Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Canondale "Super V-lectric" build

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Hey,
    Fantastic application of mechanical and electrical technology Mister Jose'
    Center Of Gravity ?
    I think it will be nice and LOW
    MV
    Last edited by Mike_V; 04-25-2020, 09:44 PM. Reason: name & spelling

    Comment


      #17
      Appreciate the feedback, Mike.

      Yep, keeping mass low on the frame was in the plan.

      The motor placement is great on this frame as it can rotate way up, but it is still about 1/2" lower than the BB. I almost wish I had gone the Mini Cyclone route to really tuck the motor up high, but I'm thinking that when I start using the "V-lectric" for my summer commuting to work that thought will vanish.

      On another note, when I was riding regularly, the little fella was carrying 265lb of my frame. I am down to 250 now, and want to hit more around 240. I figure if at 265 the bike was just fine hauling me around, then at 240 the motor/battery weight is a non-issue for the suspension. I'll still be a clydesdale, but haul-assing clydesdale thanks to all the tasty torque on tap.

      I was originally going to just have a single stack battery on top of the seat post tube, and carry a spare. The more learned about how voltage and amperage balance out, I became convinced I had to build-in as much capacity as possible, given the space I was working with. The L-shape seemed the best way to get there.

      Feels like I am almost there now. I ordered a battery cutoff from Luna. When that gets here, I add it to my battery case design, and can button it all up.

      When this bad boy is on the road, I will figure out what to do about a portable charger. If I can find a really small 3A power supply, I can print up a case that could hold it, and another one of the voltage converters I use now.

      Jose
      Last edited by DaHose; 04-26-2020, 02:49 PM.

      Comment


        #18
        VEE Battery
        Such a fantastic creation, you'll push your tires leaning into the curves, like a V twin.

        Comment


          #19
          Hi everyone,

          I have another installment of my project progress. The next item on the list was deciding how to encase the battery. I used the 1/8" ABS sheet I cut and put it together using 8-32 hurricane nuts, with stainless hardware. I needed some unusual spacers to make everything work since the hurricane nuts had a tall neck. I used my nifty little 3D printer to make washers that were 1mm thick, with a shoulder to hold the washer in place. The center is big enough to fit around the neck of the hurricane nut, and spaces the washer up enough so the screw can pull it all together without the washer bottoming out on the neck of the hurricane nut. You can see how the hurricane nuts portrude from the ABS sheet in the pic below. Cutting off the corner was necessary so I could fit it to the aluminum angle that holds the pieces to gether. It all worked out great!

          Click image for larger version  Name:	batterycaseinside.jpg Views:	0 Size:	340.3 KB ID:	108018

          With the basic case ready, I needed to finish the battery itself. I re-did the main load/charge connector wiring to use an XT60 connector inside. That is so I can remove the top cap for dis-assembly. I also ran a pair of wires to the far back, so I can add a separate charge connector.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	batterywconnect.jpg Views:	0 Size:	429.0 KB ID:	108019


          To finish wrapping the battery. I started by using some smaller wrap to hold the ABS protective side skins on, then finished by wrapping a 320mm tube on. I used my seal-a-meal to seal one end. Now the entirety of the lower section, up to the middle of the top section is water tight.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	batteryprewrap.jpg Views:	0 Size:	492.8 KB ID:	108020Click image for larger version  Name:	batteryfinalwrap.jpg Views:	0 Size:	582.8 KB ID:	108021


          With the battery ready to go into the case I made, I wrapped it in padding, and put into the case.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	batteryfirstfit.jpg Views:	0 Size:	380.2 KB ID:	108022

          At this point pictures were less of a priority than trying to finish and go for a test ride ...... aaaaaaannnnnddddddd HERE IS THE MAIDEN VOYAGE!!!!!!! I started in my biggest rear gear, and it would instantly wheelie. Had to shift to the middle cog, and then things worked out much better.




          You can see in the last frames of the video that I 3D printed a top cap, and also that the battery turned out pretty friggin huge. That resulted in a problem turning my bars lock-to-lock. So it was back to the drawing board, to re-think the whole thing. Rather than completely scrap what I had so far, I decided that if I put the case on a diet, I could modify the top and rear cap designs to make for a more compact package. This is where I am at now.

