Referring to the double torque hub motor offered by Luna Cycle, at what battery voltage would the max power output be 650 watts (or slightly below)? I plan to make my own battery out of smaller cells, so would it be possible to use a battery with a nonstandard battery voltage with this system? Lastly, I feel that Xiongda's efficiency data would not be entirely accurate for the rewired motor, so does anyone have an estimate of the peak motor efficiency at 650 watt power? Thank you.
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I have a custom-built cargo bike frame with a very shallow downtube angle. It also has a kickstand. I borrowed a BBS01 (250W, 36v) that just barely fits between the two, like without a millimeter to spare (I actually had to grind off a tiny bit of the kickstand. Does the BBS02 have the same form-factor, or is it a larger diameter motor case? Is there any danger to having the kickstand right up against the unit, or does there need to be some amount of clearance?Comment
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It will probably fit.
If you still have the bbs01 installed and want to be sure, you can just install a bbs02 controller into the bbs01 and you're good to go. This is described on our bbs02 controller page if you want to give it a shot https://lunacycle.com/products.php?p...ontroller-3077
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With Luna's pedal kit, does the rear sprocket need to be changed to a smaller size like the video:
Or does it use the original larger gear with for more torque ?- picture on the site shows the original gear with the pedal kit. Also, with the smaller rear gear will the top speed be faster ?
And when will Luna have this kit or the bike's with the kit installed again - I saw the option just yesterday and now its gone.
Thanks - T.Comment
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hello I was wondering because I have the luna advanced charger and recently bought a battery that came with xlr connector. Wanted to know if it's possible to make an xlr-male to xt60 female because it's what i would need to use my charger with that battery. I noticed you guys have XLR-Female to XT60-Male. I need the exact opposite of that. Thanks in advance for all your help Luna =)Comment
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I was interested in getting the BBS02 blow-out sale kit that comes with a 48V battery: https://lunacycle.com/bafang-bbs02-kit/
Is this special still ongoing? I found it on Google but didn't see a direct link to it on the site.
Alternatively, it seems like all the 48v batteries are out of stock. Any time I try to select one it gives the message at the top saying it's unavailable. Any ETA when you'll get 48v shark packs back in stock?Comment
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Cyclone 3000 Chainring:
I just ordered a Cyclone 3000 Kit. The Triple Chainring is not available or I would have ordered that for the gearing allowed by the 32 tooth inner sprocket. This kit is going on a single speed cargo trike that needs to be geared lower than the stock 42/42 chainring allows.
Question: Can the inner 42 tooth chainring be replaced with an aftermarket BCD 104/36T chainring? If not then what other options might there be?
Thanks,
William
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I've been seeing many different pages that mention "pumping more watts through" your motor. Things about upgrading from a 10 or 15a controller to a 20a controller will give you more watts and power on a 250w motor.
So which of the next two statements are incorrect? It can't be both from what I see. Either;
A. This motor, rated to draw equal to or less than 13.4A can somehow have amps "pushed" into it and draw more when hooked up to a controller than when connected directly to power.
OR
B. When connected directly to a power source and under no load this motor will "run away" and keep going faster, drawing more amps, and eventually overheating. It will surpass the 13.4A it draws with a stalled spindle.
Everything I know about DC motors tells me otherwise and a 15a controller is already more than nessicary. A 30a controller hooked up to a ammeter then the motor should still show the same amps, right?Comment
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This place is more for the Luna guys to respond but I'll throw my .02 in and they can either correct or throw it away! =]
Some points:
These are three-phase DC motors so the statement "When connected directly to a power source" is not terribly meaningful in this context, it must be connected to a source that generates variable amplitude and frequency three-phase power
Current expressed in the context of ebikes is unlike DC motor industry in that when folks here talk about current, they are talking about battery current which is better related to motor power than motor current since the controller applies varying voltage amplitude but the battery is fairly constant
In [ideal] DC motors speed is proportional to the amplitude of the motor applied voltage and torque is proportional to the amplitude of the motor applied current which as mentioned is totally different than the battery current we speak of here
So the speed of the [ideal] DC motor is limited by the voltage regardless of how much or little torque (motor current) it takes - it is limited only by the controllers ability to supply voltage and in general the maximum the controller can supply will typically be the battery voltage
Now for the fun part... the battery current that we all speak of here does not mean the same thing as the torque (motor current) but like voltage, most of the controllers we use likely (I don't know this for sure) limit the maximum motor current (torque) to the maximum battery current
What practically limits the current in the controller is typically the output drivers power dissipation (heat) which in the ebike world are going to be MOSFET's and in the motor it is I2R dissipation (heating) of the windings
If you replace a 30A controller with a 60A controller your maximum speed doesn't change but the maximum power doubles since the power applied to the motor = Ibat · Vbat ·η (η = controller efficiency) - i.e. the maximum torque doubled and the maximum speed is the same and power from the motor = torque * RPM
The maximum power that can be applied by a controller that limits the maximum output current, like I'm presuming here but can't verify, is proportional to the speed - i.e. if you are running at half the maximum motor speed you won't get more than half the power at full speed
Another way of looking at it is that doubling your controller current capability only doubles the maximum torque at any given speed thereby doubling the maximum power at any given speed
Hope this helps your understanding!
