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    I'm installing a BBSHD on a Cannondale Trail 6 and it looks like I need at least 6-8mm of spacers on sprocket side. I bought the helper kit -- https://lunacycle.com/luna-install-helpers/ but the aluminum spacers don't slide all the way past the threads on the motor bottom bracket. Is that just because the inside needs to be cleaned up a bit with a file? With a digital caliper it looks like it needs ~ 1mm wider interior diameter.

    Also, the install helper kit says it includes 8mm of spacers. I measure only 6mm with the 2 aluminum ones stacked together. Does that 8mm include the 5 bolt ones too? Where can the 5 bolt ones be used? Can I use 1 or 2 between the motor and Luna Eclipse Face plate that I am using (to get a little more clearance on "swingarm")?

    If the 3 Al spacers are not enough, then I guess I'll need to order a second kit to get more spacers?

    edit: I just measured and I have a 73mm bottom bracket size.
    Last edited by eric_ric; 08-29-2019, 04:27 PM.

    Comment


    • eric_ric
      eric_ric commented
      Editing a comment
      Great thanks, I’ll move the 5 bolt spacer and will order some more spacers

    • ncrkd
      ncrkd commented
      Editing a comment
      If you've a well equipped bicycle shop nearby and want to speed things along, spacers for thread-on single-speed and older multi-speed freewheels are the same diameter as bottom bracket spacers and are interchangeable.

    • eric_ric
      eric_ric commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks paxtana and ncrkd. I wound up being able to mount it with only the spacers from the helper kit. But it (motor housing, not the chainring) barely touches the swingarm, so I think I'll order a few more spacers to give it another 1-3mm of space. I did get a file and clean up the inside of the spacers and that did the trick.

      I added (2) of the 5 bolt spacers between the motor and chainring to get the chain lined up. My concern now is that even though the Luna faceplate came with longer stainless steel allen bolts, they don't have as much threaded length gripping the motor as I'd like.

      Does Luna sell longer stainless steel bolts for the securing chainring to the motor? If not, can I please find out the specs so I can order from a place like Bolt Depot. I looked at Home Depot and they didn't have the right thread pitch.

      One more question - for breaking in a brand new Luna 52V battery, what is considered "going easy" on the current draw for the first few charge cycles? It's painful to not just "pin it" =) In terms of wattage, should I stick to under 1,000 watts, under 600 watts, under 300 watts (please don't say that!)

    Hey so I've been really enjoying my Sur Ron X (all stock) and I'm coming on 400 miles and feel like its time to get new brake pads/brakes.

    1) What brake pads do you recommend?
    2) What brake system should I upgrade to?
    3) Should I get Super Moto tires if I'm mainly on the road, and how does it impact performance?
    4) Should I upgrade the battery / controller?

    Comment


    • paxtana
      paxtana commented
      Editing a comment
      1 I would recommend these aftermarket pads https://lunacycle.com/shimano-saint-...s-for-sur-ron/
      2 If you mean completely different calipers that's open to debate what would be best. Magura seems nice. Here is some info on brakes you may find useful https://sur-ron.markkitaoka.com/brak...r-and-caliper/
      3 If you are mainly on the road supermoto might be a fun idea for better cornering etc. The smaller wheelsize will give you better low end torque.
      4 I do not know if you should upgrade your battery or controller as I neither know what parts you currently have nor what you are trying to achieve.

    • xrami247
      xrami247 commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for the quick reply! Your first link is broken but I see the model number, I'll shop around. Any recommendations on sites other than amazon I should be looking would be greatly appreciated.

      And not so much the calipers as the disk brakes/levers, I saw a few people recommending to upgrade to Shimanos or Maguras so just figured I'd ask here.

      Regarding what I'm trying to achieve, a little more speed / range would be awesome if it'll cost me less than $1500

    • paxtana
      paxtana commented
      Editing a comment
      Jensonusa is pretty good for bike parts, if they have it in stock. The link I left is still very new so we are still apparently working out the kinks but it'll probably be available later.

    Hello,

    The lock for the battery door on my Sur Ron X will not open with the key to release the battery door. The battery is not currently mounted in the bike. The key turns normally but will not release the latch. Please help! Thanks.

