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My Ludi V2 X2

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    DHL Sucks.... and Crank Arms
    It's got to be said - DHL blows chunks. Ordered a $$ seat from overseas, paid for expedited shipping, to show between 7-9pm EST Monday night, get a text saying it's close/in neighborhood, go to web to track it and - shipment exception/unable to deliver. Funny as my Ring doorbell shows zero attempts. Called DHL pissed, they claimed they'd send a note to the driver to re-deliver, and you got it, nada. Called them again today, told them get it to <anywhere> so I can pick it up in person, as clearly their driver can't be bothered or trusted. So yeah, it's now 24 hours later and no one knows where the package is. Making it 'better,' I have another one claimed to be coming DHL for Wednesday - wanna bet how that one works out? Grr.

    But hey, I got some crank arms..and here they are.
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    Bafang 170mm on left, 150mm on right.

    Installed and moved pedals over with some anti-seize on the threads, then we did a ~16 mile ride, mostly bike/walking trails for today.
    Zero issues with the new wheels/hub, although some jogger decided to literally step right in front of me as I was passing her on the left, so got to feel how the new tires/wheels/brakes act under full lockup - no one hurt, but that was fun. Didn't check but guessing both ears with earbuds in......

    I was expecting to be able to feel the difference from the shortened cranks, and - I'm not sure I did/can - technically you've got a bit less leverage so should be working a bit harder for the same 'output.' Will have to spend a few more rides in different places I know, but they worked fine unsurprisingly.

    So besides not being able to datalog my rides, and my ass is still sore because DHL sucks and can't manage to deliver a seat - another uneventful ride, and uneventful is good for new toys.. :)
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    Last edited by rtp; 01-03-2022, 01:10 PM.


    • calfee20
      calfee20 commented
      Editing a comment
      I totally agree about DSL. I have had several problems in the past with them. I think their drivers rummage through your order to see if there is anything they might want.

    • rtp
      rtp commented
      Editing a comment
      Yeah lol - just don't get a world of Ring or similar door cameras on so many houses, 'attempted delivery' without actually attempting is just a mess. I was able to pick up the seat today - 2 days after 'attempted delivery' and the service point girl was very nice, but really wish it had showed on time in the first place. I used to really prefer FedEx over UPS after a number of bad UPS experiences, but with everyone griping on bike deliveries etc. w/FedEx, hard to sort who is actually reliable and on time for the most part nowadays...

    Lol, sorry bout ur ass! :P

    But for serious, your posts are so helpful and informative, thank you!

    From where did you find the crank arms, and how much were they? Need to get some myself!

    And lastly, do you think a 29er will fit on the lyric? I really wanna upgrade to a set of 29ers.

    Also, following Robs Cheeb build on the EMTB forum has me thinking of going 10 speed...what do you think?


      Originally posted by Nebakanezzar View Post
      Lol, sorry bout ur ass! :P

      But for serious, your posts are so helpful and informative, thank you!

      From where did you find the crank arms, and how much were they? Need to get some myself!

      And lastly, do you think a 29er will fit on the lyric? I really wanna upgrade to a set of 29ers.

      Also, following Robs Cheeb build on the EMTB forum has me thinking of going 10 speed...what do you think?
      Finally got not one, but two seats today after filing a complaint with DHL and telling them to hold at their service location. The S/M seat I ordered isn't much wider that the Volt 135, while I think the M/L will hopefully work out...assuming we're not rained out will be riding a fair amount over the next 2 days so we'll see. ;)

      Crank arms are Lunas here:
      Unfortunately the M600 isn't a standard so not many choices... but at least Luna's are reasonably priced IMO.

      I'm fairly sure a 29er will fit, but which tires may be in question. I think JRA already put a 29er up front on his Z1, which should be the same Yari/Lyric 'junior' fork we have... maybe he'll chime in to confirm. The actual model Yari on the X2 should be: FS-YARI-RC-B3 - which can be looked up on Rockshox site for tuning and upgrade part info...not positive but it may also include calculators for max wheel sizes/tires that can fit.

      I like the 12s but have been planning on moving to a 9s or 10s once it wears out. Shimano has announced 'Ultraglide' or something for ebikes, I think with 10 and 11s options, but it's unobtanium so far. I've been paying as much attention as I can while riding our various places to gears and shifting - right now I think I'll be looking for a Shimano/HG 10s 11-46 more than likely. Went in and out of 'what about Box?' with too many mixed responses there, so have been building up a parts list slowly of which 9s or 10s are either steel or most-gears-pinned cassettes and generally reasonably priced, etc.

      And yeah lol - there's days worth of reading there on E10 builds, not just Rob's.. :D


        Thanks RTP!

        yeah, saw the Luna crank arms, but $70 is a bit steep for me.

        the Large X2 is too small so i have a XL E10 frame inbound, not sure if im gonna just swap all the bits from the X2, or just swap the motor and do a whole new build for the rest. im thinking if i do go with a set of 29ers that will hopefully raise up the BB so i wont need the 150mm crank arms.

        FYI, the WTB that came on the Apollo i had was pretty darn comfy...dont know what model it was tho, and yeah, the X2 saddle kinda blows!
        Last edited by Nebakanezzar; 12-30-2021, 11:33 AM.


