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X1 Enduro: to Ludicrous or not to Ludicrous?

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    X1 Enduro: to Ludicrous or not to Ludicrous?

    That is the question. Hi folks, I'm new here. I have two X1's on order, but thinking to cancel the Ludicrous option. I'm coming from a 250W e-MTB that I felt was good enough for me for the most part. Steeper big mountain climbs, and it's a bit of a workout still. I think 500 watts would be fine. However, what's more important to me is natural peddle feel with linear power output. It seems that with or without the Ludicrous option, 1/9 and 2/9 is clunky and puts out barely any power. Then 3/9 just seems to be a large jump in power. I really like being in the lower power modes for the most part, and do a lot more peddling. For me, putting out 200 watts of my own power is what I'm looking for, and to match another 100 to 200 watts from the bike is sufficient for most of my riding. Would the non-Ludicrous version have more of a natural peddle feel? Or does the torque sensor or PAS just suck in either version?

    Has anyone re-flashed the stock Bafang firmware? If so, did it feel more natural to you? Much thanks!


    #2
    Lots of people who have purchased the BESST and flashed the 14.6 have had positive feedback. From what I was told it’s “the way it should be”.

    im personally going with the Luda and getting the BESST to flash over the 14.6 and make PAS 1 & 2 more natural. Like you I don’t want the on/off unnatural response.

    Comment


      #3
      Welcome to the forum. The question has been ask/answered a few times with big threads on each, so plenty of reading out there already.

      A couple of key points:

      You (reportedly) can't easily add the ludi option afterward, so something you'd want to consider if you ever plan to want more power. Though if you were generally happy with 250W, then the base 750W option would likely still be fine. I'm finding that with the ludi option and the 'crappy' 14.5 firmware, level 1 and 2 don't do a whole lot, in 3 the bike wakes up and has a good amount of power, 4 and 5 seem to be a small additional boost in power above that, but the battery drains remarkably fast and in level 5 will trip an undervolt and lock out if the battery gets down to ~30-35% .

      It's also been mentioned that the ludi option doesn't necessarily add speed, but does add torque. So if you do an insane amount of steep hill climbing, it might be worth a look. The converse of that statement is that if you were to swap out the stock 38T front chain ring for something bigger... 40T fits fine, 42T is a very close fit to the frame...then the extra torque could be turned into extra speed.

      As far as firmware, it seems 14.6 is the way to go. You can either get the bike, then buy the $100 programmer, upgrade the firmware yourself, then use the programmer as a paperweight, or (it has been mentioned) request the bike be sent with 14.6 firmware when you order it.

      Comment


        #4
        Well said K442...

        Since the X1 (Ludi or Not) at 14.5 and 14.6 has speed cut-off limitations (apparently the earlier non-ludi's with 14.4 did not and it was very smooth).
        All the Ludi mod does (with 14.5 and 14.6) is provide the extra torque arrive to the to the party or top speed quicker...
        A concept no different than putting a speed governor on a new Z06 Vette and 1987 Honda Civic....if both cars have governors set at 50mph max, the Vette 650hp will probably (ya think?) reach that limitation quicker, if the tires aren't melted off.

        Seems that it wasn't figured out until late Summer 2020 that X1 owners should've used the bikes bar tools/displays to learn what firmware release they had.
        Many of the posts back then sounded very confused regarding why their bikes didn't perform the same as the next persons bike, hahahahaha...

        Bottom line, it all starts with the intended use of the bike....I really enjoy my Ludi, but my use might be different than 95% of X1 owners.

        The real trick woud be to get a hold of that 14.4 firmware file and load that onto a Ludi bike.....
        Last edited by KTMracer63; 04-04-2021, 05:22 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          I'm happy I did the Ludi mod when I ordered, the hill climbing on those short but steep hills are now sooooooo easy! But the 14.5 firmware is, well not too good I'll say. In PAS 3 when you initially put torque on the pedal, the motor spins up for 2-3 seconds like a little boost of power then it settles out, but I was at the bottom of a steep downhill, decided to turn around and climb out this nice progressively steeper line up and out. As I turned and went to go between two little trees to continue turning towards the out, that little "boost" of initial power almost made me whack a tree as I was not ready or expecting it. Tracking shows my tuner arriving here tuesday night and I have 14.6 and the software all cued up. The 14.5 in real woods and trail situations where you might be riding slow and have to pick lines through trees and obstacles, would not be too good IMO. Out on the open trails and bike ways, sure it is adequate.

          Comment


          • KTMracer63
            KTMracer63 commented
            Editing a comment
            that's awesome, you're going to dig it....I intentionally spent about 2 days on the 14.5 just get a feel for what most have been complaining about...will put it this way, 14.6 is going to make you grin way more ear to ear.
            Last edited by KTMracer63; 04-04-2021, 06:16 PM.

          #6

          https://youtu.be/YvK6hMIpDUI
          Last edited by 2wheelsanything; 04-04-2021, 03:28 PM.

          Comment


            #7
            Apologize for the newb post. I was told (by the seller, a local bike shop) that my X1 has ludicrous mode, but I don't know how to confirm that or how to use it. I've read this manual:

            https://bradland.github.io/unofficia...isplay-manual/

            and it says:

            Boost Mode

            Note: Since all versions of the X-1 are equipped with a throttle, this feature is made moot by the ability to simply press the throttle lever.