    Comment


    • paxtana
      paxtana commented
      Editing a comment
      (we'll be coordinating with you directly on this one)

    Hello,

    We've been riding the Lone Wolf Roam for about a month now and have had some gear jumping lately. I noticed the BBSHD was a little loose and had crept away from the frame, so I started there. I got a good 1/6th turn on it when tightening after repositioning. I then did a full 'factory reset' and realignment of the derailleur (H, L, and barrel, the proper way). While I was doing these tasks, I noticed some wear on the chainstay from the chainring (pic 1), and a shear pattern on every other tooth of the chainring (the teeth that meet the inner links, pic 2). I viewed the chain from the back of the frame and noticed the chainring pulls the chain toward the frame at the foremost position and causes rub on the inner links (pic 3).

    The derailleur adjustment mitigated all instances of ornery gears except 7 & 8, which still slip with every few rotations. As it it stands, the chainring clears the chainstay with 1-3mm gap. Some help with the following would be much appreciated:
    1. Is it possible the chainring only hits the chainstay under load, like uphill etc? If not, how can we prevent this in the future?
    2. Is there a tweak or trick to getting 7 & 8 gears to play nice?

    Thank you as always!

    Comment


    • paxtana
      paxtana commented
      Editing a comment
      What is on the teeth is too consistent to be caused by the chain itself and probably the sprocket was just built like that.

      Are you saying it is skipping in the gears furthest inbound, or the gears furthest outbound? If you are saying it is skipping in the gears furthest inbound as is typically the case, you might bring the chainring in a little further if there's any spacers being used or whatever you could remove them, but you might scratch that chainstay a bit more. From the looks someone already tried to bring it in further and could not.

      Probably best to follow this guide.
      https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...bshd-and-bbs02

    I have a new Low and Fatty Wolf with Ludicrous and failed my front chain ring just now. More on that later. (I take full responsibility for the failure - there was nothing wrong with it before I rode it - but will be posting details with the goal of understanding root cause so I can prevent recurrence after I get a replacement chain ring.) The urgent question is, I have a second Wolf Pack battery that I charged to 100% because I intended this to be a long ride using both batteries. Since the bike is not rideable until a new chain ring arrives, this pack will be sitting at 100% until the bike becomes rideable again, degrading battery life. Is there any way to discharge it somewhat so it isn't sitting at 100%?

    Comment


    • Squeamish
      Squeamish commented
      Editing a comment
      After about 2 hours of running the motor with the chainring but chain off, it has developed what could be described as a grinding noise/more noise/less clean sound than it did initially. With it stopped, I can rotate the chainring loosely about half a millimeter (measured at cog diameter) between stopping points (when it presumably hits the gears inside the clutch). The chainring is mounted solidly and when I take it off I can still feel this play in the clutch so it has to be internal to the clutch. Is this slight looseness something to be concerned about?

    • paxtana
      paxtana commented
      Editing a comment
      I wouldn't worry about it but it is not hard to do a teardown and add grease or do internal inspection, if you wanted to.

    • Squeamish
      Squeamish commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks! I will wait and see how it runs after I get the new chainring and cassette on and do a teardown only if it seems to be different than before.

    New to this, looking at purchasing ebike and had technical question on the Ludicrous option - would I have the ability to turn it on an off to make it street legal (i.e. to travel to and from off-road trails)? If so, does this require additional tools? Looking for something I can use for commuting and off-road trails with lots of hills. thanks.

    Comment


    • paxtana
      paxtana commented
      Editing a comment
      You can dial down the current, no problem. You would want the program cable. Follow this guide
      https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...shd-mid-drives

      Default has ludi at 25 which is actually a 50A peak due to how this controller is modded. Do not put it above 25 if it's a ludicrous. For street legal on a ludi you would want it at like 14.

    • kja
      kja commented
      Editing a comment
      thanks very much.

    On to the chain ring failure -

    Q: I'm about to buy a replacement Eclipse, as it appears to be the stock chainring on my Low and Fatty Wolf (with Ludicrous, purchased a few weeks ago). The stock is 42T. I see in the description that 48T is optimized for top speed. After learning to use the gears and understanding the criticality of keeping it in the lowest gear practical for the speed I'm going (to allow the motor to spin faster and not get as hot), I think it's worth taking the opportunity to go with 48T...if it fits. The catch is that the cog is a mere millimeter from the post leading to the rear axle. I recall seeing it with minimal clearance here when it was new so it's not a result of being bent and that's fine it worked great until I caused it to bend, just wondering if the OD of the 48T is signfiicantly larger than 42T? If it is, it probably won't fit without a bit of dremeling which can be done (assuming you don't reply telling me it's a bad idea) but wondering if you could tell me the difference in diameters between 42T and 48T so I know how much bigger it will be.