        • rtp
          rtp commented
          Editing a comment
          Entirely possible the Apollo seat was even the same model, just not in children and small women size 135mm! :)
          Whatcha going to do with the L frame?

        Got the seat (Ergon SMC Core, M/L size) - the S/M is barely bigger than the Volt 135mm so just skipped it entirely.
        Also did another round of messing with controls - set the brakes more inward so they're in 1 finger natural position, can grab with 2 if I need to.

        Tried without luck to find a way the 'pro' Bafang throttle would work out but the base on it is just too wide, so I grabbed a hacksaw and a file, and for the time being trimmed the OE throttle lever to not be excessively wide so it no longer gets in the way of the display controls, etc. Have another throttle coming, more like the dropper post lever configuration, but for now - it'll do. I rounded the throttle edges off more after taking the pic below...

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        Headed to the coast for a day and a night - got rained on the first day, but it was gorgeous out the second, so did a 16 mile or so random ride.
        Folded up the hitch (has a lock in the pin, but nothing a good set of cutters can't get through, and backed it up to almost touching another car in the lot, and the bikes 'slept' with us.
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        Still no resolution as of yet on my Bluetooth controller issues, so no fun of datalogging any of the rides.
        I did have one 'surprise' I'll need to look into further - the battery cover popped off during the ride and the battery started to drop loose. I caught it before it fully exited the bike frame, thankfully, but need to poke at this - seems like it doesn't click as 'positively' up into the frame, wondering if something loosened up or? I know the X1s had some 'loose battery' issues, but I think that was more about being able to push the battery upwards into the frame ? Mine's tight, so not sure if anything's changed there - will look at tomorrow, heading out for NY Eve in a bit..

        I've got a larger MuckyNuts rear fender waiting to go on - will probably use a heat gun this time, mainly just want a bit more rearward coverage for when I'm rained on or get into some mud etc.
        Have got the much-slimmer throttle coming, and need to get around to completing the laminate/frame protection. Definitely need to get a longer dropper seat post, just haven't decided on which as of yet.

        Will probably see if there's some way I can get rid of some of the slack on the SRAM G2 levers - I like the levers and the brakes are overall OK, although will probably upgrade the rears to 200mm, but especially set up for 1 finger operation, I'd like to have the levers closer to the bar with slack removed...


          Tomorrow is looking like possible snow of all things, so we did a new ride today before we're in snow.

          Longest ride to date so far at 20 miles, with some wet, bit of mud, with around a mile of tight muddy unexpected single-track thrown in. Mostly levels 2 and 3, with a brief bit of 4 of 9 in part of the single-track that wasn't really needed, but just for the heck of it. Had the Johnny Watt tires spinning a bit mostly when waiting for my wife to catch up (not her fault, still working on getting her onto an eMTB..).

          The short rear fender did about as expected - sprayed the back of my pants, hydration pack and my back a bit. Going to move up fitting the longer rear fender.. ;)

          I think I came back with somewhere around 68% or so batter indicated, although am definitely seeing 10-15% or more sag when under higher power even in levels 2-3 of 9.

          I still don't 'love' the Ergon SMC Core saddle, but 20 mile ride and nothing's 'hurting' in those areas, so I don't hate it either...

          A good ride, now let's see if it actually snows tomorrow. :-/

          Going to go shop for a replacement dropper post, 170-200mm-ish.

          One of the stops around the midway point - nice with no one there...

          Click image for larger version

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            Public Service Announcement ( ;) )
            Just a few tidbits that may help someone out if they haven't seen it elsewhere..

            One of the things I had asked as I was purchasing the X2 was info on the BMS, but Tony wasn't able to provide that info at the time...
            A few users on Facebook have been seeing issues in motor cutoff, presumably at higher assist/power/profile levels, and marcos said that the Ludi bikes (or all X2s? I'm assuming at least all Ludis) were requested with ~60A BMS on them, but apparently at least some number were not. Luna is now checking them before going out, but if you are experiencing this, may want to reach out to Luna.
            Note if need be until resolved, you CAN lower the Battery Current Max to 35A i the Luna VESC mobile app under Bike Cfg.

            One other - I'm kind of surprised, and I've been removing my battery for charging to date, but apparently you really want the bike power button (chrome button above key lock on side of bike downtube) pressed in/on position if using the built-in charge port, or at the very least, some arcing/sparks may result. Seb did a video on this here:
            How to charge and how not to charge your Luna Cycle X2 or Z1

            He's also got a few other videos under his YT username...


            • paxtana
              paxtana commented
              Editing a comment
              The V2 controllers on these bikes were shipped with programming that pulled far more current than what the listing advertises for ludicrous. The 2000w advertised would be 40A, not 60A. We will be notifying customers that they need to lower it to 40 (or more ideally 35 if you want to be on the safe side).

            Originally posted by rtp View Post
            Public Service Announcement ( ;) )
            Just a few tidbits that may help someone out if they haven't seen it elsewhere..

            One of the things I had asked as I was purchasing the X2 was info on the BMS, but Tony wasn't able to provide that info at the time...
            A few users on Facebook have been seeing issues in motor cutoff, presumably at higher assist/power/profile levels, and marcos said that the Ludi bikes (or all X2s? I'm assuming at least all Ludis) were requested with ~60A BMS on them, but apparently at least some number were not. Luna is now checking them before going out, but if you are experiencing this, may want to reach out to Luna.
            Note if need be until resolved, you CAN lower the Battery Current Max to 35A i the Luna VESC mobile app under Bike Cfg.

