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    Battery won't charge

    Killer Whale Battery & 48V Advanced 300W Luna Charger
    Everything was fine until yesterday when I plugged it in (battery was about 65%) and the fan came on for less than a second and then shut off and that was it. Switch position is currently 100% and 5V is selected though at this point I've tried just about every config.

    Woke up today and decided to try draining the battery completely but when I did nothing changed. Now I have a fully dead battery that won't charge. If I leave it plugged in for a few minutes the fan will come on every so often for less than a second but no charging ever takes place.

    Wavetek meter readings at the end of the charger cable say 118 regardless of switch position on the charger. 118??? The LCD window reads 54.3 when not plugged in.

    Any ideas?? Something tells me it's the charger.

    #2
    Have you tried resetting the bms in your battery?

    Comment


      #3
      Try this: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...charging-issue

      Is Wavetek a DVM or something? Does it have internal battery? Selectable functions/scales?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by oledave View Post
        Have you tried resetting the bms in your battery?
        How do I do this without opening up the battery?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by ykick View Post
          Try this: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...charging-issue

          Is Wavetek a DVM or something? Does it have internal battery? Selectable functions/scales?
          A wavetek is simply a brand of multimeter.

          Thanks for the link. I found that thread before I ever posted here. One of the first things it suggests is measuring the output of the charger. Considering I am getting a reading of 118 I didn't bother going into the rest of it with the lightbulb and stripping wires, opening battery cases, etc... It looks like hours of work. Probably more cost and time effective to just buy a new $79 charger even though this one is less than a year old.

          Comment


          • ykick
            ykick commented
            Editing a comment
            118 what? volts? volts DC? Are you sure/certain the Wavetek is reading correctly? Have you tried measuring something simple like a car battery? What plugs does your charger use? I'm around Linda Vista, where are you?
            Last edited by ykick; 05-09-2017, 03:27 PM.

          #6
          Okay once again confirming to myself that I'm a numbskull I had the meter on the wrong setting. I turned to dial on the multimeter clockwise instead of counter-clockwise. Anyway now it is measuring 54v output at the plug. Now I'm even more confused because things might be starting to point to the battery rather than the charger. How does this just happen out of the blue?? I'm in North Park BTW. My plug looks like the one pictured below. My battery and charger are 48v if you have anything compatible for testing.
          Click image for larger version

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          Comment


            #7
            No worries, we've all been there, similar or worse.

            That's a Male Barrel to Male XT60 dongle. At least what I call 'em. And yes, I've got stuff which can connect and qualify that and more. My only Luna charger is 52V(58V) but I do have MW (Meanwell) power supplies easily trimmed for 48V(54V) output.

            So this acting like the main power output is working but the charge port is not? Maybe a shot from a charger into the main (P) output port would reset the BMS (C) charge input? Of course the hat trick to do that is adapting connections in a reasonable, sensible manner.

            So it's about 7-10 miles between us?

            Comment


              #8
              Originally posted by ykick View Post
              No worries, we've all been there, similar or worse.

              That's a Male Barrel to Male XT60 dongle. At least what I call 'em. And yes, I've got stuff which can connect and qualify that and more. My only Luna charger is 52V(58V) but I do have MW (Meanwell) power supplies easily trimmed for 48V(54V) output.

              So this acting like the main power output is working but the charge port is not? Maybe a shot from a charger into the main (P) output port would reset the BMS (C) charge input? Of course the hat trick to do that is adapting connections in a reasonable, sensible manner.

              So it's about 7-10 miles between us?
              Is it safer for me to plug my 48v charger into one of your 52v batteries than it is to plug your 52v charger into my 48v battery? At this point I'm really just trying to figure out if it's the charger or the battery. If my charger works on your battery then we know my charger is ok etc..

              Comment


              • ykick
                ykick commented
                Editing a comment
                I can put a measured load on your charger just fine. Use old space heaters for resistive test loads or connect it to one of my partially charged 12S packs. Enough to determine if it's the charger or battery (possibly the BMS charge port)? PM me if you wanna try to connect and I'll give you my number?

              #9
              Yah sounds good. Before I bother you I'm going to try some more troubleshooting. I think I can facilitate the adapter I need to try charging through the output port. We'll find out tomorrow.

              Comment


                #10
                Woke up today and rigged the cable for the jumpstart.
                At the moment of truth, I pushed the wires into the discharge ports and the charger only came on for a half second (just like it does when I plug it in normally). According to the link provided above, the culprit is likely the charger but there is still a chance it could be the BMS??

                "If the jumpstart didnt worked, the charger never started or you can’t charge you pack on either ports, it probably means that the charger need to be replaced first, there is a slight risk that the BMS is acting up too. But changing the charger is the first step, contact your supplier if the charger is still covered under warranty.


                If the jumpstart worked and the charger was running till you removed it and still not charging normally it probably means that the BMS is still the issue. There is another reset procedure on some BMS’s but it involves the opening the battery and unplugging the balance connection (sense wires) and plugging it back. So at this point before opening the battery you should talk to your supplier."