          Click image for larger version  Name:	battncase1.jpg Views:	0 Size:	446.4 KB ID:	108023Click image for larger version  Name:	battncase2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	450.2 KB ID:	108024

          The middle section has to be taller due to the extra parallel pack on top of the battery, but the end that will be nearest the rider is a full 2" shorter. The new rear cap I am designing will enclose the rear completely. I hope to have the two end caps printed in the next couple of days, and I will make a better post dedicated to showing off the final battery build.

          Jose
          Last edited by DaHose; 06-16-2020, 06:24 PM.

          Comment


            #20
            Well tonight it all finally came together. I have completed my build of the Super V-Lectric 1000, and I have the pictures to prove it!

            First off, if we look down into the top of the battery, there is some space inside for me to use an XT60 connector. I add some dense foam to fill in the empty space when it’s all put together.

            Click image for larger version

Name:	battop2.jpg
Views:	179
Size:	393.5 KB
ID:	108556

            The reason for the XT60 in the top, is so I can quickly remove the whole top cap, where the cutoff switch is located.

            Click image for larger version

Name:	battop3.jpg
Views:	148
Size:	265.1 KB
ID:	108557

            I am using the cutoff I bought from Luna for now, but I have a more robust unit on the way. I plan to install a digital temp. gauge as well, which could require a re-design. I plan to wait until I have both parts to make that decision.

            The battery top cap fits very nicely, and the controls look really clean. The main output connector is an XT90.

            Click image for larger version

Name:	batttop4.jpg
Views:	167
Size:	333.0 KB
ID:	108558


            The battery bottom cap has a more complex shape that seals off the top, and tucks into the inside of the battery. It also holds the XT60 charge connector.

            Click image for larger version

Name:	battbottom1.jpg
Views:	155
Size:	295.5 KB
ID:	108559Click image for larger version

Name:	battbottom2.jpg
Views:	148
Size:	438.4 KB
ID:	108560

            Here you can see that I will need to use a bit of sealant to make the fit water tight.

            Click image for larger version

Name:	battcasegap.jpg
Views:	156
Size:	649.7 KB
ID:	108561

            The battery won’t be able to completely submerge without worry, but rain falling on it should not be able to get in. The battery inside is totally sealed into a case as well, so I feel really good about water resistance.


            Here are a couple shots of the full battery. The second shot lets you see the bike name on the top cap, and that is a US Marine Corps logo (Eagle, Globe & Anchor) on the end of the bottom cap. I plan to fill in the logos with enamel paint.

            Click image for larger version

Name:	builtbatt.jpg
Views:	153
Size:	378.2 KB
ID:	108562Click image for larger version

Name:	batterylogos.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	212.6 KB
ID:	108563


            Now on to the bike!

            Here you can see the battery tray pieces I made. There is an upper tray that mounts using two stainless clamps around the main tube. The lower tray just uses the water bottle bosses to mount.

            Click image for larger version

Name:	batttray1.jpg
Views:	153
Size:	452.5 KB
ID:	108564

            The entire motor, and battery mount assembly is a combination of bolted and some riveted joints that allows me to easily/completely take everything off if I want. Every part of this build was meant to be bolt on, so I could remove everything and go back to pedal power. I figured who knows, maybe I will want to transfer the parts to another frame some day, so prepare for that possibility.

            Here you can see that I found some great metal buckles to hold things together. The Velcro straps loop through the top part of the buckle, and attach to themselves. Mounting the battery, and adjusting the straps is really easy.

            Click image for larger version

Name:	bttray2.jpg
Views:	152
Size:	519.1 KB
ID:	108565

            I could have just used the Velcro straps, but I think the metal buckles are better for two reasons. First, they look cool, but more important is that they hold rock solid, and you just squeeze to release. With both buckles on the same side, I can really quickly yank off the battery in an emergency, and I can easily do it blind. I consider the buckles an important safety feature given how scary it can be if something goes wrong with a high power lithium pack.

            Jose

            Comment


              #21
              I can only put 10 pictures in each post, so here is a good look at the whole bike, with battery mounted.

              Click image for larger version  Name:	fullbike2.jpg Views:	3 Size:	965.7 KB ID:	108567

              I originally purchased my kit at the end of last year (my family lets me pick my christmas gifts ), so its taken me about 6 months to complete the whole project. The motor mounting, and bike assembly went pretty quick. It was figuring out the battery, and assembling it all that really took a long time.

              One thing I started thinking more about is the size of the battery pack. I built it as a 16S6P because many members of the forum talked about how much they regretted building a small pack their first time around. Mainly because they started riding their ebike everywhere, and immediately wanted way more range. So I went with a high capacity build. While I have a lot of range, the pack is pretty big/heavy, and I wonder how it will ride in the hills.

