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My Ludi V2 X2

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  • Nebakanezzar
    Thanks RTP!

    yeah, saw the Luna crank arms, but $70 is a bit steep for me.

    the Large X2 is too small so i have a XL E10 frame inbound, not sure if im gonna just swap all the bits from the X2, or just swap the motor and do a whole new build for the rest. im thinking if i do go with a set of 29ers that will hopefully raise up the BB so i wont need the 150mm crank arms.

    FYI, the WTB that came on the Apollo i had was pretty darn comfy...dont know what model it was tho, and yeah, the X2 saddle kinda blows!
    Last edited by Nebakanezzar; 12-30-2021, 11:33 AM.

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  • rtp
    Originally posted by Nebakanezzar View Post
    Lol, sorry bout ur ass! :P

    But for serious, your posts are so helpful and informative, thank you!

    From where did you find the crank arms, and how much were they? Need to get some myself!

    And lastly, do you think a 29er will fit on the lyric? I really wanna upgrade to a set of 29ers.

    Also, following Robs Cheeb build on the EMTB forum has me thinking of going 10 speed...what do you think?
    Finally got not one, but two seats today after filing a complaint with DHL and telling them to hold at their service location. The S/M seat I ordered isn't much wider that the Volt 135, while I think the M/L will hopefully work out...assuming we're not rained out will be riding a fair amount over the next 2 days so we'll see. ;)

    Crank arms are Lunas here:
    Unfortunately the M600 isn't a standard so not many choices... but at least Luna's are reasonably priced IMO.

    I'm fairly sure a 29er will fit, but which tires may be in question. I think JRA already put a 29er up front on his Z1, which should be the same Yari/Lyric 'junior' fork we have... maybe he'll chime in to confirm. The actual model Yari on the X2 should be: FS-YARI-RC-B3 - which can be looked up on Rockshox site for tuning and upgrade part info...not positive but it may also include calculators for max wheel sizes/tires that can fit.

    I like the 12s but have been planning on moving to a 9s or 10s once it wears out. Shimano has announced 'Ultraglide' or something for ebikes, I think with 10 and 11s options, but it's unobtanium so far. I've been paying as much attention as I can while riding our various places to gears and shifting - right now I think I'll be looking for a Shimano/HG 10s 11-46 more than likely. Went in and out of 'what about Box?' with too many mixed responses there, so have been building up a parts list slowly of which 9s or 10s are either steel or most-gears-pinned cassettes and generally reasonably priced, etc.

    And yeah lol - there's days worth of reading there on E10 builds, not just Rob's.. :D

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  • rtp
    commented on 's reply
    Yeah lol - just don't get a world of Ring or similar door cameras on so many houses, 'attempted delivery' without actually attempting is just a mess. I was able to pick up the seat today - 2 days after 'attempted delivery' and the service point girl was very nice, but really wish it had showed on time in the first place. I used to really prefer FedEx over UPS after a number of bad UPS experiences, but with everyone griping on bike deliveries etc. w/FedEx, hard to sort who is actually reliable and on time for the most part nowadays...

  • calfee20
    commented on 's reply
    I totally agree about DSL. I have had several problems in the past with them. I think their drivers rummage through your order to see if there is anything they might want.

  • Nebakanezzar
    Lol, sorry bout ur ass! :P

    But for serious, your posts are so helpful and informative, thank you!

    From where did you find the crank arms, and how much were they? Need to get some myself!

    And lastly, do you think a 29er will fit on the lyric? I really wanna upgrade to a set of 29ers.

    Also, following Robs Cheeb build on the EMTB forum has me thinking of going 10 speed...what do you think?

    Leave a comment:

  • rtp
    DHL Sucks.... and Crank Arms
    It's got to be said - DHL blows chunks. Ordered a $$ seat from overseas, paid for expedited shipping, to show between 7-9pm EST Monday night, get a text saying it's close/in neighborhood, go to web to track it and - shipment exception/unable to deliver. Funny as my Ring doorbell shows zero attempts. Called DHL pissed, they claimed they'd send a note to the driver to re-deliver, and you got it, nada. Called them again today, told them get it to <anywhere> so I can pick it up in person, as clearly their driver can't be bothered or trusted. So yeah, it's now 24 hours later and no one knows where the package is. Making it 'better,' I have another one claimed to be coming DHL for Wednesday - wanna bet how that one works out? Grr.

