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Luna Apex Bike - ask us anything

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  • #31
    Do you guys know if that bracket for the g510 is the same as the bracket needed for the g330? Meaning, if i had a g330 with a welded bracket, would i be able to directly replace it with a g510 or more specifically a luna edition g510 into that same bracket?
    Last edited by dennis09x; 1 week ago. Reason: spelling

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    • paxtana
      paxtana commented
      Editing a comment
      Sorry, don't know the answer to that one.

    • max_volt
      max_volt commented
      Editing a comment
      They need to standardize that fit but maybe that would mean loss of sales.

  • #32
    The APEX sales page states 40 MPH and a "true 40 mile range". Does that mean that each battery will only last an hour of hard riding?

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    • paxtana
      paxtana commented
      Editing a comment
      Not unless you find 40 miles of road you can ride a bike on nonstop at 40mph..
      I don't know about you but most of my surface street speed limits don't even go up that high.

    • scrambler
      scrambler commented
      Editing a comment
      I guess what he means, is that it would be nice to know what exactly does true 40 miles range means. Is that when using throttle only, and if so at what sustained speed.

      Range is always a tricky questions on a pedal assist electric bike as there are so many variables, but a little more qualification of that 40 miles number would be nice :)
      Last edited by scrambler; 1 week ago.

  • #33
    Ok fair point. This is from the bbs wiki, Apex motor is similar to hotrod bbshd. The battery in the Apex is equivalent to more than TWO ga shark packs.

    BBSHD full throttle ~20 miles with a ga shark pack.

    Let's say we are looking at a BBSHD mid-drive kit with hot rod settings. That is going to use about 30wh/mi, on average if you are hammering it full throttle the whole way. Now let's say you have a 52v 13.5AH GA shark pack. This is the de facto standard battery pack for most builds. It has about 700 WH. So that's going to do about 23.3 miles at full throttle, throttle only no pedal assist. With a medium level of pedal assist and a bit slower speed, you might have double that range.
    You can also program it for lower current for even more range if you wanted. You could probably manage 100 miles or more with the right combination of settings, speeds and shifting.

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    • #34
      I dunno, you need to give me one to test. I have 40 miles of straight flat road in Nevada.

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      • #35
        This bike is revolutionary, and the ad copy and feature set show it off pretty convincingly; it very compelling. Beautiful.

        I thought the sales page was well-written. Comparison bikes to put it in perspective. The care taken to explain 'off road' with the supporting page is good to see, too.

        Congrats on the launch!!
        Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

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        • #36
          From what I understand, the controller cannot hold several power modes that you could easily switch between (like a 750W "street legal" mode and a full 2500W mode)

          If that is so, is the PC programming tool for the controller available to any buyer of the bike, so they can eventually change it, and does it require a specific cable of just a regular USB one?

          Comment


          • paxtana
            paxtana commented
            Editing a comment
            https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...ase-give-ideas
            This is the link to the discussion on it if you want to put forth any suggestions on desired features.

            BTW how did you quote inside of a comment? I didn't know that was possible in anything but a top level reply.

          • scrambler
            scrambler commented
            Editing a comment
            Thanks for the link.
            Regarding quoting inside comments, I just clicked quote on one of your post to get the content of the quote tag that references you, then built the quote manually with it :)

          • Robocam
            Robocam commented
            Editing a comment
            Will the software at this link work to program the Ultra? https://penoff.wordpress.com/2016/01...sion-software/
            Last edited by Robocam; 5 days ago.

        • #37
          Forgive my ignorance and attempt for clarification before I drop $7k+ on the Apex as my first electric bike. I agree that it has everything I want. What I am trying to figure out, more than range, is how long I can expect to ride on normal trails and roads in hours if I were riding with someone else on a normal ebike like a Specialized. More likely scenario is me on the APEX and my buddies on their standard pedal mountain bikes. I just don't want to buy it and be disappointed that I can only ride for an hour.

          Comment


          • scrambler
            scrambler commented
            Editing a comment
            That is a very hard question to answer. If you are going to ride along on trails with other mountain bikes, The amount of power you could be using can vary many folds.
            It will depend on the type of trails, flat / steep, smooth / rugged, as well as how hard you would be pedaling along (if at all...).

            The battery is 1.5kWh, This mean it can provide 1500W for an hour, or 500W for 3 hours, or 250W for 6 hours.
            If you buy the 1500W bike model, and if you would use it at max power continuously, you could only do that for an hour. But let us face it, you would then not be riding along your friends, but way ahead :)

            But if you are going to pedal along, you may only be using 250 to 500W of power assist on average, with some momentary peaks of power, and in that case, you could be going on for several hours.

            So it is impossible to answer your question in a generic manner, as it will vastly depending on where you will be riding, and how.

            BUT, an other way to look at it, is that most eMTB are using a 350W Motor (600W peak) and a 500Wh battery, and on a non electric bike, the man power is usually at 200W max.