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I believe polyphase systems exist only in Alternating Current systems. Direct current has no applicable phase. Pulse width?
How many wires do the motor your speaking of use?
At what point are we applying current to the motor, and not a load to the controller?
And directly wiring your motor to your battery will not result in full motor power? The amplitude of dc is measured in volts, usually. PWM is measured in ON time percentage. Are these motors actually AC and the controllers are converters?
How does a dc motor change how much amps it draws without changing windings or voltage? Its sounding like the 30a controller was not allowing the motor to draw its max measured 13.4 amps. What if you wired directly to a battery, capacitor, or switching power supply with a 60 available max amps?Comment
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The e-bike motors are all three-phase DC and there are three wires and they are driven with three phase "AC" power. The distinction between the terminology regarding AC vs. DC when it comes to polyphase motors is that an "AC motor" pretty much always implies induction motors which are very different beasts than a DC polyphase motor. E.g. an "AC motor" has very low static torque (0 RPM) and needs to be turning some considerable RPM before much torque is practical because it relies on the rotating magnetic field produced by the stator to induce a magnetic field in the rotor whereas a "DC motor" generally has a fair bit of static torque since the rotor generally has a permanent field either by the use of permanent magnets (ebikes for sure) or an electrically driven field. Voltage is generally constant in an AC motor and to change the speed you change frequency instead of voltage (although the frequency changes on DC too it is driven by the change in voltage). With a variable speed AC motor current isn't proportional to torque like it is in a DC motor.
Noodle on that a bit and you might find it answers the other questions sort of or makes them not terribly meaningful...
BTW "stepper motors" are also DC motors and still require an AC drive albeit 2-phase (some will say four but depending on how you look at things it's just two)...Last edited by AZguy; 03-29-2018, 03:19 PM. -
Another thing comes to mind here....
Old school DC motors used brushes. Think of the brushless commutating as a very low tech controller - the brushes commutating take the DC and turn it onto two phase AC to drive the rotor....
Gawd I'd give myself a like for that =]
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Okay thanks that cleared things up. I was hearing some weird things and thinking brushed dc motors. What you've explained is definitely a motor with three field or "phase" windings. I've heard of something like a 3 phase ac(arguably at the time as well) motor being driven by three legs of timed pwm dc(also arguable whether it was still dc) driving it in some electric cars.
So all this is nil as long as I stick to brushed and 2 wire Chinese dc motors, then it doesn't matter if I'm driving it with a cheap Chinese dc pwm board with max 15 or 30 amps with a <15a motor, as I had grew up believing. Also if it matters, I think I'm working with a MY1016Z2. And I'm not building a bike I'm fabricating a children's quad.Comment
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Sure but not too many folks go with brushed motors these days. Permanent magnet DC are far more efficient and reliable, less weight and more available in the powers and size we are looking at, and generally create a *lot* less EMI. Once you get your head wrapped around the controllers your life may turn into sunshine and daisies!
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Hi all,
Im interested in one of those 3 bikes you produce:
- Lunar Crusher 3
- Lunar Crusher 2
- Lunar Crusher 2 (2018 edition)
Questions:
I couldnt find out what the difference between those 3 versions of the Luna Chrusher are. Is it the motor , or the suspension, or the battery, or all 3 components?
What would be also interesting to know is how fast do they drive and if they drive faster then 45 kmph (i live in Europe/Germany) is there a option to limit the speed to 45 kmph, because faster electric bikes arent allowed on the road in germany, sadly.
I also couldnt find anything on the average range of your, i think it was 52v Panasonic GA 24ah Fusion Pack battery (Luna Crusher 2)? How far can i drive with the Luna Crusher 2 (2018) on the highest pedal assist mode before the battery is empty on average and how far can i drive in throttle only mode without peddeling at all, before the battery is empty?