                Comment


                  #11
                  My technique for making “moment of truth” connections is to simply brush or lightly touch the intended connections together. Sometimes a spark is normal so hold it for a moment to make sure everything settles down but the point is to not shove tight connections together until you’re confident the circuit won’t overload. My worst nightmares have often been realized when I simply shove power connectors together and too much current starts flowing. Oops…

                  But yeah, that behavior is pointing towards a charger problem. Do you think you could safely rig DVM 10A current meter (if Wavetek has one?) in series to see how much current, if any, the charger is attempting to push into the pack? RC power meters can be very handy for this sort of testing too but connectors and wire become a "thing" with this stuff.

                  Comment


                    #12
                    Originally posted by ykick View Post
                    My technique for making “moment of truth” connections is to simply brush or lightly touch the intended connections together. Sometimes a spark is normal so hold it for a moment to make sure everything settles down but the point is to not shove tight connections together until you’re confident the circuit won’t overload. My worst nightmares have often been realized when I simply shove power connectors together and too much current starts flowing. Oops…

                    But yeah, that behavior is pointing towards a charger problem. Do you think you could safely rig DVM 10A current meter (if Wavetek has one?) in series to see how much current, if any, the charger is attempting to push into the pack? RC power meters can be very handy for this sort of testing too but connectors and wire become a "thing" with this stuff.
                    Beats me. This Wavetek looks like it can do anything. If it reads 54v at the plug isn't that what it's putting out? Lunacycle is suggesting I buy a new charger. I'm curious how long the warranty is on these chargers. Mine is less than a year old. Literally sitting in the same place since day one. Never mishandled or subjected to extreme conditions etc.. When things work it's amazing but I gotta admit I've had my share of problems with this whole ebike thing so far.

                    Comment


                    • ykick
                      ykick commented
                      Editing a comment
                      eBikes as a product haven’t matured yet that’s for certain, IMO.

                      eBikes have certainly come a long long way (12 years for me) but until we have dealers and technicians in every county it’s gonna mostly be up to us, end users, to solve our issues/problems.

                      1 year or much less out of a Charger is sometimes all you get. Try buying ‘em from a Chinese outfit like BMS Battery, Green Bike Kit, or eBay/Alibaba - have it arrive DOA and see how it’s “warrantied”. Luna will probably work with you, maybe discount a replacement? Never hurts to ask?

                      But charger's so vital that many of us make sure we have more than one. In fact, I do that with almost everything related to eBikes. If mission critical, a spare is often best way to insure running errands or just having fun instead of head scratching?

                      Offer stands, PM me if you would like reasonably qualified help figuring this out before you buy or do anything further? I don’t charge anything, just trying to help. Damn marine layer ever moves out I’d really be up for a ride to meet someone at a convenient time/place....

                    #13
                    I just did the lightbulb test. It lit up for a half-second and then shut back off again. Same behavior as every other test so far. I'm going to order a new charger. Thanks for your open offer to help. Knowing my level of inexperience you'll probably be hearing from me soon ;)

                    Comment


                    • ykick
                      ykick commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yeah, something is almost certainly wonky with that charger. It may be as simple as the current (I) adjustment drifted out a bit and can possibly be trimmed back into spec using a pot inside? But, don't bother with that right now - get another charger that outputs 54.6V and get back to riding.

                      Early sunshine today, you can bet I'm gonna run through some battery packs. PM anytime if I can help, no problem.

                    #14
                    UPDATE.
                    New charger just arrived. Seems to be charging the battery fine so far. While it's a bummer my first charger died so soon, I'm just grateful it wasn't my battery causing the issue.

                    Comment


                    • ykick
                      ykick commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Well that’s good news and fast order fulfillment too. I wouldn’t toss the old charger yet since it appears to be trying to work but going in/out of “hiccup” protection mode? That behavior would be expected if CC (constant current) mode max I (Amps) drifted out of adjustment?

                      If you’re not up to qualifying that yourself I’m always willing to give it a look….

                    #15
                    I'd love to fix the old charger if possible. Where would we even begin with that?
                    Also, not sure if this could have caused the problem but I noticed that the charger(s) needs to be plugged in just right to charge and that sometimes even a slight movement of either battery or charger will break the connection. There seems to be an issue at the point where the barrel plugs into the battery.

                    Comment


                    • ykick
                      ykick commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Are you saying even the new charger is acting intermittent from the barrel connector charge input to battery?

                      TBH I’m no fan of barrel plugs and the larger they get the more “room” they tend to have for slop and connection errors. Unfortunately, that’s what we have on the current Shark pack charge input so it’s my practice to treat that port very gently/carefully. No tugging or pulling on it, etc.

                      If there’s any sign of intermittent connection try a different male barrel connector. And if that doesn’t help then it’s probably time for a little re-tensioning of the female barrel connector but that’s not a job for someone who doesn’t understand the “potential” present at that connector. Shorting those charge input pins too often causes other bad things to happen.

                      A spare XT60 to Barrel dongle is actually a good thing to keep on hand. A decent soldier jockey could whip one up with a quick scavenge of old wall warts (device power supplies like old routers or CCTV systems often use that 5mm barrel) and a trip to RC Hobby shop or website to grab some XT60 connectors.

                      Or, just order a dongle from Luna but make sure you get the right XT60 gender as there’s a been some weirdness about that over the last few months.

                      Now the old charger may have a sloppy I or current adjustment pot which has moved enough to cause the hiccup behavior? You should check the knowledge base as I believe there's more info about the chargers and adjustments that can sometimes be made inside. But I can help if that's getting too heavy for you?
                      Last edited by ykick; 05-13-2017, 08:17 AM.
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