            So if you are riding along bikers with non electric bikes, you should theoretically be able to ride for more than 6 hours as you would not use much more than the power they can produce (~200W).
            If you are riding along other eMTB, they could be using their own 200W plus the 350W from the motor, or 550W.
            If you ride along without pedaling at all, you could do that for almost 3 hours. And that is assuming they are riding at the maximum of their capacity all the times, which is unlikely. They could also only use their 350W for 1.5hours. You would still have at least double their energy capacity.

            So in summary if you are following along someone on a regular eMTB, assuming their average combined power usage would be between 300W to 500W, you could do that without pedaling for 3 to 5 hours. If you pedal as hard as they do, you can do that for a longer time.

            But if you go crazy running circles around them, all bets are off :)
            Last edited by scrambler; 1 week ago.

          • paxtana
            paxtana commented
            Editing a comment
            Yeah there's basically no way you would only get an hour out of it on trails. Even with my Ludicrous BBSHD and 14 AH shark pack I get at least a couple hours of hard trail riding. With its 28 AH pack and Ludicrous Ultra that Apex would get me like 4 hours.

            And without Ludicrous (or just dialing down the current in the Ludi controller to the normal level) might tack on an extra hour or two to those figures.

            As long as you are still downshifting when going up hills like a regular bicycle there's just no way you will be going anywhere near your maximum power level on a trail for anything more than a second or two. The thing that really takes a lot of power is when you are going at top speed due to wind resistance, and it is impossible to go 40MPH on trails.

        • #38
          Although I will say something, wait for Paxtana or someone in the know to reply. Imagine buying a car with gas mileage rating between 15mpg and 100mpg. Salesmen would be pulling their hair out trying to answer the questions. E-bikers feel this frustration everyday because it is the first question people ask. Poking around at Levo speeds you are the top of the range. I single track for 2 hours with 12ah battery.

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          • #39
            Thanks so much for the reply. I get the science but wanted to hear what people are experiencing in real life. Those replies were perfect. Now I just need to decide $5k with diore or $7k with rohloff
            Last edited by Oldskoolbuckets; 1 week ago.

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            • #40
              I have questions regarding the Bafang Ultra that Luna is selling. Does the throttle function in assist level zero? Does the throttle allow maximum power in all assist levels? I was told that on the regular Bafang Ultra, the maximum available throttle varies depending on the assist level, so full throttle in assist 1 would not be as powerful as full throttle in assist 2. Can the Bafang Ultra be programmed by the general public through a programming cable the same way the HD can? If I get the Ludicrous, can I change the current limit myself? What's the difference between SPORT and ECO mode? Which display is included with the Luna Bafang Ultra?
              Last edited by Robocam; 6 days ago.

              Comment


              • Robocam
                Robocam commented
                Editing a comment
                I've noticed that in some production bikes with the Ultra, the throttle does not function in assist level zero and that the throttle also varies with assist level. They have 2 modes, SPORT and ECO.
                Last edited by Robocam; 5 days ago.

              • scrambler
                scrambler commented
                Editing a comment
                "Who told you it can be programmed? "
                I emailed Luna about being able to have two modes, one at 750W and one at full power, and they answered it was not possible.
                I would love if that was not the case :)

                I then asked if we could have access to the programing to change the power ourselves, and they said yes with the proper cable (which they sell).
                See my post #36 above in this thread
                Last edited by scrambler; 5 days ago.

              • Robocam
                Robocam commented
                Editing a comment
                Ah, I see it. Thanks.

            • #41
              Yes you can use the throttle in level zero on the Apex.

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              • #42
                Question: I have an Apex on order (and the wait is excruciating). Would I be able to put different rims on the Apex and put on 2.5in tires?

                Comment


                • scrambler
                  scrambler commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I don't see why not, the swing arm and the fork will look a bit strange with the space left over, but nothing can stop you from mounting the existing hubs in a different rim.

              • #43
                Ironically the coolest thing about the Apex is the thing that is making me hesitate to make the plunge.

                On a standard frame bike with a BBSHD I can use a backpack battery and go into semi-stealth mode, which I do on mountain bike trails, not because I am doing anything illegal, just to keep a low profile. Most people don/t even notice its an e-powered bike.

                But with that sexy Apex frame no amount of back-pack battery will keep it from screaming "I am the latest and greatest in ebike technology!"

                But it has everything else I have wanted so I might go for it anyway.

                Unless there are some standard-ish frame bikes with the ultra drive coming out soon?

                What is the pedal drag like in non-powered mode on the Ultra drive? Similar to BBSHD?

                I've also heard the cyclone mini in the 5000 carbon fatbike is similar to the Tangent in not having hardly any noticeable pedal drag. Any experience there?

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                • #44
                  what is the rear travel, and geometry of the bike in XL? whats the effect of fork choice on how slack it is? everything about the lauf is cool, except the little voice in my head, that says "youve regressed to HeadShock travel". that and i dont see a point in 150mm in the rear and 60mm in front.... its like... a mullet.

                  this is the first dedicated frame e-bike ive considered. ive been sold on the "bolt on" electric for being modular, up-gradable, and reversible... and the big brand bikes are wimpy and way to spendy. one can make a hell of an electric mountain bike thru luna, and have money left for a hell of an electric road bike, for what the LBS specialized dealer wants.

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