    --Here's my theory on root cause:

    I rode bikes for 2 hours every day as a kid and rode a 375W "Charger" e-bike for a few years after they were bought and shut down by GM in 2006ish. So I'm new to high-speed high-torque e-bikes but not new to bikes. I chose to get Ludicrous knowing full well that I was taking on the risk of failures due to lack of experience and I accept that risk. Some of the older references to Ludicrous mention that early on Luna only sold it to friends and repeat customers. After learning to ride it, I understand why. A new rider needs to approach it gently and with caution. After a couple more months of use, I would like to summarize my "Lessons Learned" with this bike for others in a similar situation (lack of experience with high power) in the hopes of preventing them from having the same failures. Documentation is available from Luna but I don't recall seeing a simple bullet-point summary for new riders listing the biggest risks (e. g. Cardinal Rule: Use the gears and stay in the lowest gear appropriate for your speed.) If it were OK with Luna, this summary could be shared somewhere Ludicrous buyers would see, along with my 5-star review for Luna and the bike.

    Anyway, sorry for the long-windedness but it's relevant. The point is my experience with bikes so far has been at lower speeds and lower torques where shifting gears without letting up on the torque hasn't been an issue. I never recall failing a cog or chain ring although my old road bike skips and could be on track for a similar failure. Add Ludicrous to the mix and it drives the point home that the torque must be low to shift gears without stripping. It stands to reason with my past biking experience I would make the mistake of not being gentle enough (I take full responsiblity, just trying to explain root cause).

    One ride prior to today's chainring failure, I discovered that the chain was skipping due to smallest (11T) cog teeth being very worn. I believe this was caused by using this gear at too-low speeds for the first part of my very first ride (before feeling the BBSHD, finding it almost hot to touch, and subsequently checking its temperature obsessively - it's still running great) and/or shifting under too much torque. I ordered the gear sensor installed but it only seems to help to a degree and there are other factors (may or may not be related - PAS lasts a second or so longer than when I stop pedaling) so I still have a learning curve on how to reduce torque while shifting.

    My hard shifting -> stripping the rear cogs -> in turn I believe this led to bending and wear on the chainring. Watching it spin, it's definitely out of alignment. This eventually failed a tooth.

    Or so I believe.

    --What I should do to prevent recurrence:

    Replace chainring and cassette. Learn how to minimize the torque before shifting. Stay in lowest gear practical for the given speed.

    Q: I believe it's that simple but wanted a second opinion on whether it's that simple or whether it seems likely that something else is going on that should be addressed.

    Q: Is it likely that the chain itself should be replaced due to being bent from being jammed between cog and frame when it failed?

    I take full responsibility for my actions and for these failures. From all indications, everything was in perfect condition out of the box so it's definitely rooted in how I rode it. Luna did an outstanding job designing a quality product at a remarkably low cost. I very much appreciate Luna bringing a high-powered e-bike within a price range that I can afford. Excited to get this fixed, gain experience shifting correctly, and look forward to many years of fun with this bike!

    Comment


    • paxtana
      paxtana commented
      Editing a comment
      I would not recommend going with 48t since it is already so close I'm not sure if it will fit, but if you don't mind potentially having to email us to return it I'm sure we could let you return it for refund if you end up needing the 48t, as long as it is still in brand new condition. Yes it is significantly larger diameter.

      You are welcome to leave a review on the listing for the bike recommending how to ride Ludi, we actually send out a review request 1 month after the purchase so you can reply with info, pictures, even video and shows up on the listing if approved. Adding more info to the listing is problematic but also something we could look into. We do have an intro document linked from these listings explaining how to ride it https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...n-introduction

      Shifting while under power can be problematic, sure. The gearsensor helps, as does knowing how to ride it. Yes you probably want to replace chainring and cassette, a new chain couldn't hurt either, they are fairly cheap. Or at least give it some lube and a cleaning since it is fairly dirty, and dirt can also have an impact.

