-20 miles with the battery I’ve got.

Being retired on extremely limited income, I don’t have the luxury of simply buying the pricier options, like the Bafang 20.3ah shark style battery for $749, where I would feel confident they used good building techniques and quality cells. I am also factoring in buying the LunaCycle $99 battery charger as part of this purchase so that I can buy a larger-than-needed battery and attempt to keep it in the 20-80% range of charge.

So far the most highly recommended batteries on Amazon and eBay are from UPP, but apparently they make all kinds, including ones using generic Chinese cells. And then there's the blatant lying that is often found in ads- it's not enough to say they use LG or Samsung cells, that could be an outright lie (like the bike lights that claim to put out 4000 lumen, when it's probably closer to 600).

Recommendations from people who have bought these batteries and used them successfully or have torn them apart, that would be so appreciated!!! I’m 90% of the time on paved roads, occasionally hit some single tracks, so vibration is not as vital as for MTN bike riding.

Am leaning towards 18650 cells and 48V, but am also considering 21700 cells and 52V. Looking for a Hailong or Shark style enclosure to replace what I've got.


? Are there companies that you have confidence in making quality bang-for-buck batteries? Instead of Bafang's offering at $749 for a 20ah, I've seen various UPP batteries for $449. Are there specific batteries you recommend?

? I wanted to replace my existing Hailong battery in the same down tube location as seen on most bikes. With a 20-24ah battery, how do I securely attach it to the bike? Some people have a lot of problems with this.

? Inexpensive display for my Bafang BBS02b that shows battery voltage for real-time tracking of battery state of charge?


Thanks for the help! I need to upgrade my battery right away!

Randy

PS I guess it's cause I'm an old fart, but even with reading glasses on the default font size is too small for me

[Retrorockit]

This guy is similar to UPP, He's associated with Hailong, the maker of the shark battery cases. Ships from US.

https://www.ebay.com/str/hhailongbatterystore?_trkparms=folent%3Ahhailongbatterystore%7Cfolenttp%3A1&_trksid=p3542580.m47492.l74602

I like 21700 and there seems to be no price deficit anymore. There don't seem to be as many cocpycat cells in that size yet.
It would help if you told us more about your bike and the battery that you already have.

[73Eldo]

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the situation. Like you said a decent 'China' battery in that 20ah category is $749. You know for $450 there has been some corner cutting somewhere, probably everywhere possible and if you are going to sell low quality you got to make sure there is high profit so by the time word gets out you have enough cash to move on.

I too have heard a lot of mixed things about Unit Pack Power, unlike most of the other companies they seem to be pretty even mix of good and bad its just with the bad it seems real bad like fires even. I really don't know if they have been going through plant managers or if its random or what their deal is, I know I won't buy one or have it near any of my property.

Em3ev is another China one that has been around for a while and seems to have a decent rep. I have one of their older triangle packs that I think had a lot of miles on it before I got it and its still going strong. https://em3ev.com/shop/50v-14s6p-sma...03411865234375

You are correct that fitting a 20ah ish pack can be tricky especially if you have suspension or a small-medium frame. I don't like getting that much weight up high and if you had a 12 ah ish pack you will feel the extra weight.

Do you have much for skills and tools? Can you create some sort of mount or solder wires? If so this place has the battery part pretty cheap but its got no BMS, no connectors, no mounting so you would have to buy and install all that yourself which is not a small undertaking. Easier than building a whole pack from individual cells tho... https://jag35.com/collections/lithiu...-21-2ah-1080wh

[11111energy]

Here are some suggestions to help you find a quality and affordable battery for your needs:

1. Check out reputable e-bike battery manufacturers such as Unit Pack Power, Joyisi, and AW. They offer a range of battery options at various price points, and are known for using quality cells and good building techniques. Be sure to read reviews from other customers before making a purchase to ensure you're getting a reliable product.
2. Consider purchasing a DIY e-bike battery kit. These kits include all the components you need to build your own battery, including the cells, BMS, and enclosure. Building your own battery can be a cost-effective way to get a high-quality battery, but it does require some technical skill and knowledge.
3. Look for a battery with a secure mounting system. Most Hailong and Shark style enclosures are designed to mount to the down tube of your bike with screws, but you may need additional brackets or straps to keep the battery securely in place.
4. For a low-cost display option, consider the Cycle Analyst V3 from Grin Technologies. It provides real-time data on battery voltage, current, and capacity, as well as speed and distance traveled. It can be used with the Bafang BBS02b and other e-bike systems.