            One other - I'm kind of surprised, and I've been removing my battery for charging to date, but apparently you really want the bike power button (chrome button above key lock on side of bike downtube) pressed in/on position if using the built-in charge port, or at the very least, some arcing/sparks may result. Seb did a video on this here:
            How to charge and how not to charge your Luna Cycle X2 or Z1

            He's also got a few other videos under his YT username...

            Hey RTP,

            Wow, great info as usual! i did get a Error 10 once early on, where do i confirm if i have the 60A BMS?



            • marcos
              marcos commented
              Editing a comment
              Error 10 is just overtemperature, you pushed that motor a bit too far, its not BMS related. If it were a BMS problem the whole bike including display would shutdown the first time you go full throttle for a few seconds

            • rtp
              rtp commented
              Editing a comment
              marcos Will you get an error code for BMS over-current being triggered or other BMS actions?

            • marcos
              marcos commented
              Editing a comment
              BMS overcurrent shuts down the whole bike including the display, so I don't think you could see an error code, and the BMS doesn't have CANbus so we can't talk to it to get other data.

            X2 owners if you are swapping out the rear shock the bushings for Fox shock are 803-03-179 (8x32.39mm) and 803-03-245 (8x16.46mm) Jenson seems to be the only US company selling both.
            Installed with bushing listed no issues. Fit perfectly.

            Just installed the Fox Float 38 E-Tuned 160mm fork.

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            Last edited by IOUZIP; 02-16-2022, 05:48 AM.


              Round 2 modifications inbound
              Waiting for some things to arrive, some of which I waffled on for some time.
              Just noting that in some cases, it's not a 'need' - I like to tinker and try things until I get to 'this is how I want it.' Out of the box, the Ludi X2 is pretty solid, but gotta see what I like more/less as I thinker and accumulate hopefully not too many 'extra parts' along the way. ;) Did the same for on and off-road motorcycles, cars, etc., so it's time for the X2 now.. ;)

              I've got the following coming inbound at this point:
              1. Brakes - I expect eventually I may convert to other-than-Guide brakes, but for now I don't 'need' them, so let's see how they do over time first.
              a. I have a rear Hope 200mm rotor coming and 20mm offset adapter - this is pretty much for grins at this point, but I've boiled brake fluid on the street and on track before in cars and motorcycles (street and off-road for bikes), so I'm just gonna go with - it won't hurt anything.
              b. I have a set of 'deslackinators' coming to remove the awful slack/play in the levers. I dig the levers themselves well enough, now set up for 1 finger braking, but they 'should' have an adjuster to bring the levers in closer to the handle. Cheap enough to try 'em and see at $28 or so, although one of these days I'll get a 3D printer....

              2. Cockpit / Controls
              Keeping the Luna bar for now until rest is sorted, as it's pretty close for me ergo-wise, but still messing with controls.
              a. SRAM matchmaker clamps pair - for $50 for the pair of 'em, it'll give me a bit more flexibility on control positioning and clean the bar up a bit. I'll probably wind up with a matchmaker dropper lever as well. I'm unlikely to keep running SRAM drivetrain as it wears out, but will probably have the SRAM brakes for a while, and can always get or make adapters in the future if need be (e.g. Shimano Linkglide if it ever comes out for real, Box, whatever...)
              b. Mirrors suck, at least on anything that gets dirty in tight stuff on occasion. But for some trails and road riding, gotta have at least one, especially when riding with my wife. I had a single cheapie on my BBHSD, and didn't really want a bar end with the mirror sticking outwards (smack a tree, break mirror, and then shove the whole mess into your hand = no thanks). Not gonna lie, I kinda miss my barkbusters, but I finally settled on a Mirra bar-end, and will run it dropped to the inside and below the grip and see if can tolerate it. Just couldn't find anything bar-mount I 'wanted' to put on the bike at all, so best can go with for now - and helmet mount mirrors off-road just kind of freak me out thinking about it.
              c. A super-slim throttle that looks similar to the KS dropper lever. Need to play with once it shows up, probably in next few days, and may swap throttle over to the right hand side and dropper lever to the left. TBD, but I can get rid of my hacksawed and filed Bafang throttle - this one should be 1/2-2/3rd the width of the cut down lever.

