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    Luna Apocalypse

    This thread is out of date, for latest manual you want this page as the scooter has been much simplified with latest revision.
    This is the information thread on the new product the Luna Apocalypse.

    This scooter is sold as a racing vehicle only and if you do ride it on the road its not intended for that use. If you ride in level 1 you are in under 750 watts and the scooter is very docile.

    There have been two versions so far.... we will cal lthem v1 and v2... .listed are key differences. V1 has gold wheels and v2 has black wheels.

    If you have questoin about your apocalypse scooter in this thread please state if its v1 or v2

    V1
    • shorter deck (by 5cm)
    • regen braking option (we ship them with regen turned off
    • Gold colored wheels and gold highlights



    V1.2
    • Steering Stem raises higher for taller riders (means more slack in the wiring)
    • Black color wheels and more random parts are black instead of colored
    • Extra 2 buttons on dash for single or double motor and Turbo.
    • No regen option in the dashboard.



    v2

    Bms cut off issue fixed
    Upgraded phase wires to rear wheel.
    black and gold rims


    v2 (currently available)
    Click image for larger version  Name:	apocalypse.jpg Views:	2 Size:	346.8 KB ID:	27538

    #2
    Knowledge base/ product instruction to be added

    All the items listed here will be covered in separate posts below.
    • Turning on the built in voltage meter (existing battery meter not accurate).
    • SIngle/double motor Turbo/Eco Mode Selector switch (v2 only)
    • Premature Battery Shutdown
    • Regen braking (v1 only)
    • Programming the scooter

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    Comment


      #3
      V2 Toggle Buttons

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      Ok here is the dash on V2..... it has two new options turbo/eco mode and single/double motor



      ECO TURBO Button
      we made this so it is easy for you to easily change to a docile power mode while riding.

      It is not safe to ride in high power mode all the time. If you are not planning to go fast ride in level 1 or 2.... do not ride in level 3.

      Turbo eco mode makes it easy to change levels wiithout stopping.

      Look at this crash I had where i was in high power mode.... i was moving at slow speed at 12 mph .. i was highly distracted because we were starting shooting a video and were in large group of riders....my hat blows off and i reach to grab my hat.... as i reach to grab my hat my other hand whose finger was on the throttle squeezed harder and the scooter just shot out from under me. Before this crash i rode in high power mode all the time....now i learned the hard way and dont do that anymore.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzgoGmgnWsM

      Single/Double motor

      Generally we recommend double motor mode all the time...its easier on the motors to have the extra motor to get started from dead stop etc....

      But single motor might be more efficient.

      This is a subject i would be interested in researching double hub motor vs single motor if anyone has seen any data. We may need to build a scooter dyno....

      But there is a good chance single motor is more efficient in some riding conditions than double motors.

      Also if you are cornering at high speed on a scooter race track...... single motor is more predictable until you get use to double motor.

      when climbing steep hills make sure you are in double motor mode.


      Comment


        #4
        Monitoring battery usage

        Like most batteries on ebikes the battery guage on the apocalypse is not very accurate.

        It reads high when it is full and then runs empty quickly.

        Many times these battery gauges are configured for 48v and you have a 52v battery which makes it less likely to be accurate.

        We have not tested enough to know how accurate the gauge is ....but its possible you can make it more accurate by adjusting a setting in the dashboard programming (see next thread for that)


        Apocalypse has Built in Voltage Meter!
        Click image for larger version  Name:	apcoalypse dashbaord 3.jpg Views:	2 Size:	172.1 KB ID:	27555


        But there is good news... the Apocalypse has a built in Voltage meter which is a much better way to estimate range than the regular gauge.

        To see the voltage of your battery hit the MODE button until the voltage displays at the bottom like in the above picture. (the 0059.0)

        This voltage is reading at 59 volts.

        But to use the voltage meter as a gauge you need to understand these things:
        1. Fully charged voltage is around 58-59v on a fully charged 52v battery
        2. Empty is around 40v...
        3. YOur scooter will slow down the lower the voltage drops
        4. A 52v battery battery should never be run under 37v and the scooter should shut itself off between 38 and 40v
        5. Under full power you will see the voltage sag....which is drop under what its resting voltage is. Voltage sag can cause the scooter battery to shut off before its empty.