Remember to always prioritize safety when selecting an e-bike battery. Look for batteries with built-in BMS systems, avoid overcharging or over-discharging the battery, and store the battery in a cool, dry place when not in use. Good luck with your battery upgrade!

[Randelph]

Wow, thanks so much for all this info.! Am researching as we speak!

[Randelph]

This guy is similar to UPP, He's associated with Hailong, the maker of the shark battery cases. Ships from US.
https://www.ebay.com/str/hhailongbatterystore?_trkparms=folent%3Ahhailongba tterystore%7Cfolenttp%3A1&_trksid=p3542580.m47 492.l74602
I like 21700 and there seems to be no price deficit anymore. There don't seem to be as many cocpycat cells in that size yet.
It would help if you told us more about your bike and the battery that you already have.

Retrorockit,
Do you have or know someone who has bought from this Hailong battery store? They say right in their ads that these are not fake cells, same as Panasonic cells used by Tesla!

But as the post right below your own remarks, at a $450 price point instead of $750, even if they’re using top shelf batteries, it doesn’t mean the rest of the build is comparable to the higher priced ones. It seems very strange that with all the tear downs done on YouTube and within forums for every product under the sun, that there’s not more talk and proof of the build quality and cells used in these lower-cost batteries. I’ve looked everywhere I know to look, which has brought me to this excellent forum and contacting sellers.

EM3 EV I would trust for quality, but their largest 52V is 17ah and costs$750!!!

I sent a message thru eBay re the cells being used, and the price discrepancy: they have the same battery (52V 20ah Panasonic/Tesla cells 40am BMS), and one of them is:
- $379 (delivery date Mar 16-18)
-$399 (delivery date Mar 17-21)

With the 21700 you end up getting a smaller, lighter weight for the entire battery because it’s more energy dense? That’s a big consideration because of the size and weight of a 20ah might make it super challenging to get it securely fastened. Lucky for me because the Specialized Rock Hopper bike downtube is rather large and rectangular, so lots of good surface area to drill into and be stable.

- Bike: Specialized Rock Hopper, approx 10 yo, I’m the 3d owner?, was converted to an ebike using the BBS02B kit (not by me!), has 2700 miles on it. Have never used the USB cable to specify settings, don’t have a Windows computer at the moment!
- Existing battery: Hailong enclosure, 48V, weighs 7 pounds, I’m guessing it’s about 13ah. I get about 15-20 miles a charge
- Riding: very little off-road, a bit of gravel roads, mostly on paved streets
- Charging: Up until now I’ve re-charged it every time I go out because the capacity is so low. Hoping to get a larger-than-needed battery so I can keep it between 20-80/90% charge level

I’ve decided to switch to a 52V, want faster acceleration and top speed, but mostly the acceleration. Am slightly worried about my drivetrain, I’ve gone thru a cassette and several chains during the 2,000 miles I’ve had it. Installed a shift sensor which helps a lot!

Will be installing the battery where the old one was on the downtube for a lower center of gravity, there’s no other place it would fit other than the rear rack. Down the road will look into installing the old one on the rear rack for times I want the extra 15-20 miles, but that would involve figuring out how a 52v and 48v batttery could both feed the motor.

[Retrorockit]

The 21700 are a little longer cells, so a little wider battery which usually doesn'y hurt. Watt/ hours pretty much equals weight. More range more weight.
I'm not sure if the Hailong guy has been around very long. I had already bought a 21700 48V. 24Ah( for a big price) before i saw his ads. He doesn't go that big in shark batteries anyway.
In 21700 he tends to specify Panasonic, in 18600 not so much. My 24Ah was only an inch longer than the older 18Ah it replaced, but weighed a lot more. There is no way around it.

[73Eldo]

12-13ah is a pretty common size fro a 48v battery so that is likely what you had. 2 miles per ah is usually a good guess for range but obviously there are a lot of variables. Its possible with the age and miles on your pack that a new 12ah pack would get you a little more. I assume the range you were getting wasn't till dead, you call it done leaving a little? Have you ever ran it to dead just to see how far it does go? Sometimes the meters are not accurate and there can be a lot left. I always run a new combo to dead one time just to get an idea how dead is dead.

A cassette and chains over that kind of miles doesn't sound unusual. You have to note that 90% of the bikes sold don't see more than 100 miles per year and I think the manufactures know that so they don't waste any money building many of the parts too good. low-mid to mid quality (price) parts seem to be the best for E bikes. Low low is just junk and sometimes won't last that 100 miles on a non ebike. The higher you go the more the focus is on light weight over strength and we for the most part don't care about the weight. That mid level seems to be the sweet spot where the materials are good and they have not started to try and cut the weight down. it does seem like there are getting to be some higher end products that don't cut the weight in favor of strength. I think the problem is about 90% of the e bike market at this time is low end as far as the bike components.