              3. Misc
              a. Dropper post. This one was frigging analysis paralysis. I still have an old Fox set of off-road armor and hydration pack and like them ok, but man they think everything is made of gold - not spending $400 on a dropper and THEN buying a cable and lever. Meanwhile, the Medium frame fits me pretty well but the 100mm dropper post AND the shortened crank arms has the post a fair distance out of the tube - I'm still not at min insertion depth, but it's a CF frame so going with I'd like to keep most of the dropper post inside the frame. Stupid, maybe, but reliability and strength good, broken frame = bad day. I'm not tearing up crazy rock gardens so could have probably left it alone, but - didn't want to. Went all over the place from a used takeoff KS, to a UK company with a reasonable-ish priced and good reviewed but seemingly unservice-able ~$150 dropper, to eThirteen, OneUp Components, SDG, ... Realistically I probably could go with 185mm or so, and was going to pull the trigger on a OneUp (~$50 replacement hydraulics, serviceable), when I came across a 170mm SDG Trellis nearly new (normally a ~$250 post + lever, etc.) and made an offer. SDG Trellis w/Raceface lever inbound.
              b. Chainrings - on a cargo ship somewhere, shoulda been here already. I think I've got a pair of 40 and 42T coming. I may well wind up back and the 38T, but it's a relatively cheap experiment.
              c. Chainring bash guard - This was a bitch, and still don't think I found one I like. Most 104BCD guards stop at 38T or smaller, and while there are some cool guards for e.g. Shimano and other motors etc. that are static mounted or split, picked up some random AliExpress one for now along with some longer chainring bolts.

              Should keep me busy for a little bit. Still need to find the *#&(*# heat gun for the longer rear fender... will post pics and updates as I get 'er done...


                The 'Unable to Pair or Connect' Problem
                I don't work for Luna and this is not an official Luna writeup. Luna may provide alternate methods for either of these (and I welcome any corrections or better ways to do it) - information provided is at your own risk. This information should not be construed as definitive and corrections or improvements are welcome.

                What is the 'unable to pair or connect' issue and what causes it?

                The controller uses Low Energy Bluetooth (BLE) for communication with the mobile app. To an extent, the controller BLE acts like a server and the mobile app is the client.
                However - there may only be a single connection at a time, and a maximum of one device (easily) paired to the controller.
                It's also important to note - you do not NEED to pair to the controller at all and then any device within range running the mobile app can scan and connect (without pairing).

                So, for example, if you have multiple phones, and you pair one of them to the controller, no other device can pair or even scan/connect to the controller, and you will get an error like the one below once attempted: (Note - this one is showing a pair attempt, but a nearly identical message will show up on a simple connect attempt as well)
                Click image for larger version  Name:	VESCCantPairShort.png Views:	0 Size:	102.3 KB ID:	146310

                It also seems to be the case the actual pairing is done at the 'app' level, as in if you install the Luna/VESC mobile app and pair, then uninstall the app, the controller may still believe it's paired, but a subsequent new install of the app still may be unable to scan and connect, or pair, and you may still see the message above.

                I hit this issue when I had bought a cheap Android phone and we hit the 64 vs 32 bit app issue, and returned the phone for another. I did actually unpair from the first before scanning from the new phone, but 'something' happened in there and I still wound up with the message above. As it's not 'one click' to undo this situation, at this point I recommend not pairing at all, and just scan and connect at each power on. Once there's a new app/firmware update, I'll probably go ahead and pair assuming I have a bit of time on my hands, then upgrade, to make sure pairing remains across upgrades etc. before considering permanently pairing to my phone. YMMV.

                There is a boolean (True or False) flag in the controller for pairing, and essentially if it's paired, it won't respond to any connection attempts from other devices other than the paired device, thus making 'other devices' unable to connect. This is technically good for security (your friend can't connect to your bike and change settings on you), but considering the limited range of the BLE connection and the pain in the event you hit the 'unable to connect or pair' issue, well - yeah, I'm not going to pair my own phone at this point.

                Flag shown in desktop VESC tool (not needed at this point, just for information)
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                How do you fix it?
                Three ways:
                1. If you still have the original device, you can unpair it to allow other devices to connect, but first go to the pairing info screen and screenshot it or carefully write down the UUID of the controller, as I have seen issues in unpairing not being successful, leaving no devices able to scan and connect.
                2. Add the correct UUID manually to the <unable to connect | pair> device. This will allow the second device to connect (possibly pair - uncertain, but connection is the key part here..). This is also why I recommend screenshooting or writing down the controller UUID if you DO pair with any device, even if you later unpair it - this will let you back in by adding the UUID manually.
                3. If none of the first two options are available for whatever reason, the final path is to reset the flag manually via the USB connection. This is not the USB connector on the Bafang display as that's not connected back to the controller but basically a 5v port, and requires removing the controller to connect a micro-usb cable to the connector on the controller, and either resetting the flag via the Luna version of the VESC tool desktop, or reflashing the Luna M600 Ludiv2 firmware from the desktop Luna VESC tool.

                Will cover the details of #3 in the next posts.
                Last edited by rtp; 01-07-2022, 01:48 PM.


                  Controller Removal, Replacement or Accessing the Controller micro-USB port
                  Disclaimer: I don't work for Luna and this is not an official Luna writeup. Luna may provide alternate methods for either of these (and I welcome any corrections or better ways to do it) - information provided is at your own risk. This information should not be construed as definitive and corrections or improvements are welcome.

                  Why would I do this?
                  Well - hopefully you will never need to, but this is relevant as well in the case that Luna later sells the LudiV2 controller to X1 owners, standalone, if Luna determines you have a bad controller, or if you've managed to get the 'unable to connect' or 'unable to pair' issue covered in the prior post.

                  Removal or Partial Removal of the controller
                  Note - it's possible to get to the USB port without completely removing the controller or chainring, etc. However, it's a pain in the ass, as the chainring will block at least one or two of the torx screws holding the controller in, and it wouldn't be 'great' rounding off the screw heads, so - do what you'd like, but this is how I choose to do it.