              Now that I understand what I am doing I'm thinking of designing a second pack that is 16S3P. It will end up having WAY less range, but will be much smaller, and half the weight. The really cool thing is that I will be able to design it from scratch to be 3D printed, which should really help make the construction really compact. We'll see how that goes.

              For now, I am extremely happy with how it has turned out, and can’t wait to get out on the trails with my buddy who's Specialized Ebike inspired the whole project. I need to get my wheels trued, and then I will take the Super V-lectric out to see how long it takes me to get to work on the local bike trail, which goes right to the college where I work.

              Jose
              Last edited by DaHose; 06-26-2020, 11:13 PM.

              Comment


                #22
                I think I should quickly add that there are two mechanical upgrades shown in the picture above which I did not detail.

                First , I added a PNW dropper seat post. It works great, and when set properly for my full pedal stroke, it drops the saddle still well above the end of the battery, while also clearing the suspension nicely.

                Second, I thought my air shock was failing, and all my reading indicated that a coil shock might be better for my build as it handles small bumps better. The main disadvantages I could find about using a coil shock were higher weight, and less convenient adjustment for load. Well, with this build low weight parts aren't really a topic of concern, and once dialed-in the load won't vary much. I also realized that with the upgraded swingarm, my 1999 frame could actually handle a little more suspension travel and still be around a 68 degree head angle. I looked around for a shock I could use to test my idea, and the DNM shock that comes stock on a SurRon seemed to fit the bill. I picked up a 210mmX61mm RCP2 with a 550lb spring for $119. I figured it would be an inexpensive way to verify the size and spring weight are correct. If the spring feels right, then I could reuse that with a higher quality shock of the same length, or go shorter if need be. First impressions are that the length is right, and the shock is suprisingly good. When I am at speed, it really soaks up hits like railroad crossings, and heavily potholed pavement without the initial harshness I used to feel in my air shock. Right now sag on that 550lb spring is at about 32%, and it really should be closer to 25%. I'll play with my preload and see if I can't get that number better. If not, I guess I will need about a 50 lb heavier spring.

                Jose

                Comment


                  #23
                  I have a quick update with better pics of both sides.

                  I added a rubber strip on top of the battery to help reduce scratching against the aluminum framing when I stop. I think that works, so the next thing will be to make a neoprene cover that will cover the top of the battery, on that back part that I straddle when I stop.
                  My weight felt like it was too heavy on my wrists, so I changed out the steering stem to a 110mm with 31.8 degree rise.
                  I still have to dial in sag on the suspension.
                  I also changed out my tires to a pair of Serfas Drifters in 26X2.1. That feels WAY more stable an in control than the Continentals I had on there.
                  I will update this thread when I have been riding it for some commute time, but the couple of weekend jaunts around the neighborhood were an absolute HOOT!

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	supervlectric1000right.jpg
Views:	117
Size:	684.8 KB
ID:	109791 Click image for larger version

Name:	supervlectric1000left.jpg
Views:	106
Size:	583.3 KB
ID:	109792

                  Comment


                  • tklop
                    tklop commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I really love the way the Cannondale turned out--it's really an awesome machine!

                    I've enjoyed watching your project come together, and the evolution of your design-choices.

                    I like how you've made everything accessible, modular, and that even when building your own battery, you made sure it too would be repairable.

                    So well done on creating such a badass ride! Now--sure--there may be more tinkering, more little mods--but you're certainly "done" enough along for congratulations!

                    All the best Jose,

                    tklop

                  #24
                  Oh, is that nice Jose'
                  Yes

                  "Stable" as in high speed stability, I think.

                  What if
                  I want to slap a battery on another Super Vee,
                  I'd want some small, powerful battery, quick installation, not custom ( lotsa work amigo) and GO !
                  Too many Super Vees without a motor
                  Mike

                  Comment


                    #25
                    I appreciate the positive feedback, Mike_V. I think as long as you use a longer travel fork of any kind (140mm or longer) and stick with 26's like I did, then something smaller like a Wolf pack would have clearance to fit well under the main downtube. Mounting would be pretty easy if you use the same stainless band clamps I used to hold the motor and upper battery mount. You could give double duty to lower strap bracing the motor and connect the lower battery mount to it as well, then just use another clamp higher on the tube for the upper mount. I'm thinking a smaller battery and mini-cyclone would be lighter and more nimble, but still have plenty of power. Especially in boost mode.