    But hey, I got some crank arms..and here they are.
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    Bafang 170mm on left, 150mm on right.

    Installed and moved pedals over with some anti-seize on the threads, then we did a ~16 mile ride, mostly bike/walking trails for today.
    Zero issues with the new wheels/hub, although some jogger decided to literally step right in front of me as I was passing her on the left, so got to feel how the new tires/wheels/brakes act under full lockup - no one hurt, but that was fun. Didn't check but guessing both ears with earbuds in......

    I was expecting to be able to feel the difference from the shortened cranks, and - I'm not sure I did/can - technically you've got a bit less leverage so should be working a bit harder for the same 'output.' Will have to spend a few more rides in different places I know, but they worked fine unsurprisingly.

    So besides not being able to datalog my rides, and my ass is still sore because DHL sucks and can't manage to deliver a seat - another uneventful ride, and uneventful is good for new toys.. :)
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    Last edited by rtp; 01-03-2022, 01:10 PM.

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  • rtp
    Finally - matching wheels ;)
    I have a rear hub spring on order - see DT rear hub breakdown below, was missing the outermost spring in the original XD wheel setup, and needed it for the HG/Shimano conversion or it effectively became a locker/fixie wheel.. With the holidays, who knows how long it'll be on shipping misc small spare parts, so decided to roll the dice today and stop in a handful of local bike shops in the hopes that someone, somewhere, might have a DT hub spring I could snag. I was missing the rightmost #10 spring...)

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    A fair # of shops were either closed, or closed for the holidays, but still had a few to try. First up was a single owner run shop with lots of good reviews, but no such luck. Had a couple of others on the list, but the closest one to where we drove to already (yeah, could have called around but also wanted to check out some misc gear including for my wife..) was a Trek shop. I was kind of interested in going there regardless, as they were mentioned as being one of the places having a 'sit bone measurement' system of some kind. Turns out they did, and it's honestly a simplification of the 'spray a piece of paper and sit on it with cardboard underneath, then measure center of each depression to the other' but kind of neat - it's a gel-filled flat slab, and behind it a sliding insert with colors on it - basically lining up from center to center and it shows a 'color' which pretty much maps to sit bone distance as follows:
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    Basically they map to more or less S, M, L and XL within a given range. I used a measurement app on my wife's and it sat center to center at a bit over 4" which is ~110-120mm, while they went with yellow, so I'm assuming their slide chart adds the +20mm to the top for their final recommendation.
    The left hand side is kind of glare-ridden, but the top two are Race and Performance Road | MTB for the first row, Fitness for the second row, and something like casual/recreational/commute for the bottom row. They do sell some seats 'color-coded' so probably some liberty was taken (note the repeating 165mm and 205mm for the last two rows? Bet they only sell two seat sizes in those styles...) but was neat anyways. I also fell into yellow, but closer to blue than her.

    I kinda lucked out on the spring as one of their mechanics went 'diving for springs' noting the Trek/Bontrager wheels got it, DT Swiss hubs. I showed him a pic, and he came back with this:
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    Springs for the 240 and 350 are the same, so I'm calling it a win, and here's what the few dollar spring looks like:
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    I had brought the wheel with me, so threw it together outside and - success. Spins in one direction and locks in the other, woo hoo!
    Their shop was pretty decent sized, and had a pretty good selection of stuff - some eBikes, a lot of acoustic bikes, all kinds of gear and apparel, etc.. picked up a spare set of gloves, probably a bit more than online but at least they're local. Almost got some pants for my wife but they didn't have in her size.. I did pick up a random lock, as we may head to the coast for a day or so, and while I am not going to as much as move out of sight of the bikes, I want to at least lock them together, so got a cable lock for now. Really need to sort a better solution there eventually, but will do for right now..

    Got home and needed to pull the rear wheel, and swap the cassette and my Hope rotor for the new wheel.
    Confirmed the 'from-Luna' rear cassette is indeed a SRAM PG-1230 - it's stamped on the back. That's a serious set of stacked sprockets! Only the last 3 or 4 are pinned together, and the rest ar stacked with spacers.
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    Here's what the DT ratchets look like (they're both the same...EXP hubs are different but classic hubs use two of the same...)..36T in this case:
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    And finally - matching wheels, tubeless matching tires, and matching DT350 hubs..
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  • rtp
    commented on 's reply
    The main 'recommended' configuration is via the mobile app, which is kind of understandable as there are a LOT of settings in VESC desktop including comm protocols, I believe temp thresholds, motor direction, etc. I'll get some screenshots as I get and replace my V2 controller (supposed to make it here today...)... what I'm not sure but marcos can probably answer is how tunable the torque response and some of the ramps etc. are from within VESC vs in code.