                  The best way to do this is with the bike on it's bars and seat, with the motor as close to eye level standing on kneeling as possible for comfort. Consider your controls and display and either put some padding down, rotate out of the way, or use some small boxes or something to allow the bike to sit solidly upside down on the seat and handlebars. Alternately if you can lift the bike high enough safely, that's also an option.

                  Lock the rear derailleur by levering the cage forward and pushing the pin into place, so you have slack in the chain, and remove the chain from the chainring. Alternately you could pop the master link off the chain and remove the chain - we just want it out of our way.

                  Turn off the power to the bike. Pressing the chrome button on the side of the bike is OK (depressed/not flush is supplying power, button flush with bezel = powered off), but removing the battery is better. Even if later connecting the the micro-USB port, power will be supplied to the controller from the USB port and battery power is NOT needed until done with everything.

                  Use an Allen wrench (will check size, think it's 4mm) to remove the 4 chainring bolts. There are round nuts on the backside - hold them with a finger or a chainring bolt tool and make sure you don't lose them. Set the 4 chainring screws and nuts aside somewhere safe.

                  You can choose to leave the chainring on and slide it out of the way, and kind of access the 4 screws holding the controller in, or remove the chainring (my preference).
                  Here's a pic showing both the external BT antenna and 3 of the 4 screws that will need to be removed - and why I choose the remove the chain and chainring - the screw on the upper left is difficult to get on straight with the chainring in place, and the 4th is in the lower left behind the chainring.
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                  Removing the chainring is a bit 'fiddly' - you do not need to remove the cranks, but you want to basically 'make an X' with the spider once the chainring bolts are removed, then rotate the biggest open areas of the chainring to go over the spider arms. Turn the chainring 90* at a time and let it 'hang' and then rotate it until you find 'the spot.'

                  Once removed, it looks like this (I already pulled the controller torx screws out, IIRC they're T10 torx)
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                  Be careful on removal as there is a gasket under the controller and you do not want to break it.
                  If it's 'stuck', use a wide blade once the screws are removed to pry slightly sideways. You can but don't need to, remove the plastic bash guard if you need a little more room.

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                  The alternative (not removing chainring is 'not much room':
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                  The micro-USB connector is behind the white connectors on the right.
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                  NOTE: There are 2 controller revisions currently that are functionally equivalent with either 2 capacitors or 4 capacitors (brown cylinders at top of pic).

                  Now, for fixing the can't connect or pair issue, you can either TRY to get a micro-USB cable onto the USB connector, but again, it's tight...or remove the controller. (The USB connection is enough to power the controller during that process).
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                  You'll want to unplug the connectors for removal, or may be able to get a USB cable plugged in.
                  If removing the cables, note 2 of the 3 white cables are 6 pin, smaller, and note which one has a marking on it to make sure the right plugs go back in the right place. If it doesn't, make one yourself to ensure the right cable goes back in the right place.

                  Note that the white cable connectors DO have small plastic locks on them - do NOT just pull on the cables, or you may well be repairing a harness that has tiny pins inside the connectors! The phase wire and power connectors (blue, yellow, green and the red and black) should come undone easily enough - but use the connector and don't pull on the wires.

                  You can see the connector 'locks' on the two smaller plugs - the large one has a 'lock' as well - a small screwdriver, pick, or ideally a plastic 'spudger' can help if unable to depress with your fingers.
                  Click image for larger version  Name:	ControllerRemoval.jpg Views:	0 Size:	156.4 KB ID:	146328

                  Controller Replacement
                  If simply replacing the controller, it's out at this point. Installation is pretty much the same in reverse, but it's highly recommended to connect the harnesses from the innermost (right above the micro-USB port) first, then the smaller cable with the blue mark on it, and then the larger white connector, and make sure the cable 'locks' re-engage. At this point, it's not a bad idea to coat the outside of the plug ends with some di-electric grease, and as the controller to motor gasket is seemingly rubberized, I gave a light coating of silicone grease. Note the controller gasket has at least one locating ping (to the right of my thumb) - make sure this is sitting down on the pin before replacement and tightening the controller back up so the gasket doesn't get pinched.

                  On power-up from controller replacement, (battery in, power switch on side of bike depressed, press power on...) you will very likely get an 'Error 08' on the (Bafang) controller screen. This means the crank or something moved the magnet or for a new controller, it needs to calibrate to determine motor and magnet position. This is normal.

                  This is also covered in the Ludi controller documentation, linked to from here:

                  Connect the mobile app (must be Luna mobile app, not from Play store at this point in time..) to the controller, go into Bike Cfg, raise the rear wheel off the ground so the wheel (and cranks) can spin freely, then select the 'Offset Correction' button. This will move the motor a little bit for 15-30 seconds or so and update the offset value.

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	LudiEncoderRecalibration.jpg Views:	0 Size:	50.9 KB ID:	146329

                  Once the motor stops moving, and the # updates, note this value for sanity (= write it down), write the settings to the controller, then disconnect on the app, and power the bike down from the controller. I also then depress the power button on the side of the bike, although it may or may not be needed.

