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Need help deciding between Luna X1 or Apollo

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    Need help deciding between Luna X1 or Apollo

    Hi All,

    Im looking to get a EMTB and i think i have settled on Luna for best value, and now I need A little help deciding between a X1 or a Apollo.

    a little about me:

    Im mid 50's, 6'5", ~290lbs, grossly out of shape (embarrassingly). I have bad knees and am looking into biking as a low impact way to get out and moving again.

    I bought a used Trek Stache 8 hardtail (XL) about a year ago but rarely ride it for a couple reasons, 1) I don't find it super comfortable to ride, 2) haven't been on a bike in like 20 years so just the act of riding is not super comfortable yet, and i think the biggest reason is 3) because im out of shape i dont get far which has been discouraging me from riding. Im hoping a EMTB will allow me to go further making the ride more enjoyable which will get me out on it more regularly. I am extremely fortunate to live within a mile of Folsom lake which has a lot of paved roads and trails i could be riding on so i want to take advantage of that.

    I would mostly be riding in the neighborhoods and paved/simple trails in order to gain more comfortability with riding bikes again, then slowly progress to more trails riding around the lake. Maybe some rare commuting or running to the grocery store or other such errands.

    only MTB experience i have is riding my Stache 8, and i also recently took a Obrea Wild for a test ride at a LBS. the XL frame seemed to fit OK, and it was a lot of fun to ride...but man, that $7k price tag >.<

    I was also able to ride the Obrea up a small hill (that i would not have been able to ride up manually), and it pushed me up that hill relatively effortlessly.

    Questions:
    1. Why are there no reviews on the Apollo? there seem to be a lot of youtube reviews for the X1 but not a single one for the Apollo?
    2. would one be better over the other to handle a guy my size?
    3. Seems like the Apollo is more bike than i need, but seems like its only about $700 more than the X1, $4900 vs $4200 after upgrades( Ludi, 860 Display and Silent treatment), seems on paper the Apollo is the better value?
    4. i also like that the Apollo is made here in the USA, seems like a lot of the bad X1 reviews are due to issues arising from poor assembly in China? would saying the Apollo will arrive better assembled be a fair statement? i have zero experience working on bikes so this could be important to me.
    5. seems the X1 is a little more of a stealth emtb? that battery on the Apollo is just massive! would i need to consider this for riding in my area?
    6. it seems like a lot of the initial complaints about the X1 have been fixed, are there any outstanding issues on the Apollo? I read a review that mentioned, i think it was the 11th gear, was locked out on both the X1 and the Apollo, but has been fixed on the X1...has this been fixed on the Apollo?
    7. Also sounds like the Apollo might have more inventory before the X1 will
    Thanks in advance for any advise you guys can offer!
    Last edited by Nebakanezzar; 2 weeks ago.

    #2
    I'm 6'7", was 240 when I got my X-1, 230 now.

    It's a pretty great off road bike, and it will take me up hills that I'm afraid to come back down. The higher gear ratios make it a pretty good choice for heavy people like us - less stress on the chain. I've broken more than one chain with a Bafang Ultra, but so far none with the M600 and that huge rear sprocket.

    My wife wanted to join me on the trail rides, so I gave it to her, and I'm looking to get another X-1 or Apollo.

    It's really a tossup for me - the light weight and stealth of the X-1 are heavily in it's favor, especially on old forest service roads where I'm constantly lifting the bike over obstacles.

    On the other hand, that huge battery on the Apollo is attractive for all day rides, as is the higher end components and finish.

    I think it's going to come down to the Apollo being in stock first. I can always get another X-1 later if I don't like it as much.

    One concern - the rear suspension on the X-1 is about at it's limit with my weight - not sure if the Apollo has a higher rating?

    My only other advice is to get a nice comfortable seat, and don't worry about people who give you a hard time for it. You'll ride a lot more.

    Comment


      #3
      Great info, thanks John!

      Comment


        #4
        Unfortunately, I can't speak to the Apollo, either, but will offer a few points about the X1.

        For reference, I am ~6'5", 220lb (was 250).

        What I do like about the X1 is that it does seem to run large for its rating. My daily 'workout' (non ebike) at a GT Avalanche XXL frame, but the X1 still feels bigger than the GT, so as far as size, I think you'd enjoy the X1. One key, though...X1, GT, Apollo...all of these seem to be a fairly 'racy' body position...arms stretched out, butt high in the air and shoulders down low. For someone just starting in biking, not sure how comfortable that would be over something with a more relaxed / upright body position. Though you could likely change the handlebars for a more relaxed ride if that becomes an issue.