    Having BT connectivity issues has pretty much limited my ability to poke at it but a solid run with datalogging enabled should show quite a bit if it's e.g. peak #s you're looking for.

    More as I get the controller swapped out and some time to play with it..

  • garbageman918
    Curious about the luda controller for the x2. Luna said they're putting a video together but they probably want it all fancy looking which might take a while. Can you show a video of the configuration process? Really curious how much they've been able to 'unlock' from the m600 and if you can dial in different torque/throttle settings based on individual preferences.

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  • rtp
    It nearly hit 70* today..had some stuff to do in the afternoon but threw together a 16 mile trip around a few lakes with the wife.
    An uneventful decent ride all around, although my ass is tiring of this seat (replacement coming this week, yay!).
    The JW front tire definitely reduces the knobby hum on pavement, just remains tough to tell by how much until I can get the rear hub sorted and the rear wheel swapped onto the bike - parts ordered and an email sent off to DT Swiss to confirm all I'm really missing seemingly is the outer spring.

    The LudiV2 seems to do it's own battery calculations - don't think can show raw voltage on the default display (will have to check if the app does...datalogging certainly should..), but came back with ~81% claimed...majority of the ride in 2 of 9, maybe 1/4 mile in 3 out of ~16 miles.

    Once I get the rear hub/tire sorted, will probably go ahead and try a couple of chainring sizes. I'm not sure where will wind up on this and do go back and forth - trail riding seems to overall average out at 10mph or so with mixed asphalt averaging out maybe 13-15mph, but definitely with some sections of higher speed. Getting the bike to a bit over 20mph is no problem, but haven't really hit a higher speed section towards the end of the ride, to see once tired how overall gearing and power is to reach 25-30mph.

    Meanwhile, while I do kinda like the 12s setup more than I thought I would, I'm still leaning towards eventual replacement with a 9s or 10s setup. Still thinking on this.

    Pic from a break in today's ride..

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  • rtp
    Misc Stuff
    We've gotten caught coming back past dark in trails and roads before, so picked up 'the best of the mid-range cheap headlights' to see what I think. They all claim excessive lumens which aren't possible to reach given their power sources, but I needed something and preferred simple for now - no battery pack, easy on and easy off.

    They claim something nuts like 4000 lumens (doubt it), but it checked the boxes - has an internal 18650 so I can always replace it easily if needed, simple enough controls (on - high - med - low - strobe - sos), it can be removed easily, and has a good # of solid reviews. For $25, I'm in! It's a 'Victagen 2022 bike headlight). Oh yeah, and it's calming weatherproof and usable as a power bank. We'll see..

    For the price, I'm kind of impressed. 3 LEDs, the mount comes with a rubber insert I just removed, and the mount is simple to pop the light in and out of.

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    I had also picked up the Ergon GP1 grips you can kinda see in the pics, but 'Santa' (ok, me, and putting a label on 'from my wife to me' ;) ) brought me a Granite Tire Patch end bar kit, and some anodized bar end inserts b/c I can't stand the cheesy plastic Ergon on those went as well:
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    Went ahead and cleaned and lubed the chain then went for a ride - had planned on going to the park and some trails, but it got later than expected so a random 12 mile road trip with the wife. Funny with the Johnny Watts up front but the Maxxis in rear at the moment... the knobby 'hum' seems like it's decreased but really a bit tough to tell for sure until I get the rear wheel swapped over.
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  • rtp
    We had a good Xmas, and I checked on the tires after exchanging gifts and waking up a bit...
    The good news - no problem, both tires happily holding air... so I went to swap them.
    The front went on painlessly, so on to the rear.