                  Power the bike back on and the 'Error 08' should not display on the Bafang controller. The bike is now ready to ride again. If you are still getting 08, connect via the app, go to bike cfg and manually enter the # from the prior offset correction process, or raise the rear wheel
                  again an repeat, and make sure to write settings. Note values may vary but should be within a few degrees if running the offset correction routine several times - this is ok.

                  See next post for addressing the 'can't connect' or 'can't pair' issue.
                  Last edited by rtp; 01-07-2022, 06:26 PM.


                    Can't Connect, Can't Pair issues

                    There's actually one more 'simpler' case before digging into the 'less fun' ones. The Bluetooth range is relatively low, and the combination of the use of Low Energy BT, the controller transmit power and your phone may cause some disconnections with messages of disconnected or unable to connect. For these types of issues, do two things:
                    1. Set your phone very close to the antenna on the side of the controller (drive side of motor) - like on a pedal or resting in the V of the frame if it'll stay there. Use the Scan button on the mobile app and the controller (with bike/motor powered on) will display a device starting with VESC-&lt;something&gt; and possibly other BLE or Bluetooth devices (especially if you have for example, any smart home devices nearby..). Click on Connect. Note that the app will download several things from the controller - not only values but also the ride dashboard, and you will see a green message box and message at the bottom of the screen showing the connection succeeded and a few messages about loading. Until the load completes, the mobile app won't have the ride screen showing temperature display, etc. - so give it a few seconds at least.

                    2. Bluetooth Antenna positioning. As shipped, your antenna may be 'tucked' in tightly against the controller. This is ok for some controller/phone combinations but not for all. You can see the antenna in the below pic.

                    What you WANT to do, is carefully pull the tip of the antenna (the thin part on the right, not the grommet through the controller casing..) so that it points outwards a bit, like the next picture:

                    This WILL help with connection range. How much may depend on your specific controller and phone, but it does help.

                    Ok, so none of these things worked, still can't connect or am seeing the 'unable to pair' message...
                    Click image for larger version  Name:	VESCCantPairShort.png Views:	0 Size:	102.3 KB ID:	146438

                    For unable to connect (not the pairing message), always first try both power cycling the bike as well as the previously shown antenna positioning and by holding the phone closer to the controller on sitting a pedal. If you still can't connect, open a support ticket with Luna.
                    For the unable to pair issue, also always refer to the latest Ludi controller documentation here:
                    as it's possible a simpler way may exist in the future.

                    You're going to have to remove the controller, or remove it at least far enough to connect a micro-USB (not USB-C, not USB-A, micro-USB) cable to the controller, and whatever is on your PC end, usually a USB-A or USB-C connection), so something like this cable for most:

                    You're also going to need the desktop VESC tool. At some point, the Luna Ludi changes will be merged into the main repository, but until then this is a critical note - do not attempt to use desktop VESC tool to change any settings, only use for firmware update and log analysis (until Ludi controller changes are merged at the very least) as the general desktop VESC builds do not yet know about the unique/additional params and settings of the Ludi v2 controller.

                    You can get that here, although again, check the Ludi manual in case a special build is provided in the future by Luna:

                    Note the above has links for Windows and Linux. There is a macOS version also available if you know where to get it, but the same caveat applies already mentioned - until Ludi controller changes are merged, only for uploading firmware and log analysis only.

                    You will also need the Ludi V2 M600 firmware file. This is linked to in the Ludi docs, and this is the latest one as of this writing, but if there is a newer one linked in the manual - use that.

                    Once you have your cable, the firmware file downloaded to your system, and the VESC desktop app, go ahead and pull the controller per the prior writeup, or at least to the point where you can connect the micro-USB end of the cable to the controller per the below (micro-USB on the far right above the white connectors).
                    Click image for larger version  Name:	LudiV2Connectors.jpg Views:	0 Size:	316.8 KB ID:	146439
                    Power does NOT need to be on to the bike if leaving it all connected - the USB connection will provide enough power for what's needed here.

                    Once the cable is connected on both ends, the simplest way to connect is the use the 'auto connect' option in VESC.
                    NOTE: My VESC screens may be slightly different than yours - I'm on a mac and in dark mode - no reason for concern..
                    Click image for larger version  Name:	VESCAutoconnect.jpg Views:	0 Size:	140.6 KB ID:	146444 This has worked for me every time, but if not, you can go to the 'Connections' menu item and cycle through the dropdowns in the connection menu, which are a combination of BLE and serial/COM port type of device list... if doing it manually, you'll have to cycle through any devices listed in the device list dropdown and hit the Connect icon in the upper right (outlined in red) on each until a connection is established. Again, auto-connect will probably work, so use it.. ;)

                    Note the controller will show at least one LED lit when connected to the PC via micro-USB - this is normal. Going from memory but I think it's one solid green and one flashing RED but will update next time it's apart unless marcos cares to chime in here.. Click image for larger version  Name:	VESCManualConnection.jpg Views:	0 Size:	100.7 KB ID:	146445 In the future once Ludi controller code and firmware is merged with mainline VESC tool, you could simply go in and reset the 'Paired' flag on the controller, but this may or may not work at the moment so it is NOT recommended.

