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Semi vintage bbshd frankenstein hybrid build

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    Semi vintage bbshd frankenstein hybrid build

    Hello!

    I'm new here on the forum and also no bike specialist, I'm very noob with bicycles. Even so I started to do a little bit strange build of my old Nishiki 401 hybrid bike. Didn't wan't to buy a new one as I have bought this new over 20 years ago. Me and my wife we bought same series hybrids, she got a little smaller women model frame, other wise they are the same. So I have a little bit of an emotional bond to this bike. :D

    Anyway ordered a Bafang BBSHD electric kit and it should arrive any day now. But I wanted little beefier wheels with more grip on bad surfaces and a little bit of MTB look. Found a pair of used 27.5" wheels with stud tyres which is good now for the winter. Also the brakes will be updated to hydraulic disc brakes. Ordered a Shimano MT200 kit wich should also soon be here. To clear the wider wheels I changed the front fork to a Suntour NCX air fork with 63mm travel. It's not any high end, but should be ok for road, gravel and light MBT use. This bike has been a little bit harsh on the wrists with hard tyres.

    I will update the progress when parts arrive.

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    The bike in orginal shape with road tyres.


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    After some wheel and fork swap.


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    Last edited by Maxxim; 1 week ago.

    #2
    Hi, and welcome to the form. And, thanks for sharing your progress, pictures, and details - they always help.
    BBSHD / BBS02 IGH Builds: Nexus / Alfine 8: 1 2 3 4 5 6, Rohloff: 1

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you. Just to inform, my native language isn't english so there may be wrong spellings and other typos in my text.

      Comment


        #4
        Looks good to me. Keep that front derailer on for a chain guide. The move to 27.5 is perfect.
        I would suggest going to a 200mm front rotor. Stick that small one on the rear. You might read the thread on Tannus Armour tire liners in DIY forum. They do a lot for a HT. Maybe wait until the snow tires come off. Old round tube metal bikes are perfect. Anything you can think of just bolts right on.

        Comment


        • Retrorockit
          Retrorockit commented
          Editing a comment
          It isn't going to be obvious until you install the BBSHD. But when you double the speed of a bike you need 4x the brake capacity to disperse heat
          Even 50% more than doubles it. 1.5x1.5=2.25. Almost all of this will be on the front brake. I would look for a DH rated 4 piston brake for the front.
          Things to watch out for when testing brakes.
          1- Increasing hand pressure as the bike slows from top speed. This means something is getting too hot. Maybe the linings, maybe the fluid.It should decrease as you slow down.
          2-Brake lever sinks after a stop. This means the pressure of braking is keeping the fluid from boiling ,but when you stop the heat soaks in and it boils then.
          Some hydraulic brakes can accept a metallic lining upgrade, some just heat the fluid more.The fix for item 1, can cause item 2.
          3- Better tires =better brakes.This is where the move to 27.5 will pay off.
          Last edited by Retrorockit; 1 week ago.

        #5
        Thanks for the tips. I will keep in mind the brake advices. I already ordered different adapters so I can fit 180 or 203mm rotors. The MT200 brake kit would propably be a huge gain in braking force compared to the orginal V-brakes. Of course they couldn't be used with these 27.5" wheels anyway. But if it seems that there will be some problems, then it's easy to upgrade the front brake to 4-piston, for example Shimano MT520.

        Comment


        • Retrorockit
          Retrorockit commented
          Editing a comment
          I'm kind of the brake grouch here. But hydraulic brakes can fool you because they all feel so smooth. But they can have heat issues that a cable disc can't.Especially since they weren't designed for motorized use. When TRP wanted to use their 4 ptsyon DH brake as an EU certified 50kph Pedelec brake they changed the lining compound, the fluid, the plastic hoses, and the thickness of the rotors. A 1500W BBSHD will go that fast. Their DH riders now use the Ebike brake.
          The only thing that costs more than doing it right the first time is doing it right the 2nd time.
          Last edited by Retrorockit; 1 week ago.

        #6
        The Bafang kit arrived. Everything was ok, got the extras, shift sensor, smaller chain ring, programming cable, brake sensors, right battery etc.. just like ordered.

        The bike has a big frame so the battery could be mounted in two different positions. Which would be the best? I like the vertical mount on the seat tube maybe more.

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        • Retrorockit
          Retrorockit commented
          Editing a comment
          For street riding I would put it forward to help avoid wheelstands. For offroad I would probably put it back to unload the front tire in soft stuff.

        #7
        The guidance I've read is to keep weight on or close to the middle of the bicycle/motorcycle, and near/on the axle line. In our triangle frame situations, I think the down tube or the seat tube location works about the same.

        But ... With aluminum frames and heavy shark-style batteries, my concern is relying on just two, relatively weak aluminum water bottle bosses. In the early days of lightish weight 36 volt shark 1 cases - maybe. But with your battery, I'd help out the two existing bosses with some of the strap-on bosses. I'd also Locktite all of the bolts if you haven't already - the steel bolts will, over time, try and saw out the aluminum boss threads if/when they loosen up.