[Randelph]

Sounds like you have a pretty good handle on the situation. Like you said a decent 'China' battery in that 20ah category is $749. You know for $450 there has been some corner cutting somewhere, probably everywhere possible and if you are going to sell low quality you got to make sure there is high profit so by the time word gets out you have enough cash to move on.

I too have heard a lot of mixed things about Unit Pack Power, unlike most of the other companies they seem to be pretty even mix of good and bad its just with the bad it seems real bad like fires even. I really don't know if they have been going through plant managers or if its random or what their deal is, I know I won't buy one or have it near any of my property.

Em3ev is another China one that has been around for a while and seems to have a decent rep. I have one of their older triangle packs that I think had a lot of miles on it before I got it and its still going strong. https://em3ev.com/shop/50v-14s6p-sma...03411865234375

You are correct that fitting a 20ah ish pack can be tricky especially if you have suspension or a small-medium frame. I don't like getting that much weight up high and if you had a 12 ah ish pack you will feel the extra weight.

Do you have much for skills and tools? Can you create some sort of mount or solder wires? If so this place has the battery part pretty cheap but its got no BMS, no connectors, no mounting so you would have to buy and install all that yourself which is not a small undertaking. Easier than building a whole pack from individual cells tho... https://jag35.com/collections/lithiu...-21-2ah-1080wh

Yeah, that’s what I’m worried about! Have you heard anything about the eBay Hailong dealer that the post above your own referred me to?

Re UPP, I’ve heard they have higher priced ones that are of better quality, but everything I’ve seen so far is in the $400-450 range. Wish my finances didn’t necessitate hoping for good quality but inexpensive batteries, prospect of having to be home while charging is terrible! A fire is no joking matter.

Watched a video of EM3 EV factory, the owner seems to know his stuff and has invested in quality welding machines that’ll speed it up. Apparently gluing all the cells together helps tremendously for stability, but is harder/pricier for them to build. I would gladly buy it from them, but the largest they have of the 52V is 17ah, and costs$750!!! They quickly sent me COMPREHENSIVE directions and answers to my questions, really impressive, wish I could afford them.

Yeah, I can do basic soldering but would not want to chance a big project like that, perhaps if they included a BMS. Looks like something for a back rack! Those are some highly charged cells, never heard of 18650 cells with 5300mah charge, have only heard of them going up to 3500mah. And, they don’t address the quality vs namebrand cells question.

Am planning on using the space for my existing 13ah battery, it’s the only place I could put such a large battery other than the rear rack. Thankfully the downtube is large/rectangular, so lots of surface area, though of course I’m going to be cautious.

Thanks for all your input! As of now, I’ll probably go with the Hailong 52V 20ah 40a controller (isn’t that 40a much larger than needed? Is it the controller that has the mosfets that can burn out from too much load?

Randy

[Randelph]

Here are some suggestions to help you find a quality and affordable battery for your needs:

1. Check out reputable e-bike battery manufacturers such as Unit Pack Power, Joyisi, and AW. They offer a range of battery options at various price points, and are known for using quality cells and good building techniques. Be sure to read reviews from other customers before making a purchase to ensure you're getting a reliable product.
   Do you have personal experience or have heard about these companies? I imagine that with these lower-priced batteries competing for those budget dollars, that a recent track record is helpful- if you’re always trying to come in at a low price you’re subject to variable build quality over time.
2. Consider purchasing a DIY e-bike battery kit. These kits include all the components you need to build your own battery, including the cells, BMS, and enclosure. Building your own battery can be a cost-effective way to get a high-quality battery, but it does require some technical skill and knowledge.
   Because this is now my sole means of transportation, I’d want to do something like that when I’ve got time and no pressure. I wouldn’t want to solder all the cells together, but if assembling something that would cost considerably less money and would guarantee a quality build and cells, that’s very enticing.
3. Look for a battery with a secure mounting system. Most Hailong and Shark style enclosures are designed to mount to the down tube of your bike with screws, but you may need additional brackets or straps to keep the battery securely in place.
   Luckily my Specialized Rock Hopper has a rectangular downtube, almost ideal for this. When people are using screws as well as straps/zip ties, it’s to hold the bracket down, right?
4. For a low-cost display option, consider the Cycle Analyst V3 from Grin Technologies. It provides real-time data on battery voltage, current, and capacity, as well as speed and distance traveled. It can be used with the Bafang BBS02b and other e-bike systems.
   Yikes! At around $150 that’s pricy for me, and wouldn’t replace the display. I was hoping more for a display that included all the usual stuff AND battery diagnostics. I would think that just having a reading of the voltage would be enough or is there more to it? My main aim is to keep the new battery charged AMAP btw 20-80%. The current display has an all-over-the-map fuel gauge (about 15 bars) that from moment to moment, esp as the battery runs low, is practically useless.