                    Instead, we'll load the Ludi M600 firmware file into VESC (after connecting). Click on firmware on the left hand side, and you'll note a bunch of things listed under 'included files' - none of which resemble the Ludi M600 - this should be listed in the future once all code merges are completed.
                    So instead, click the center tab for 'Custom File' , navigate to where you saved the LudiV2 M600 firmware file, select it and click ok/open.
                    Click image for larger version  Name:	VESCLoadM600FirmwareFile.jpg Views:	0 Size:	111.3 KB ID:	146443
                    Once the firmware file is loaded, we can flash it to the connected controller by selecting the 'use' radio button next to the M600 firmware file and then pressing the down arrow to download to the controller. Relevant fields/things to check are shown in the image below outlined in red.
                    Click image for larger version  Name:	VESCLoadFirmware.jpg Views:	0 Size:	109.9 KB ID:	146462 This will take a little bit but not long, and the firmware upload status bar will move then the firmware will complete. Wait a couple of minutes or so for sanity to make sure all writes have completed and the controller will reboot itself to update to the new firmware, then hit the 'disconnect' icon and you can unplug the controller micro-USB. Reloading firmware will automatically clear the 'paired' flag - which you can reconnect and confirm if you'd like (it's not required) by reconnecting and checking the General / Paired Status which should now read as False. Again - do not get tempted and try to alter any other settings with Desktop VESC - firmware and log analysis only for now..

                    Click image for larger version  Name:	VescPairingFlagWeb.jpg Views:	0 Size:	187.0 KB ID:	146463
                    At this point, you can go ahead and put the controller back in the motor. Once powered back up, the Bafang display will probably read Error 08 (encoder needs to be calibrated), which is OK - but make sure you can SCAN AND CONNECT (not Pair) at this point and both see and connect to the controller.

                    Once you do, go into bike cfg, lift the rear wheel and do the encoder detection process outlined previously and referenced in the Ludi V2 manual, and you should now be good to go! (and yeah, I still wouldn't pair, but if you do, SAVE the screenshot of the paired info with device ID so next time, you're not taking your controller out to reset it! :) )
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by rtp; 01-10-2022, 03:51 PM.


                      CONTROLS UPDATES
                      I'm pretty ok with the brake lever positioning and the filed down throttle is ok, but there are improvements to be made.
                      I picked up Deslackinators ( ) to remove some of the slack/play in the SRAM levers, got a new skinny throttle, and wanted to go the Mirra bar-end mirror a shot as well - need one but dislike most of them. I also picked up a pair of SRAM MatchMaker X clamps.

                      Adjusting SRAM brake levers
                      This is probably obvious to most, but the G2 Guides do have an adjustment or stop for how far the levers can come when closed towards the handlebars - and your hands. If you haven't set up your levers at all - you should. Angling them to ~45* is a good starting point, but check in both seated (proper riding height) and in post/attack/standing on pedals positions.

                      I think the SRAM G2 Guide levers are 'officially' 2 finger levers, but they'll work with more or less however many you want. I ran them as 2 finger, and now moved to single finger, as the brakes IMO are strong enough to stop either end of the bike pretty well. Adjust 'number of fingers' by loosening the clamp slightly with a torx bit (I think it's T15 or T25, don't recall and am inside at the moment), and move it ourboatd/towards the grip if want more fingers on or inboard for fewer fingers.)

                      Now, adjusting the single screw - once you have the angle and in/out positioning set, grab the brakes HARD. What you want in general is to be able to brake with maximum force (think of an 'omg wtf moment' and how hard you might brake then) and NOT touch your hand/other fingers or the bars at max brake lever pressure applied.

                      The single screw can be turned by hand, most easily without putting pressure on it. I think clockwise brings the lever closer and counter-clockwise further, but you'll see within a few turns/clicks of the screw.
                      Click image for larger version  Name:	BrakeLeverAdjustment.jpg Views:	1 Size:	125.7 KB ID:	146479 Click image for larger version  Name:	BrakeLeverAdjustment2.jpg Views:	1 Size:	109.8 KB ID:	146480

                      Adjust them to suit.

                      Once they're adjusted, the lack of a second adjustment becomes obvious, as there's a fair amount of distance from the normal lever position to fully engaged - more $ brakes often have options to adjust this, but we don't n the G2s, which is where the 'Deslackinators' come in... hopefully.

                      The Deslackinators ( ) are $25-30 and are pretty clever. They come in different sizes and snap onto the brakes and basically reduce the space before the unengaged lever hits the 'stop' on the brakes. They are 3D printed and come with numerous 'sizes' 2 each in each size, allowing fitment to both sides. The engraved #s are basically how thick the portion is that reduces the contact distance when you let go of the lever.
                      Click image for larger version  Name:	DelSlackinatorsPackaged.jpg Views:	1 Size:	287.3 KB ID:	146483
                      Click image for larger version  Name:	DeSlackingatorsLinedUp.jpg Views:	1 Size:	160.2 KB ID:	146482

                      What you want is to remove as much slack (no pressure on lever) as you can, without it causing the brakes to drag. It's possible if you recenter your calipers (loosen 2x bolts on caliper slightly, squeeze brake lever hard to clamp to rotor, re-tighten), you may be able to go 'bigger' on the Deslackinator size. Regardless make sure you are NOT dragging the brakes.

                      They literally just pop onto the head of the adjustment screw.