        Comment


          #5
          Display Programming Instructions for Apocalypse and Super Scooter

          Please post in this thread if you find something different about these settings. We had to throw out the original display instruction manual because it was not correct. So these values we got from trial and error.\

          Each setting must be changed one at a time using the following procedure.

          To enter display programming mode press and hold the "POWER" AND "MODE" BUTTON at the same time while the scooter is ON.

          Then use the "power" and "mode" buttons to scroll through the different P settings (See below for a chart of the various settings).

          Go to the setting that you want to change - and hit the "power" button to enter the settings.

          Use the "power" button to scroll upwards, and the "mode" button to scroll downwards through the options. Select the option you want to use by pressing the "power" button. Press and hold the "power" and "mode" to save settings and return to the regular operation mode.

          Here is a video describing the above process : https://youtu.be/sgBoeJl9k00

          Here is summary of what each P setting does. More details on each settting later:

          P1 Low Voltage cut off 120-485 (385)
          P2 Motor Pole Pairs 0-14 (13)
          P3 Speedometer set (leave at 0)
          P4 MPH or KPH 0 or 1 (1)
          P5 Kickstart 0 or 1 (leave at 0)
          P6 Cruise Control (leave at 0)
          P7 Power Start 0 or 1 (0)
          P8 Power Level Setting 1-100 (100)
          P9 Regenerative Braking 0,1,2 or 3 (0)
          P0 wheel size diameter (10)


          P0 Mystery function we have set to 10. We are not sure what this does but it does seem to have something to do with speedometer calibration.


          P9 Regenerative Braking (ships on setting 0 with no regen.. 1 and 2 are different power level of regen braking.

          If you are going to use regen we highly suggest you use 1 only.

          We find the scooter is harder to ride with Regen braking, and should only be activated by advanced riders only. The regen is all on or all off (it is not variable) The advantage of regen braking is you will have less brake pad wear, and you will add a tiny bit of charge to your scooter when braking.



          P8 (power level setting) 5 - 100 dials back power of scooter. (ships with 100)


          P7 Power Start (0 or 1)

          0 = soft start..power comes on nice and smooth from dead stop. We ship in this setting and recommend it.




          P6 cruise control (do not use this function, it is not safe on high power scooter)


          P5 Kickstart

          (0 or 1)

          From a dead stop the scooter requires a kick to 2mph to get it started. We ship with this setting at 1 meaning it only takes a 2mph kick to get it going. Please keep it in this setting or higher…..this powerful scooter is dangerous with no kick start function. Do not put in setting 0.


          P4 mph or KMPH

          Sets your speed and mileage readouts to either miles or kilometers. We ship it set at mph.


          P3 speedometer Set

          Leave it set at 0 or speedometer wont work


          P2 motor polepairs

          This is for calibrating the speedometer. We have it set for 13.


          P1 Voltage Cut Off

          Low voltage cut off on the scooter. We like to set this number at 385. Note the battery has its own low voltage cut off.


          P9 Regenerative Braking: (not available on all models)

          0 for none . 1 and 2 are different power level of regen braking. 2 being the highest.

          We find the scooter is harder to ride with Regen braking, and should only be activated by advanced riders only. The advantage of regen braking is you will have less brake pad wear, and you will add a tiny bit of charge to your scooter when braking. The disadvantage especially in the higher levels is the Regen kicks in hard. If you are going to use regen only use in regen level 1.



          P8 (Power Level Setting): 5 - 100 dials back power of scooter. (ships with 100)


          P7 Power Start (0 or 1)

          0 = soft start..power comes on nice and smooth from dead stop. We ship in this setting and recommend it.




          P6 cruise control (do not use this function, it is not safe on high power scooter) with this set to 1 the scooter will keep going even when you let off throttle until you apply brake.