    I had picked up a DT Swiss 'Hybrid' driver which has a steel hub.
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    Removing the XD cassette - note once it's broken loose, you can leave the cassette nut on and pull the whole cassette and driver off the hub.
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    And removed - the spacer is normally sitting lower, with a spring under the pair of ratcheting gears..
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    Looks like someone greased it but not with DT red 'special' grease. I went ahead and cleaned and greased it up, put the HG driver on, and gave it a test in both directions.
    WTF - no freewheel / freespin.
    The hub should freespin and click/buzz in one direction, and lock in the other. Well, not this one..
    This was not making my Christmas a merry one..... especially as it took a while to locate the HG driver in stock anywhere...
    DT Swiss's site is pretty awesome - if you know exactly what you're looking for AND have a specific year/model # from your hubs - which I didn't.

    There's not much to the hubs - spacer, springs, and the ratchets are identical to each other. I threw the XS driver back on and - locks one way, spins the other. WTF?
    Pulled the ratchets out and I'm sure I figured out what's going on here, but not necessarily what I need to fix it parts-wise just yet.
    The XD driver is slightly shallower than the HG driver, which lets the outboard ratchet be fully encased by the driver body, and mating to the inboard ratchet, but the inboard ratchet can't slide into the XD freehub/driver...but the HG driver is slightlydeeper, which lets the inboard ratchet just barely lock up into the HG body, thus - locked in both directions.

    I did notice there was no outboard spring when I pulled the hub apart - might be year dependent, but I bet there's supposed to be a 1-2mm shim or shim + spring in the HG freehub. I've seen both on various parts diagrams - just need to figure out right part number for my 'magical unknown year DT350 hub' + Hybrid driver combo...

    So that was kind of a bummer...will have to do some parts hunting... so went ahead and swapped rotors to my red Hope floating rotor in the rear, thinking I'd probably need to do some filing there.
    Two things of interest:
    1. There is apparently a small washer on the non-drive side of the rear axle. It must have slid off the axle as I removed it and nearly missed it. One side is very slightly serrated. I had thought in looking at the frame that this sat on the inboard side of the swingers, but in asking a few others - seems to go on the outside, presumably serrations facing outwards to the axle lever handles.
    2. I didn't have to touch a thing in the rear for the floating rotor - I had to file a bit on the front caliper at the mount to clear the floating rotor 'rivets' but - all good in the rear.

    So ended the day with 2 floating rotors, but only one new wheel. Meh. Will go sort DT350 parts and hopefully have sorted for next week sometime..
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    Last edited by rtp; 12-26-2021, 05:45 AM.

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  • marcos
    commented on 's reply
    yeah, the bbshd does 25+Amps of field weakening and the M600 is doing about 7Amps of FW. Time will tell if the motor can handle a bit more FW. And yes the BT range is not as good as the bbshd...
    Merry Christmas!

  • StvMan

    Just had my first opportunity to try out my new X2 Ludi V2 … Love it … I did notice, however, that the “seat of the pants” field weakening isn’t as obvious as on my BBSHD Ludi V2. Specifically, the range of throttle RPM per gear is flatter (if that makes sense). Also noticed extremely limited Bluetooth range on my bike, as well as my brother’s bike. … will spend more time on it to give better feedback, but aside from some minor issues that I assume are learning curve related, I am pleased over the improvements over my X1 Ludi V1.

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  • rtp
    Wheels, Tires and Tubeless Milk

    With a combination of knowledge from El34's great X1 thread here(everyone should read his thread IMO) - and his comments about the Alex MD35 wheelset being 'rather heavy,' plus well - I like to work on most of my stuff until I get to 'it's now right for me,' as well as originally assuming I'd be doing a DIY from frame and parts ... I had looked into various wheel options ranging from China wheels to custom builds to 'screw this, it's not that hard - DIY' and everywhere in between. I looked at various hubs, and prices, and came down to DT Swiss DT350s as more or less bullet-proof, to the point they now make a DT350 'hybrid' specifically for e-bikes, and not too bad price-wise.

    This led to more of build vs buy, and just when I thought I'd be having a set custom built, I wound up with an eBay score - picked up a set of Raceface ARC 40(inner width) with DT350 hubs F/R. They've got some 'spare parts' on them I don't really want or need - brake rotors for the spares pile, and sadly they were set up for SRAM XD, but it's an easy enough swap to Shimano HG freehub...once you sort the parts.

    I'll do the conversion probably tomorrow after Xmas festivities, but knew I wanted to give tubeless a try - I'd considered it a number of times on my motorcycles but always ran HD tubes with a spare and tool why not give it a try?