The last question would be about shipping and taxes. I tried to order the Luna Crusher 2 on your side and it showed me shipping costs of 750 dolllars ! Is there the tax already included or do i have to pay additional money/tax when the product arives. And where does the product arrive? Does it get deliverd to my door step or do i have to drive maybe a few 100 miles to collect it from some freight depo?
Thx for reading through all of this.Last edited by infoseeker; 03-30-2018, 10:48 AM.Comment
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They are different base bike models. See the listing for links to the bike itself. Yes any bike used with bbshd can do over 45kmph. Yes a speed limit can be set in display or controller.
Range depends on too many factors to provide a simple answer that is accurate in all circumstances. What power level you have it set for, gear you have it in, terrain features and what speed you are riding in etc. One thing I can say is this battery has at least double the capacity of the average ebike on the market today.
Were you ordering to Germany? We can ship kits to germany but we do not ship prebuilt ebikes overseas as they tend to get banged up.
If you do order a kit please note kits with batteries need to go ocean freight as stated on our shipping info page https://lunacycle.com/shipping/
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Hi!
I have couple of questions about bbshd:
Is there any hardware difference between 750w and hot rod versions or it is just a matter of programming?
Some of your bikes have Ludicrous mode but I couldn't find the motor in the shop. As I understand, you sell it only with your bikes. Is it just different controller (controller tweak) or some changes is the motor itself? Can I buy it?Last edited by Andrey_msk; 03-30-2018, 12:57 PM.Comment
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Hi, 750w versus hotrod is just changing the maximum current controller setting to the highest it will go. Ludicrous is just the controller, physically modified to put out more current than the hardcoded maximum the controller allows.
Ludicrous is only available on our bikes, it is exclusive to the higher-end Luna bikes. -
Ok, thank you!
So hardware can eat 2-3 kWts it is a matter of controller.
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Thx for the quick answer.
So are the 750 dollar shipping cost to europe based on the kit?
Is the kit preinstalled or do i have to route the cables for myself and have to install the motor and battery holder myself into the bike?
What about additional taxes , the order masc said "tax : 0" does that mean that i have to pay overall 750 dollar additional, or do i have to pay ontop of that the for my country normal + 19 % tax ontop of that if the product arrives?
And do you deliver the bike kit to my doorstep/house or do i have to drive to a freight depo?
Do you send extra batterys to europe if my battery is done after a few years and is the bike compatible / upgradeable to newer more powerfull batterys in a few years from now or do i have to buy a new bike then, if i want to have a more powerfull battery?
Thx for the info.Comment
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The shipping cost is irrelevant as we do not ship bikes there.. It is automatically calculated because the store software is not intelligent enough to restrict the order on a per-country basis. If a bike is ordered overseas it will unfortunately have to be refunded.
The kit is simply a kit. We sell the same equipment we build the ebikes from as BBSHD is the best ebike kit on the market.
The kit is available here https://lunacycle.com/bafang-bbshd-1000w-middrive-kit/ Several batteries are available on the listing as well, with many more available in the battery section. The kit will work with 48v and 52v batteries.
Customer is responsible for any taxes or customs clearance fees if having it shipped to another country.
If you order a kit it will go via a standard shipping company and will be delivered directly to your doorstep after you pay customs fees.
If you order a kit with battery it has to go via ocean freight but they will delivered directly to your door, although typically in these examples they will contact you to schedule delivery after customs fees are paid.
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I have a Luna Dolphin Battery cradle and I need to replace the wires that come out of the cradle. What gauge wire is appropriate and what connectors are needed to attach the wires (that run to the controller) to the other side of the two-pronged connector?Comment
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14 gauge wire is fine. You can make the connection using these https://lunacycle.com/luna-solder-sleeve-variety-pack/
Personally I would just cut off the connector on both the cradle and controller and use the above solder sleeves to hardwire it. Having a connector there just adds an extra potential point of failure and the cradle is its own connector so it's kind of unnecessary except for the ability to do a quick installation.
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Thx for the answer, but.....
Who wants to route all the cables themself and build it up from the ground with every screw, themself ?
So its flx trail then, at least they seem to be able to send complete bikes to europe and are over 1000 dollar cheaper.And their shipping to europe costs only 200 dollar. Sure their battery is not as large but thats not worth + 1000 dollar if i just can buy a additional 2nd battery from FLX for 500 dollar.Comment
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