Remember to always prioritize safety when selecting an e-bike battery. Look for batteries with built-in BMS systems, avoid overcharging or over-discharging the battery, and store the battery in a cool, dry place when not in use. Good luck with your battery upgrade!
Thanks! Every battery Ive seen has built-in BMS that protects from over-charging/discharging. Am just wondering about my controller, which apparently is built into the BBS02b in the case.

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[Randelph]

STTS,
Wow, I wish I had your gumption (and resources?) for these projects. I used to have a large garage and tons of tools. These days I’m in a small apt, but still have many of the tools needed for jobs like this.

My reticence is partly cause I need this larger battery- I can only go about 15-20 miles, and with my van stolen it’s my only transportation. And of course I’m forced to go as cheaply as possible due to budget, which makes things a lot harder! Bang-for-buck and quality don’t always go together. And while I’ve done plenty of handyman stuff, there’s enough of the unknown even in this simple project to make me want to plan it out:

? Can I simply use a magic box (I’ve heard of them for using batteries of mixed voltages together), or do I need to program the BBS02b for 52V operation using a Windows laptop I don’t have? At the very least, even if I don’t try for a dual battery right away, I still need to use the programming cable to get a 52V battery for the extra pep. Saw a video tutorial.

? What is the maximum size I’ll be able to fit- it’s not completely clear, very case dependent, some are over 6” high! Also, the extra room for getting it in and out.

? Will I be able to secure it- I’m not mtn biking so that helps, might consider getting a 17ah. Why can’t you just put more screws in the mounting bracket into the down frame? Seems like using 4 screws instead of just 2 would get the job done. Otherwise, what are the other options for securing it?

? What connectors will I need- it’s just a black and red wire from the battery mount, right? Not sure if it’s xt60 or 90, I’m guessing these are the standard ones from the BBS02b. Are there other wires that need messing with?

So far the Hailong deal that Post General shared is the most likely: Panasonic/Tesla 21700 cells, $379, 20ah / Hailong case. Seems almost too good for that price, and of course their website talks about them using good cells, but what about the rest of the battery?

Trying not to impulsively buy, this is something that needs solid research and recommendations! Thanks for your input!

[Randelph]

Retrorockit,
Not sure what else to tell you about my bike- I thought I covered everything relevant to getting a new battery-

[Retrorockit]

With a BBS02 I would just stick with 48V. Especially since you don't have a laptop to program it. Hills or headwinds can make a big difference in how much battery you need. There really are no standard connectors. The battery guys are tending to wards XT stuff, but motor kits are all over the place. Bullets, Anderson and XT. The Luna offroad batteries are just magnetic mounted and don't lock to the bike AFAIK. They kind of make them for the bikes they sell. Paxtana says they're moving towards prebuilt bikes and away from DIY. 20Ah is a good sized battery. But on a windy day here I can flatten out my 24Ah in a bout 30 miles. I won't be far from home, but it has happened. But I have a BBSHD and I'm not afraid to use it.
I've added extra frame holes. It's tricky accurately drilling into round tubing. make a wooden drill guide to do this. The threaded inserts don't cost much and can be seated with a nut and bolts. But working inside the frame angles you may need to buy short drill bits and an angle drill. There is also the Triple Bob hose clamp type bracket. It still uses the frame bolts so some wiseguy with a screwdriver actually can't take your battery.
On this bike I can fit a business card between the battery and frame in 2 places, Unless it has a glossy photo, then it won't fit.

[Randelph]

It looks like we have very similar bikes! Mostly for road use, hard tails with seat post suspension (love mine), bafang mid-motor, nice rear rack. Looks like your Trek downtube is also a slightly rounded rectangle.

With a BBS02 I would just stick with 48V. Especially since you don't have a laptop to program it. I’m supposed to be getting Windows 11 from Woot for $49, hopefully I’ll be able to revive my 2016 Windows laptop. I enjoy the extra pep when it’s fresh off a charge, so would love to see more of that.