            Boost mode allows you to exceed the drive’s 25 MPH (40 km/h) PAS limiter. This feature allows the rider to use full motor power temporarily, bypassing the limit. To initiate boost mode, start by pedaling to 25 MPH. Press Up repeatedly until the Boost Mode Icon (pictured below) appears. Press and hold the Boost / ON-OFF button. You should feel the motor assist you beyond 25 MPH. To terminate boost mode, release the Boost / ON-OFF button.
            Click image for larger version  Name:	Main%20-%20Assist%20-%20Boost%20Mode%20Icon.jpg Views:	0 Size:	6.3 KB ID:	146606


            I have tried this, and no "Boost Mode Icon" appears.

            This is the controller and the screen on my bike:

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            Attached Files

            Comment


              #8
              X1 Ludi and boost mode are entirely different things.
              Ludi controllers on the X1 effectively are just doubling the power for each PAS level. There are probably more details in the long X1 KB thread here: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...s-ebike-manual

              Boost mode is kludgy but is a way to temporarily accelerate with assistance beyond the built-in speed limit. Most people AFAIK don't bother with it b/c it's kind of kludgy to engage while riding...

              Comment


                #9
                Originally posted by rtp View Post
                X1 Ludi and boost mode are entirely different things.
                Ludi controllers on the X1 effectively are just doubling the power for each PAS level. There are probably more details in the long X1 KB thread here: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...s-ebike-manual

                Boost mode is kludgy but is a way to temporarily accelerate with assistance beyond the built-in speed limit. Most people AFAIK don't bother with it b/c it's kind of kludgy to engage while riding...
                Thanks, yeah. When I bought it, the shop told me the thing about pedaling at 26 mph, pressing the + button multiple times "to get to Ludicrous mode" (which also sounds like the instructions to get to "Boost Mode." But, nothing in particular seems to happen when I do that.

                From what you're saying, and from some of the other posts, Ludicrous is there all the time at all speeds, just doubling your torque. The Admin paxtana says you have to use a watt meter to really know if the bike has Ludicrous? https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...on-how-to-test
                Last edited by cmc4130; 01-14-2022, 08:56 AM.

                Comment


                  #10
                  Originally posted by mililani View Post
                  That is the question. Hi folks, I'm new here. I have two X1's on order, but thinking to cancel the Ludicrous option. I'm coming from a 250W e-MTB that I felt was good enough for me for the most part. Steeper big mountain climbs, and it's a bit of a workout still. I think 500 watts would be fine. However, what's more important to me is natural peddle feel with linear power output. It seems that with or without the Ludicrous option, 1/9 and 2/9 is clunky and puts out barely any power. Then 3/9 just seems to be a large jump in power. I really like being in the lower power modes for the most part, and do a lot more peddling. For me, putting out 200 watts of my own power is what I'm looking for, and to match another 100 to 200 watts from the bike is sufficient for most of my riding. Would the non-Ludicrous version have more of a natural peddle feel? Or does the torque sensor or PAS just suck in either version?

                  Has anyone re-flashed the stock Bafang firmware? If so, did it feel more natural to you? Much thanks!
                  I noticed the same thing as the text in red, except right now mine is set to 5 levels, not 9. Level 1 and 2 don't do very much at all. Then Level 3 is a huge boost. Then Levels 4 and 5 aren't that much far beyond 3. So, what ends up happening is I ride it in Level 3 most of the time, and for technical sections, I sometimes have to brake and pedal at the same time, just to keep control of the Level 3 power. I was told that dealers can hook up a box and re-set some of these levels. I've ridden a few other e-MTBs (Norco, Pivot, etc.) that have the more common Eco, Trail and Boost settings and those are definitely more predictable and balanced. On my Luna, Level 3 has substantially more power than other bikes in Boost mode.

                  Comment


                    #11
                    Originally posted by cmc4130 View Post

                    I noticed the same thing as the text in red, except right now mine is set to 5 levels, not 9. Level 1 and 2 don't do very much at all. Then Level 3 is a huge boost. Then Levels 4 and 5 aren't that much far beyond 3. So, what ends up happening is I ride it in Level 3 most of the time, and for technical sections, I sometimes have to brake and pedal at the same time, just to keep control of the Level 3 power. I was told that dealers can hook up a box and re-set some of these levels. I've ridden a few other e-MTBs (Norco, Pivot, etc.) that have the more common Eco, Trail and Boost settings and those are definitely more predictable and balanced. On my Luna, Level 3 has substantially more power than other bikes in Boost mode.
                    Search for info on how to update firmware to 14.6 for a lot of reading....

                    Comment


                      #12
                      So, I came across this Lunacycle 860c display walkthrough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al2ICgJnZ9w and learned how to get into the settings. With this display, it's not "hold down + and -, it is double click on the "M" button.

                      I switched the Assist Levels from 5 to 9. I also changed the Bike Mode from Eco to Sport. What I noticed with the 9-number scale was that 1, 2, 3, and 4, were still lower power, kind of dragging, then 5 is the big jump (sort of like 3 is on the 1-5 scale).

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