    • Squeamish
      Squeamish commented
      Editing a comment
      Thinking some more, I think it's safe to assume the width of a tooth is constant between chainrings in order to accommodate the standard chain size. My 42T sprocket has a radius of ~90 mm. Doing the math, that would put the radius of a 48T sprocket at 103 mm. Looking down at the sprocket, with a little clearance, that would require grinding off over half my frame post so that's a no-go. Even if I added two spacers, it would require grinding close to half of my frame post so that's also a no-go, and I'd be concerned about making the angle between front sprocket and rear cogs at low gear being more severe. I went ahead and ordered another 42T Eclipse. Thanks for the quick reply!

    • Squeamish
      Squeamish commented
      Editing a comment
      Replaced chainring and cassette but the rear cogs ramping up the same failure mode - starting to skip and slide over the gears.

      Question 1: Tried to mitigate the skipping by stopping pedaling so the PAS shuts off prior to shifting gears. The PAS shuts off about a second after I stop pedaling. I've realized this could be either the primary cause or a contributing factor. My gear sensor does work but I'm wondering if it shuts the motor off a wee bit too late to prevent damage. Is it normal for the PAS to wait a full second or so after I stop pedaling to shut off? If it is normal, is there a way to change the delay or sensitivity? Glad to buy the programming cable if needed.

      Question 2: Is a heavier duty cassette available that fits on this bike with the same small size for the smallest gear? This would not address the root cause but it could potentially prevent recurrence even with root cause unknown. I was sad to see the cassette is only $20 - I recognize this is Shimano, good quality, and probably optimal for the bike, but I would love to pay a lot more for something that lasts many times longer, ending up costing less in the long run. :)

      I was extra careful to shift gently for the 3 hours I've ridden it since replacing parts. That said, my theory on root cause is no longer hard shifting.

      FWIW here's a summary of what has happened since my post a month ago:

      --Opened the BBSHD secondary to see why it had become noisy. Discovered the act of freewheeling it due to lack of other quick options to drain the batteries down from 100% caused all the grease to migrate outward and no longer be on the gear, due to centrifugal force. Since I had to regrease it anyway, I ordered the Mobilgrease 28 recommended to prevent damage to the nylon gear should it ever migrate through to it, brushed off all the stock grease, and heavily greased the secondary with the Mobilgrease 28.

      --Discovered the replacement chainring has a spacing between ring and mounting flange about 5 mm different than the stock chainring. Ordered 3X 2 mm spacers from Hi Power Cycle (Luna was out of stock) and installed them.

      --Rode about 3 hours and started to observe the same cog degradation ramping up as it did prior to the first chainring failure. Already had a third cassette ordered by the time this happened, knowing a repeat failure was likely. Going to try a lower PAS or maybe throttle only to try to isolate root cause but hard to say if root cause will be identified before it fails again. Will stop riding before it gets close to the point where chainring failed the first time.

      --Checked the derailleur positioning and discovered it had stretched some more. Readjusted it. Discovered the cause of my troubles readjusting it after the first failure - the smallest cog is closer to its neighbor than the distance between all the others. I then discovered what the two little screws are for - to set the top and bottom stopping points for the derailleur. I adjusted the cable to match positions of gears 1-7 and then turned this screw pretty much all the way in so it matches gear 8 at the bottom. Not sure if this misalignment with the bottom gear only would cause skipping on other gears - I did hear some on a lower gear during that ride as well as most on the highest gear - but it could be a chain reaction where the misalignment at highest gear (or my attempting to align highest gear as well as all the rest causing misalignment at other gears) caused perhaps more cable stretch which in turn perhaps caused skipping at lower gears. If this could be the primary cause, I'd be home free.

      I have not had a chance to ride since I readjusted the derailleur this second time.