Hills or headwinds can make a big difference in how much battery you need. There really are no standard connectors. The battery guys are tending to wards XT stuff, but motor kits are all over the place. Bullets, Anderson and XT. I’m guessing I’ve got XT60 connector.

The Luna offroad batteries are just magnetic mounted and don't lock to the bike AFAIK. They kind of make them for the bikes they sell. Paxtana says they're moving towards prebuilt bikes and away from DIY. 20Ah is a good sized battery. But on a windy day here I can flatten out my 24Ah in a bout 30 miles. I won't be far from home, but it has happened. But I have a BBSHD and I'm not afraid to use it.

I've added extra frame holes. It's tricky accurately drilling into round tubing. make a wooden drill guide to do this. The threaded inserts don't cost much and can be seated with a nut and bolts. But working inside the frame angles you may need to buy short drill bits and an angle drill. There is also the Triple Bob hose clamp type bracket. It still uses the frame bolts so some wiseguy with a screwdriver actually can't take your battery. I’ve been wondering if I shouldn’t just get the 17ah battery, worried about it staying in place. But the Triple Bob hose clamp looks like it’d do the job! Thanks for the tips! How did you construct your wooden drill guide?

On this bike I can fit a business card between the battery and frame in 2 places, Unless it has a glossy photo, then it won't fit.
Wow! Do you take yours out for charging? This is what I’m afraid of! I hang my bike up from a hook on the ceiling, super small apt, and always remove the battery for charging and to make it lighter pick it up. How did you slide it into the mounting bracket?
And dealing with the wires when you’re out of space towards the bottom of the battery!

[Retrorockit]

A lot of the displays don't play well with 52V. They don't show battery status correctly.
I din't do the wooden guide but wished I had. A strip of 1x2 with a line down the center, drill 2 holes to match the water bottle holes, and 2 more on center line to guide the drill. Bolt it down and drill you starter holes, open up the holes, and repeat. On round tubing the drill will be touching in 2 places and pulling in opposite directions. Not likely to stay where you want it. especuially at 9-10mm holes the inserts need.
On that bike I tapped one water bottle hole to M6 and out a stud in there with large ss flat washers and a nylock nut for a pivot. 2 3/8" flat washers were JB Welded over the water bottle fitting to create a platform. The battery pivots out to the side by sliding the plastic clamp forward on the down tube to release the front.

[Randelph]

Wow, you were motivated to get that huge battery in there. Didn’t see your post till now, didn’t realize we are already on the second page. And, you’ve got wires thru your downtube!

Am going to start another thread, asking if buying used batteries makes any sense. An alternative to a large 20-24ah battery would be to have 2 smaller batteries, one of them 15 or 17ah, and the second one around 13ah. I imagine 15-17 ah would be a considerably smaller/lighter battery, and I could keep the second one in a backpack, just swap them out.

This would give me the flexibility of going out most days with just the battery that’ll get me thru my ride, and on the rarer occasions of taking longer rides, I could bring the 2d battery with me. I would need the economy of a used battery to be able to afford 2 of them for under $600.

I read as part of the knowledge base that the controller?, allows up to 60V, and that particular guy had seen more controller failures with 52V batteries compared to 48V, all of it with Bafang mid-drive motors. I figure I should be fine, these days I mostly keep my PAS to 2 out of 5, and only use the throttle for a few seconds when pulling away from a stop. Of course, having more battery power I’d be more inclined to punch up the PAS level, esp on long uphill stretches, but even then I’m pedaling and know how to NOT put the motor under strain.

Maybe I'm being foolish. Good point about the potential problem with the display not showing battery levels correctly. I was hoping for a display that showed the usual as well as the battery voltage.

Not sure what is going on- the power didn’t work for a few minutes while riding in a light drizzle. When it came back on the power was substantially increased. I’ve heard about the 120nm of torque, and never experienced what I would have expected. Yesterday I was very happy, the motor was outputting what I'd expect from an industry leading motor.

[Weirdness abounds- just got a call out of the blue regarding a 15 year old problem with the family inheritance, my nephew who is the one who is upset, is 240 pounds of solid muscle, 6'4", highly trained in martial arts and prone to a volatile temper, nobody wants to piss this guy off, and my poor sister, 9 kids (yes!), how do you deal with someone you can't ignore!?]

Thanks for all your input!

Here is the post asking about used batteries:

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/batteries/18650/161012-used-batteries-shark-hailong-case