                      The whole thing is clever, and low $, but - I'm not sure how they'll hold up over time or if they'll vibrate loose. Will have to see. I may look into adding some kind of stays-pliable putty or something, but at least in worst case there are extras included in the bag. I wound up with 4mm on the front and 3.5mm on the rears, but note the slack will increase slightly as your pads wear down.

                      Either way, it's an immediate and noticeable improvement to the brake lever feel for me - I just hope they hold up and don't pop off over time.
                      You can see the 'contact point' the Deslackinator contacts in the second pic..
                      Click image for larger version  Name:	DeSlackinatorFitted.jpg Views:	1 Size:	83.8 KB ID:	146484
                      Click image for larger version  Name:	DeSlackinatorContactPoint.jpg Views:	1 Size:	71.6 KB ID:	146481

                      New Throttle + moving the dropper post remote
                      This ones out of Poland but you can search Alibaba more than likely for something similar - the OE Bafang throttle is just, well - huge and doesn't help at all for control layout ergos. Went ahead and mounted the throttle on the right, moved the dropper remote over to the left, and cleaned up the cables, at least for now (have a dropper post with new remote inbound, so not quite 'done' yet.

                      SRAM Matchmaker X Clamps
                      I was thinking I'd use one of the pair of clamps to at least rework the brake and shifter side of things, and then wait until the new dropper and remote show up before also using the left side, but - looks like the SX shifter on the X2 isn't matchmaker compatible, as it seems the bar clamp or a portion of it is embedded into the shifter. I only looked at it for a minute, so it's possible I'm wrong on this (let me know if so), but punted on doing anything with it for now.

                      The clamps are kind of interesting as the only real different vs the G2 Guide clamps are the extended piece slotted into the open portion or slot on the bar clamp.
                      (look at the small bracket with the red protector on it).

                      Click image for larger version  Name:	SRAMMatchMakerVsOE2.jpg Views:	1 Size:	149.5 KB ID:	146485

                      You can get dropper remotes and most but not all sram shifters and breaks will let you combine to a single bar clamp and adds a bit of adjustment, but again, looked like a no-go for the SX shifter on my X2, so putting on hold, at least for now. Kind of lol the allen screw is silver vs black - will use the ones from the brakes once I do find a use for them..

                      Mirra Bar End Mirror
                      Gotta have a mirror, even for some trails, and I don't like most bar-ends as they are either goofy and too wide, or they can easily slam your hand if you happen to tap a tree or something. I was going to get a single bar-clamped mirror for the left side, but just couldn't find anything I didn't really dislike, so decided to try a Mirra bar-end, initially 'inside down and backwards' meaning hanging below the bar and inwards vs outwards and above.

                      You get a bag of parts, literally wrapped in the instructions, along with two different side end/wedge pieces for different sized bars. The bigger one is the one we want.
                      Just use the diagram for assembly but don't tighten the bolt 'expanding the wedge' until you have the assembly tucked inside the bars. If keeping the WTB grips that came on the X2 from Luna, you'll need an Xacto knife or other razor or knife to cut out the end - don't cut extra material, just clear out to be able to reach inside the bars..
                      Click image for larger version  Name:	MirraParts.jpg Views:	1 Size:	190.2 KB ID:	146486

                      Final control setup (and least for now)
                      Went for a ride after to see what I thought - the mirror worked reasonably well..yeah, your hand will block some of it, but the mirror is relatively wide view and I can see bikes behind me as well as any cars getting close, so going to leave it as is for now. If I were going to be doing a lot or mostly road riding, I'd probably flip it above the bars.
                      Throttle works well where it is - looks like it may be in the way of shifting, but it's not, and likewise on the dropper remote on the left.
                      Happy with 'em for now anyways.

                      Cockpit and front controls layout (and yeah, that is indeed a 'bike bell' - added after a jogger almost sacrificed themselves to my front wheel...)
                      Did what I could with the cables for now and they're 'ok' - once I finalize the new dropper and dropper remote, I'll wrap them as well..
                      You can see the new (much smaller) throttle on the far right of the right bar just inboard of the grip. It looks like it may interfere with shifting but it doesn't.
                      Click image for larger version  Name:	ControlsCockpit.jpg Views:	0 Size:	184.8 KB ID:	146390 Click image for larger version  Name:	ControlsFront.jpg Views:	0 Size:	206.0 KB ID:	146391
                      Last edited by rtp; 01-11-2022, 08:27 AM.


                      • rtp
                        rtp commented
                        Editing a comment
                        No idea what happened, most pics disappeared - think they're back now, but max of 10 attachments per post = 1 didn't make it back in.

                      • carlb4u
                        carlb4u commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Thanks for your posts ,got Deslackinators kind of pricey but like them.
                        made mistake of putting on with cold brakes,half way on downhill run realized brakes were dragging ,easy fix,just took off
                        need to install with warm brakes or leave room for expansion.

                      • rtp
                        rtp commented
                        Editing a comment
                        carlb4u I think there's also some variance in SRAM sizing. Mine were a bit looser than I'd prefer, going to try to put some tape or something underneath. Feel is SOOO much better with less slack, just some concerns over them not popping off when riding over time.

                      Paging marcos paxtana and Seb if any of you want to call out any 'badness' in the rites in posts 57 and 58, inject any disclaimers, etc etc. ;)
                      Otherwise I'll carry on.. ;)