          P5 Kickstart

          (0 or 1)

          From a dead stop the scooter requires a kick to 2mph to get it started. We ship with this setting at 1 please keep it this way…..this is a powerful scooter is dangerous with no kick start function. The problem is with no start its easy to accidentally throttle a parked scooter.


          P4 mph or KMPH

          (0 or 1)

          1 = mph 2 = kmph

          Sets your speed and mileage readouts to either miles or kilometers. We ship it set at mph.



          P3 speedometer Set

          Leave it set at 0 or speedometer wont work


          P2 motor polepairs

          This is for calibrating the speedometer. We have it set for 13.


          P1 Voltage Cut Off

          Low voltage cut off on the scooter. We like to set this number at 385. Note the battery has its own low voltage cut off.

          Comment


            #6
            Apocalypse Battery Cutting Off Prematurely

            We have noticed that the Apocalypse as it runs down its charge will sometimes have the battery shut down far before its completely empty.

            IF you connect your Apocalypse to the charger for a few seconds and then look at the voltage read out using the instructions above, if your scooter has more than 42v left in the battery than this is probably what happened.

            What is causing this problem? When the Apocalypse is at high power it is pulling a lot of amps which can cause voltage sag, which may drop the voltage down to a lower level than the battery protection system will allow and the BMS is shutting itself off.

            Low voltage shut down should happen around 44v on this scooter, but its happening around 49 volts because of voltage sag.

            The core of the problem is normally you could recycle the on/off switch and this would restart the BMS and get to work again. The on/off switch on the Apocalypse is not a true on/off switch (it does not cut off power completely) so there is no convenient way to get battery to restart..

            This is not an occurrence that happens all the time and can happen on some rides and not happen on others. This only happens when the battery is about half empty and you pare pushing hard on the throttle.



            Tips to prevent premature cut off
            • Charge your scooter to 100 percent when you charge it.
            • when the scooter gets below 52 volts do not ride in level 3.
            • Avoid hard starts when under 52 volts

            Tricks to get the BMS to restart after it has tripped
            • Charging for even a second will get it to trip back on.
            • Hot wiring to another battery 24volt or higher should get it to trip (do this through the charge port)
            • Unplugging the battery and plugging it back in will get it to restart. (involves taking the deck off)

            We recommend packing a charger if you are gong to take longer rides so if this problem happens you can easily get your scooter going by plugging into any available 110 outlet you see to get going again.

            We are working on coming up with another solution.

            Solutions we are considering:
            • a tiny battery pack that you can carry with you to jump the scooter back to life if it dies. (if this happens to you please tell us the minimal voltage you are able to restart to help us develop this pack. )
            • Developing a true on/off switch you can add (will take 30 minutes to install)

            Comment


            • Eric Luna
              Eric Luna commented
              Editing a comment
              For sure we think we will have a very cheap solution to this problem soon.

            • Roose Hurro
              Roose Hurro commented
              Editing a comment
              A true on/off switch? Simply install a keyed "ignition" switch that disconnects the battery. And provides increased security.

            • jakethe5nake
              jakethe5nake commented
              Editing a comment
              The whole point of having this dual motor "Apocalypse ludicrous" scooter is to push it hard right? If the low voltage cut off happens at half battery, it cuts everything else in half - 52v 24ah Panasonic GA battery becomes a 12ah battery, range 30miles goes to 15 miles. I think this should be highest priority bug to fix considering the Apocalypse ludicrous price tag. Since the voltage sag gets below the cutoff perhaps this should have been a 60v lithium with slightly less parallel cells?
              Last edited by jakethe5nake; 04-12-2017, 10:23 AM.

            #7
            Loving mine, it's rediculously fun - become my go-to for getting around (I am doing a lot less cycling :P). Really appreciate the support after buying it too :-)

            Only major issue I have found is the early cut-off issue you mentioned - a big deal for my daily commute as I do ~30km per day through the middle of nowhere - I can't really afford to get cut-off 5-10km from the nearest road, so I go slow :( An easy-to-install hard reset button would be amazing, would definitely buy.

            Few quirks/tricks I have picked up - for some reason the speed indicator was really inaccurate for my speed in kilometres, so I changed the 'wheel size' down to 7 - now it matches what my gps speedo says.