        Good to see you're up and runnable.
        Last edited by ncmired; 6 days ago.
        BBSHD / BBS02 IGH Builds: Nexus / Alfine 8: 1 2 3 4 5 6, Rohloff: 1

        Comment


        • Retrorockit
          Retrorockit commented
          Editing a comment
          Several places sell a Triple Bob battery bracket that bolts to the water bottle holes but adds some hose clamps to support the battey better.

        • AZguy
          AZguy commented
          Editing a comment
          On that note I'd also recommend strapping the battery to the frame to keep it from wobbling, etc

          Voile straps work very well for this and I've used them on a few builds: https://www.voilestraps.com/aluminum-buckle-straps.html

        #8
        Yea, the water bottle mounts would not be enough for the battery weight. I'm ready to drill holes for rivet nuts. Seems that the mounts are orginally also made with rivets. But either mount I use, it would need a bracket underneath the battery that leans and supports to the frame to avoid the sideway sway.

        Comment


        • Retrorockit
          Retrorockit commented
          Editing a comment
          If you want to drill for rivnuts, make a wooden drill guide to locate the holes. It takes a pretty big hole for the rivnuts, and the drill bit will want to wander drilling into a round tube. Bolt it to the existing holes, and drill though the guide holes in the wood. The drill bit will not follow a pilot hole in a round tube.
          You may need an angle drill and short drill bits also to work inside the frame. It can be done, but be prepared and use caution. I've installed rivnuts for battery mounts and torque arms, and it's not easy to get the holes in the right place. The clamp method is simpler and probably stronger too.

        • Maxxim
          Maxxim commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks, that is sure the right way to do it. M5 rivets propably need 7-8mm hole, need to go and buy some. The orginal rivest seems to be electro coated steel ones, so I guess they would do. I will machine a aluminium bracket that sitts between the battery and the round frame tube.

        • Retrorockit
          Retrorockit commented
          Editing a comment
          I went to 6mm which needs 9mm hole. I have also drilled out factory steel rivnuts to 6x1.0mm thread successfully. Tried it on an extra one first.
          The difficulty drilling freehand into round tubing is the bit is only hitting in 2 places, and pulling in opposite directions.That's why I suggest a guide for the drill.

        #9
        Tested that everything works. Connected the motor, battery, screen and throttle. Everything is ok, the 500C screen came configurated for 52V battery like promised(not all of these screen firmwares support 52V).

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        Before I secure the motor in place, I have to shimm it as it hits the frame and doesn't go all the way in. It's maybe 2mm out. I will lasercut 2- and 3mm shimms next week at work.

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          #10
          Was thinking a second time about the battery mount... Would have drill holes and install rivnuts, but still the mount would have needed something between the battery and frame tube to prevent sideway wobble. So why not do something more simpple like clamping it down with pipe clamps..?

          Well couldn't find any kind of clamps to fit 32mm pipe that was slender enough and would support the bottom of the battery bracket. Designed my own clamps with cad and lasercut them out of 10mm steel. Drilled and tapped holes for the screws and painted them black. Came out quite nice and the battery it very well secured, there is no wobble at all.

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          Comment


          • Retrorockit
            Retrorockit commented
            Editing a comment
            Why not have the robot make 3 or even 4 of them? It's still hanging by 2 small bolts.
            Last edited by Retrorockit; 3 days ago.

          • Maxxim
            Maxxim commented
            Editing a comment
            AZguy Thanks. Yes, I saw those earlier, but they may not be much difference from holes and rivnuts, maybe a little bit less wobbly as it has a separate support part..

            ncmired thank you. I'm working at a metal workshop, mainly doing only mild steel products.

            Retrorockit could make more if it seems to not hold. Mainly only two brackets for the looks. But in the end it shouldn't break as it's not flexing any. A M5 8.8 grade bolt tensile strenght is ~800kg so it can take a huge load when torqued down properly. But it won't hold for long if the bolts flexes and bends. It will break in no time.

          • Retrorockit
            Retrorockit commented
            Editing a comment
            The main loading is going to be in shear on a threaded section.So tensile strength eventually may not be the deciding factor. It probably is strong enough. But with 3 slots in the battery bracket why not? Also being a retired truck mechainic i would go for 3x6mm bolts, just because. But avoiding the chore of drilling for rivnuts is a very good idea.

          #11
          Found also new padals, these was on clearance sale locally. Crankbrothers Stamp 1 flatpedals.

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            #12
            3mm shimm did the job, now there is about 1mm clearance to the chain stay. But now when I look closer at the chain ring location it's clear that there will be a issue with the chain line. It may be a straight line to the longest gear, but the shortest one would be a problem. Will see if I modify the orginal 42T gear or order a new offset gear. Hate to wait a month for every ordered part though...

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