        Battery wise, as mentioned somewhat above, the Apollo is bigger. My impression of the X1 is that it is definitely made to 'assist' a rider who is actively pedaling, vs the larger packs which are more geared toward doing all the work. Also consider the M600 motor on the X1 starts life rated for 500W, is hotrodded by luna to 750W, then further offered with a 2000W ludicrous upgrade...so ultimately operating at 4X rated power. That can be used for assist in short bursts, but if you're expecting to run 2000W continuous, you might start running into overheating the M600 pretty quick.

        On the silent gear - some seem to really like it, I don't find the steel gear to be that objectionable. Though the downside is that if you don't get the silent treatment up front, its a fairly involved DIY motor tear down to add it later. Also depending if you get the 'normal' bike or the ludicrous 2000w option - I somewhat question the integrity of a plastic gear carrying 2000w of power on a somewhat regular basis. Indeed a few failures have been reported, though surprisingly, only a couple. Not sure if those are just 'statistical anomalies' at this point or 'tip of the iceberg' and most 2KW/plastic gear setups are approaching failure at some point.

        The Apollo uses the Ultra (M620) motor, which I believe, starts at 1000W, then gets the 2000W hotrod treatment, so it's only operating at 2X rated capacity. The ultra also seems to have some DIY programming options, and is more of an open consumer format, whereas the M600/X1 is essentially locked down and proprietary...so if tuning and DIY work is of any consideration, the ultra would have the advantage there.

        Weight wise...congrats on taking the first step! Any activity is better than the couch. Having dropped 30lbs in the past several years, I can only offer that the biggest thing for me was a change in diet. The one piece of wisdom that stuck with me over the years is "You can't 'out exercise' a bad diet." When you start looking at the amount of calories, specifically calories from carbs, in a lot of 'normal' foods, it is amazingly high! You need to run 6-7 miles to 'work off' a typical fast-food lunch! The biggest thing for me was cutting out carbs and switching over to vegetables and sensible portions of meat. First 2-3 weeks were hell, but after getting past the headaches from sugar withdraw and starting to lose the first 5 lbs, I actually got into a bit of an 'upward' spiral where losing weight made me feel a bit more energetic, which made me get out and do more, which made me lose more weight, etc.

        Weight wise on the bikes...for reference, the rear shock on my X1 is labeled "275 psi max" and I run it at about 240-250 for my weight. (You'll definitely want to get a 300psi shock pump) I also see a lot of carbon frames listed as "100kg max rider weight" which would be 220 lbs. Though I think some of us definitely cheat and the specific e-bike frames seem to be a bit more heavily built, so probably some extra margin there.

        As you say, a lot of the early issues with the X1 seem to have been fixed... be sure you're getting the "14.6" firmware, I think they come with a 38 tooth front chain ring which is more in tune with what people expect vs the 32 tooth originally shipped. Not sure if the gear is still 'locked out' or not. Fairy simple to dial it back in if it is, but it's also a fairly tedious adjustment, so be prepared to make several trials and adjust screws by ~1/8 to 1/4 turn at a time. And, as always, go through and check all bolts, alignments and adjustments of the bike...I think this is true for any bike that is going to be shipped 'some assembly required' in a big box, regardless of USA or China origin.

        Overall, don't know that I've said much, but hopefully this will give a few additional points to consider.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks for the great feedback!

          Im curious, did you get the X1 with the XL frame or L frame? sounds like they wont be offering a XL frame moving forward.

          Thanks,

          Comment


            #6
            XL frame for me. It was one of the main factors in purchasing the X1, so would be sad if that is no longer an option.

            You can get somewhat of an idea how the frame 'stacks up' by grabbing the geometry chart from the luna web page. 170mm crank arms, plus the seat tube length, plus some amount of seat post and rise on the seat itself, then compare that to your inseam. I have a 36" inseam and have the seat at about 37.5" above the pedal, so still a bit longer considering yourinseam typically doesn't reach the floor, plus the thickness of the sole of a shoe.

            I think for general riding, you want your leg to extend pretty far with each pedal rotation, though obviously don't want to lock your knee fully straight at the bottom of the stroke. Though you can also 'cheat' a bit on an e-bike because you might not care about 'ideal' pedal efficiency, so you can have the seat lower and your legs in more of a continually 'bent' configuration.

            Comment

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