      In a nutshell, the cause(s) could be one or more of the following:

      --PAS stopping a wee bit too late for the shift (even when stopping pedaling just before shifting)
      --Derailleur cable stretch, typical for a new bike and also potentially caused by highest gear being a little closer to other gears
      --Ludi being a LOT of power to put through the tiny highest gear. This will be partially mitigated as I get more into the habit of always downshifting as I slow down and upshifting as I speed up. I did this for most of this ride but at one point was debating if, in the interest of minimizing gear degradation, it's more important to minimize shifting or minimize force on the higher gears. I may have stressed the smaller cogs more than intended at this point. Moving forward, I assume it's the latter so will try to shift every time I accelerate and decelerate.
      --Originally, my hard shifting, but that doesn't apply to this second round of skipping

      Feedback on which is/are the most likely cause is appreciated.

      As an aside, I fully intend on writing a 5-star review for this bike but I'm waiting until I gain more experience with it. I can easily speak to the outstanding quality, service, and speed of ordering Luna has provided. What I'm waiting on is I want to write up a "Lessons Learned" of sorts to help prevent future Ludi customers from having the same type of failures I have. Mentioning things like avoid getting your BBSHD hotter than 140F for an extended period of time. 140F as I measured with a temperature gun, equates to holding your hand on it for about 2 seconds before feeling the urgent need to remove it. Once the failure stops recurring, I should be able to speak to its causes and will have enough info to provide a meaningful "Lessons Learned".

    I'm troubleshooting a 48V advanced Luna Mini Charger. The open circuit voltage I get at the connector is 42.2V. Is this normal for a 48V charger?

    Comment


    • paxtana
      paxtana commented
      Editing a comment
      Probably needs replacement.

    Originally posted by scottfree View Post
    I'm troubleshooting a 48V advanced Luna Mini Charger. The open circuit voltage I get at the connector is 42.2V. Is this normal for a 48V charger?
    Sounds like you may have a 36V charger.

    Comment


      I haven't had much time to enjoy my brand new eBike. I've charged the battery to 100% twice so far so I want to do 2-4 more 100% charges to break it in. I'm leaving town so the battery won't be used for well over a week. Is it ok to long store a 13.5ah battery with 48.7 volts left in it? The table in the charger manual indicates that's around 40% charge. Should I discharge even more?

      Comment


      • pure_mahem
        pure_mahem commented
        Editing a comment
        That's a good spot to leave it. They ship at about that percentage or at least mine did, both of them.

      hello. is the 860c display universal or only for specific parts? thanks

      Comment


      • paxtana
        paxtana commented
        Editing a comment
        Definitely not universal, it is for bbshd, BBS02 and bbs01. Maybe it will work with others but I doubt it, unless whatever it is you are asking about was specifically designed to work with bafang bbsxx displays.

      Hi, do you have a controller for mid motor kit bafang BBS02 750w lastest version (B)? I see on your website only the old version (A).

      Comment


      • paxtana
        paxtana commented
        Editing a comment
        Looks like we have sold out of version B, may be 3-4 weeks before we get more, sorry.

      Hello! What is the approximate range using throttle only of the current Luna Folding bike with the 12ah battery and BBS02? And what speed would it be calculated at? I saw the "independent review" which used the older version with a 6ah battery on flat course at around 16 mph that got like 24 miles range but I would assume that the changes would make it different.

      Comment


      • paxtana
        paxtana commented
        Editing a comment
        If tested under the same conditions as that original review, a battery with double the capacity should have double the range.

      • intramorph
        intramorph commented
        Editing a comment
        Yeah I mean it would depend on how you use the throttle. Is it full throttle at all times or what PAS level you're using
        but more or less like Paxtana mentioned if you use it under the same conditions the 12AH will give you twice the range of the
        6ah mini battery.

      I'd love to be able to view the programming of my ASI BAC800, and maybe tweak a few things. But apparently I need a password for the bluetooth connection. Is there any way around this? Perhaps wiring up some sort of usb connection via the RX and TX pins?

      Comment


      • paxtana
        paxtana commented
        Editing a comment
        The controller is locked down, as it says on the listing.

      • nowholeself
        nowholeself commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks for the response. You're incorrect, though. I found a version of Bacdoor for Windows online and wired up a USB. Pin 19 = RX. Pin 20 = TX. Pin 24 = ground. I fixed my throttle issue in a manner of seconds by simply increasing the 'throttle off voltage' by just a tiny bit. So the unit I have is definitely not "locked down."

      • paxtana
        paxtana commented
        Editing a comment
        That's news to me.. thanks for the info.

      Is there going to be more black Luna wolf batteries in stock soon?

      Comment

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