    I also do some mixed road in with trail riding, so why not build up a full second wheelset, or at least wheels and tires and rotors (still debating on eventual drivetrain change so no more $ into that one for a bit until I start wearing it and decide..). I've run knobbies on my dual-sport bikes, at speed, so not gonna lie and say the 'knobby hum' really bothered me much on the X2, but asphalt also tears the heck out of off-road tires, so might as well save 'em as the Maxxis are pretty good tires off-road. I had found a decent compromise tire for my 650cc heavy dual-sport motorcycle but finding one for an eMTB wasn't nearly so simple. I got recommendations for 'super moto-x' which basically look like nothing I'd ever take off-road, so just dug in and did my own homework.

    The best-seeming candidates were the Schwalbe Marathon Plus MTB, and maybe one or two Continental or Kendas, some of which I couldn't get in the size I wanted, then I came across the Schwalbe Johnny Watts. From the look of the tread and the relatively little feedback I could find on it, this is probably as close as I'm going to get in a 'dual sport' on/off-road tire. I'm not sure it's specifically tubeless 'rated,' but well - guess we'll see.

    I found a nice coupon at Jenson at snagged a set shipped for like $90 - not too bad.

    I idd a crash course on tubeless. Interesting in that the 'milk' is basically a latex solution. I did my deep dive into that stuff 5 years back when we switched our mattress over to it (latex mattresses are pretty damned good), and while I guess it's possible, I've got a pretty strong feeling the majority of 'super duper tubeless special sauce' is all pretty close to each other. Either way, I went with 'Truckers Cream II' at @JRA's recommendation. Nice in that it arrived with a busted syringe - had emailed them on Amazon and got no response, but a week-ish later, two replacement syringes showed up in my mailbox. Kudos to them.

    The wheels already had rim tape on them for tubeless but in the sake of saying 'screw it,' I went ahead and removed it, used a microfiber rag with some isopropyl alcohol to clean up the inside of the rim, then went to town. Anyone doing this for the first time - it's easy. All you're really doing is taping off the spoke holes, mounting the tire, then letting the latest find and fill any holes. Of course, we'll see how well my first ones hold, but - it's not rocket science.

    I couldn't find any wider tape easily for my i40 rims, so went with Muck-off 35mm tape. My wife saw it and thought it was for wrapping Xmas presents - I'm sooo glad I caught her before she decorated wrapping paper with it or something. :)

    As I'm going for a black/red theme, I picked up some 40mm red presto valves from Amazon - basically some random China brand, MusQI or something, but they seemed OK. They actually came with some silicon pads to help seal the valve to the rim and a valve remover and some extra caps and o-rings..will see how they hold up.
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    While I was cleaning the rims, I opened up the tires fully and let them sit in the sun, not knowing just how loose or tight they may be on my wheels...the sun will help them loosen up slightly as well as help them be in their 'natural' round form, etc.

    No pics of taping the rims, but there are videos out there. I started ~7-8" 'before' the valve stem hole, wrapped it while holding tight and running my thumb down the center of the tape, and went ~7" or so past the other side of the valve stem hole. I went over it a few times to burp any bubbles mostly to the spoke holes, ran pressure around again on the center then on each side, then put the tire on.

    The first tire went onto the rim without a hitch...I couldn't find a spare spray bottle so mixed some soap and water and used a wheel brush to soap the outside of the tire/rim joint. I used a presta->Shrader valve adapter to hit the tires with some pressure and it 'popped' into the bead. Easier than doing motorcycle tires - the first one I did fully by hand without levers.

    The second one was a bit tighter-seeming, but I realize what I'd done - I had pushed the 'inside' tire to the bead of the rim on the outside before getting the 'outer'/other side of the tire past the bead. Pulling the opposite side of the tire to the center of the rim (the centers slop down a bit) gave me enough room/slack and that one was on as well.

    I intentionally seated the beads without putting any 'milk'/sealant in the tires - wanted to make sure they had a chance of sealing up before potentially making a mess with the milk.

    Both tires well-seated, I guessed a bit on the amount of mile/sealant to use - Truckers said 100ml, others say up to 200ml for 2.8" tires, so I think I went with ~140ml or so to start.

    After adding the milk through the valve with the core removed, popped the core in, pressurized to ~max pressure (~40PSI for these), put the valve cap on, swished the tire around on each side, then set down.

    We'll see tomorrow if they're holding air, but so far seeming ok.

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