            The battery indicator bars seems to be purely set by current voltage - by bumping up the under voltage level to the most it will permit (43.5v?), the battery icon actually goes down and I can watch it go up and down as I accelerate/let go. It still dies somewhere in the middle of three bars, but at least I can tell to drop back from full power when it goes below full bars without having to change it into volt mode every time. As far as I can see, this doesn't seem to actually impact the battery cutoff threshold in any way - I cut out at 50v either way under level 3 with dual motors when I hit the throttle, and I can only get down to ~46v no matter what combination of speed/motors.

            I get a lot more range out of riding on rear-motor only, the voltage drop hitting the throttle on one motor seems to be much less dramatic, and as a result I can get down to 46-47v under load on one motor, but two motors would cut out at 50v. On two motors @ level 3, I would be flat in 20km - on one motor at level 3 I have done 45km and still at 47v under load. Unless you guys do your long rides on level 1 eco mode with a single motor and lots of downhill, I have no clue how you manage to do 50miles+ (75km+!), I have never got below 45v before it shut down, and even on level 1 with a single motor on eco, that is around 50-55km for me. Most of my rides are pancake flat too, so that wouldn't seem to be the cause.

            If anyone has been looking for replacement tires, until luna starts to stock them I found the ones that shipped with my scooter over here. Not particularly cheap once you include shipping, but I was struggling to find any that I would know fit before actually needing them.

            Oh, and minor thing that probably can't be changed easily - I would love a way to make the brake indicators always-on when the lights are on. I need a rear red light to ride at night here - still trying to find something I can stick on with a battery, but that's kind of a tacky and awkward workaround.
            Last edited by matt; 02-16-2017, 02:14 AM.

            Comment


            • Eric Luna
              Eric Luna commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks for your feedback this really helps.

              Yes the voltage sag is normal when you are putting out this kind of power.

              We do have replacement tires for the Apocalypse we will be putting up on website soon. They are also fatter than the stock tires.

              Good point on the rear light. We will add a battery powered LED light to future orders. So you get brake light and rear light.

              The low voltage cut off is around 45 volts with this bms which is pretty standard for a lot of these 52v battery bms.

            • Touch415
              Touch415 commented
              Editing a comment
              I bought some cheap rear bicycle led light, works perfect and super bright and can be charge with USB.. I wrap it around the rear shock works beauty

            #8
            Click image for larger version

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            Comment


            • Eric Luna
              Eric Luna commented
              Editing a comment
              what happened when you tried to post a pic?

            • matt
              matt commented
              Editing a comment
              It's automatically 1:1 with the original image size, so unless you are trying to post a thumbnail, it's kinda huge and awkward to shrink to size.

            #9
            Click image for larger version

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ID:	28331 Bought them from amazon

            Comment


            • matt
              matt commented
              Editing a comment
              Ahh - good idea, I hadn't seen stretchy band attachment ones.

              I had been trying to think how to bolt a mounting on without making a mess of the fender.
              Amazon hates my country, but found a similar stretchy-band one on ebay - if the band isn't big enough, I think a cable-tie around the shock mount will work.

              Thanks!
              Last edited by matt; 02-21-2017, 05:09 AM.

            #10
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ID:	28333 They work pretty good

            Comment


              #11
              Eric . . . take a look at the GoCaddy Golf Cart. They use a hoverboard scooter and make a golf cart out of it. I don't want a golf cart but could you put the two extra wheels on your scooter to make it more stable???

              Thanks.

              Comment


                #12
                Finally achieved 1 bar.
                Feathering it along at half throttle in level 1 / eco / single wheel - made it home without a cut-out though!
                Last edited by matt; 02-21-2017, 05:20 AM.

                Comment


                • Touch415
                  Touch415 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  That's pretty cool the battery gauge actually move..

                • matt
                  matt commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Change P1 to 435 or so (43.5v), and yours should too :)

                #13
                I got a flat a few days ago, considering replacing the tube myself. What size wrench do I need to turn the nut on the rear wheel? Hoping to buy the wrench this evening, the ones at home dont fit, and it's on really tight. a 19 wrench started to eat into one of the corners of the nut. Already got the tire remover, tire seater, new tube. Please help!