                    I really like the mounting of the controller high on the double stanchion forks, but you could put it anywhere so long as cables reach. That requires buying connectors, and extending your wires. I had to order the water resistant motor-to-controller extension directly from the Cyclone manufacturer in China. It wasn't listed on the site, but the customer support email was easy to deal with.

                    Jose
                    Last edited by DaHose; 07-18-2020, 09:23 PM.

                    Comment


                      #26
                      VERY nice of you to share all this hard-won knowledge. I'm sure it will help many people...myself included. The detail you put into this is terrific.
                      THANK YOU!

                      By the way, a really nice, flexible and cheap programmable timer is available on ebay for about US$10. I've used it in numerous projects, including as the pulse-width controller for my home-made battery pack welder. For example, you can program a "one-shot" pulse anywher from 0.01 sec to 9999 minutes.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4oNCpH_I0E
                      There are other timers out there that have MOSFET output instead of relay output, or have different timing ranges...but I like the XY-LJ02 as a general purpose timer and the 5V relay version can run off a standard 5V micro-USB charger. The major thing I DON'T like about these timers, is they aren't very accurate over time periods exceeding a couple hours. For example, some run over two minutes fast, some slow over a 24 hour period, so if one is looking for a timer that will turn on/off at the same exact time every day...these are NOT the timers you want. But they excel at short time-line requirements. This imprecision seems to be a common trait for most of these small programmable timers (I've tried about 6 different models).

                      Comment


                        #27
                        Hi to all reading this thread. I just added an upgrade to the battery. In another thread on the forum we had some discussion about the Luna solid state battery cutoff units. They are really nice to have on the system, but one particular forum member has had three burn up on him. The consensus seems to be that the Luna unit is nice, but because it is a single board it heats up too much when running full power to something like a Cyclone. One solution if that is the case, would be to buy a German branded cutoff that has two boards instead of just one. That splits the amperage, creating less heat. Another possible solution would be to run two of the Luna cutoffs in parallel. It does make for a bigger package, but it also offers redundancy if one board should fail for any reason and allow you to limp home.

                        The German unit looks cool, but costs $150. Two of the Luna units can be had for $40 each, and I have room in my case to fit them, so I went the dual Luna board route.

                        Here you can see that I wired both the cutoffs in series, then used an extension cable to wire the on/off button, in series as well. Now a single on/off button is able to operate both boards! I still need to install the second pushbutton in the case and wire it to just the LED power, so I have visual confirmation the second board is active. I was going to track down just and LED, but it has to run at 36V, so I'm just going to use the second switch. It lights up without being pushed in if you put power to the LED terminals.

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	20200724_222424.jpg
Views:	118
Size:	557.0 KB
ID:	110787

                        Here you can see how the boards fit nicely into my case, and a little bit of foam on either side keeps them from flopping around and banging against anything metal.

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	20200724_223144.jpg
Views:	103
Size:	438.3 KB
ID:	110788

                        Now to function test with a very long ride, add the second button/LED, and I will be satisfied that the battery is complete.

                        Jose

                        Comment


                          #28
                          I have another small update on my project. My right side brake lever sensor was being finicky, so I designed a better mount for the sensor unit.

                          Here you can see that it is made from some leftover, thinner aluminum angle. I cut it so it matches the edge thickness of the brake handle mount flange. I put a layer of 3M VHB tape underneath to hold it solid.

                          Click image for larger version  Name:	mountfinal.jpg Views:	0 Size:	310.5 KB ID:	111255 Click image for larger version  Name:	backangle.jpg Views:	0 Size:	170.9 KB ID:	111256

                          I did have to bend the tang up a tiny bit, so it would clear the adjustment set screw on the lever.

                          Click image for larger version  Name:	leverclearance.jpg Views:	0 Size:	196.1 KB ID:	111257

                          Once the sensor is mounted, you can see that it sits just over the corner of the magnet, and with about 3/16" travel it triggers the motor to stop.

                          Click image for larger version  Name:	sensoratrest.jpg Views:	0 Size:	283.7 KB ID:	111258 Click image for larger version  Name:	sensortriggered.jpg Views:	0 Size:	229.5 KB ID:	111259

                          I am much happier with this setup, and it works very reliably.

                          Jose
                          Last edited by DaHose; 08-03-2020, 10:28 PM.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X