                I've been riding for about 2 weeks (scooter odo is at ~100 when it occured, which is probably more like 70mi. Good to know that it doesn't just throw you off when the tire goes flat.
                Last edited by Lancer409; 03-11-2017, 04:50 PM. Reason: added ride time (2weeks with the scooter) before the tire blew.

                Comment


                • Itselectric
                  Itselectric commented
                  Editing a comment
                  18mm wrench. I would invest in a full set. I had the same thing happen on my scooter but ended up going through 4 tubes and blowing out my tire completely. Once you get the tire off, I used motorcycle tire spoons, check the inner rim for wear and wires. I tried many different things but you don't want to change this tire much because it's easy to stretch it too much and ruin it completely. See post above with link to tires if you find you need one. It may be that you caught a thorn or punctured your tube slightly, if that's the case you might try SLIME and see if that fixes it. If it's like mine where slime didn't work and it's a fault with the tire... I would get some flex seal (sprayable rubber) and coat the wires and wear on the inner parts of the tire. Don't over do it because you'll loose uniformity in your tire. Also, be supper careful not to twist your hub motor too much as you'll ruin the wires going into the motor. Lastly, don't press too hard down and bend your break rotor. This tire is a bitch to change... good luck.

                • Lancer409
                  Lancer409 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I bought bike tire removers, instead of motorcycle ones. It didn't occur to me that there would be motorcycle ones, and that they'd be better. They were nice metal ones too... Also a tire installer that saves the tube from being pinched, which was recommended by the person who man's their facebook acct. Oh, and a tube to replace if patching didn't work.

                  The 18mm wrench is the correct size, but I couldn't get the nut off. I guess I should say I was putting a fair amount of pressure, and was afraid that I would bend the rod before the nut would come loose. Was it hard for you as well? Did you just crank really hard?

                  Not wanting to break the rod or permanantly damage the scooter, I decided to take it to a local bike shop. It cost me $30 for labor to get the tube replaced at a local shop. They told me they'd check for debris and let me know the cause of the flat.

                  In my case, it was due to the tube being low on air. He said it was due to the tire being rougher on the inside than a bike tire. When the pressure was low, it apparently chewed up the inner tube. He showed me the wear marks and the holes. He also checked my front tire after replacing the rear tube and found that the psi were in the 20s.I'm not sure if it came with less than 45psi, or if both tires lost ~20psi in two weeks, but you all ought to check your tire pressure asap just in case.

                  I didn't check to see how tight the nuts are on, and whether or not I'd be able to get into it next time I get a flat.

                  Are you able to disconnect the motor and take out the whole wheel, or does it have to stay tethered to the frame due to the wiring?

                • Eric Luna
                  Eric Luna commented
                  Editing a comment
                  we now have upgraded tires on the website which are fatter, handle better and will not wear as fast. https://lunacycle.com/scooter-parts/

                #14
                i check my tires pressure every single time just to make sure they have the right amount.. air does come out of them from riding ... man sound a a flat tire is going to be a bitch to change...

                Comment


                • Eric Luna
                  Eric Luna commented
                  Editing a comment
                  we are going to do a video soon on how to do it ...its not that bad..but a pain in the ass for sure. Much better if you have the right levers.

                #15
                Maybe not. I just got nervous because I didn't want to bend the bolt that holds everything together. It's probably a lot stronger than I think it is. I just didnt want to risk damaging the scooter.

                I filled it with air last night. (ps, does the air coming out of the tube smell funky to you too?). As I type this at my desk, I smell a bit of that funky tire-air smell leaking out around me.


                Touch, you mentioned commuting daily for work (12 miles per day?). Are you checking your scooter nearly every day?

                Comment


                • Touch415
                  Touch415 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  No I don't check my tires everyday only on very long trips, which it's on the weekend sometimes .. I don't know about the funky tire smell..lol.. I never notice it ...hahahah
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