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Soma B-Side V.2 Belt Drive BBS02 750W/48V Custom Build

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    #46
    Now that I'm up and running, I have a few questions for those knowledgeable folks that read this post.

    1) What is the stock amp setting on a BBS02-B 750W/48V motor?
    2) What is the stock low voltage cutoff setting?
    3) Do you need the USB programming cable to turn the throttle on for Level 0 and allow the throttle to function at 100% on any Level settings?

    The one thing I wanted on my last BBS01 350W/36V was for the throttle to always be at 100% no matter what Level the motor is set to. My first off-road ride made me want that feature for this new BBS02-B also. As I approach a hill it's easiest to just hit the throttle rather than click up through a bunch of Levels, only to have to click them back down after the climb.

    If I'm understanding what I'm reading correctly, you can set the maximum percent of power for each PAS Level and throttle separately. This means you can limit the motor maximum power output based on a percentage of the volts and amps you are set too.

    As an example, if you are running 48V*18A=864W you can set maximum power percentage to 87% and limit the motor to 750W maximum. Likewise, if you are running 48V*25A=1200W you can set maximum percentage to 63% and limit the motor to 750W maximum; any other percentage you desire to restrict motor over-watting to what you want and possibly extend battery range and longevity of the motor.

    4) Is this interpretation correct?
    Last edited by Rider; 04-16-2017, 06:35 AM.
    2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
    2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
    2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
    2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

    Comment


      #47
      Nobody knows the stock settings?

      =

      Did a quick 25 miles this morning still on the second charge. Rode on level 6 of 9 for most of the ride. Now at 46.1V after 80.6 miles.

      I'll do one more ride to drain it and post up. That will be the last range test. If range changes over time I'll report that as well.

      =

      Going to order up the USB cable to check the stock settings and make minor "Paul (AKA: cellman)" adjustments to the throttle settings and maybe voltage shutoff and amps.

      One thing I did notice is that with the settings on1-9 and riding at Level 6 of 9, the throttle does well at overriding the 16mph cruising speed. Hit the throttle on the upside of an underpass and the motor jumps up to +/-900W and will increase speed up to about 18mph on the flats. Much better than hitting the throttle on Level 2 of 5. I think I'll check the maximum percentage power setting for the Level 6 of 9 to see what that stock setting is because it works well.
      2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
      2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
      2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
      2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

      Comment


        #48
        Whoa! Hit 100 miles on a single charge during the second full charge battery test and still have 42.2V left. Pretty much all riding was done at Level 6 of 9.

        I stopped there before the motor even started cutting out. Super happy with this BBS02 and Panasonic-Sanyo GA 21Ah battery block from Luna.
        2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
        2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
        2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
        2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

        Comment


          #49
          Picked up some XLC GR-G16 3-D Ergo Locking Grips on eBay for a cool $16. These will give me a nice comfortable wide forward facing hand position with smooth contours in the palm of my hand. Having multiple hand positions to fight off hand numbness on long rides is a must for me.
          Last edited by Rider; 05-19-2017, 06:50 AM. Reason: typo
          2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
          2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
          2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
          2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

          Comment


            #50
            Passed the 350 mile mark and loving it. For some reason the BBS02 seems to be getting faster. By that I mean what used to be a power level 6 of 9, is now only 4-5 of 9. I have no explanation for this. It's similar to what I experienced during my first around the block tests and the later real world riding tests.

            Do these BBS02 electric motors have a break-in period?
            2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
            2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
            2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
            2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

            Comment


            • calfee20
              calfee20 commented
              Editing a comment
              It is warmer now?

            • Rider
              Rider commented
              Editing a comment
              Nope. Here in SoCal it's pretty much 70-90 degrees when I ride.

            #51
            Maybe the battery is broken-in, and the warmer weather is also helping the battery put out its max amps?

            Comment


            • Rider
              Rider commented
              Editing a comment
              I guess the battery could be getting balanced out. I did do a full 100% charge and left it connected all night, so the last ride started at a full 54V+ and hopefully fully balanced. But with the BBS02 set to 48V I wouldn't think that would matter much (?).
              Last edited by Rider; 05-20-2017, 05:20 AM. Reason: typos

            #52
            Completely by chance I figured it out. Today I did a quick 35 miler to the beach and back. When I exited the riverbed bike trail for the last 5 miles on the street I decided to pump up the power level to 9 of 9 and ghost pedal. I noticed I was flying along at about 23-25mph. That reminded me that I had upped the speed limiter to 30mph from 20mph right before the power levels increased, so I pulled over and reset the speed limiter to 20mph. Guess what? Level 6 of 9 was back to about 16mph cruising speed like before. That was it!

            When you change the speed limiter it also changes how each level of the 1-9 functions. I didn't know that. Not sure if anyone else knew that either? This makes me not want to start messing with the stock Bafang settings until I truly understand how this software works...

            To confirm my find, I switched it back to 30mph. Sure enough, level 4 of 9 cruises at 15-16mph and level 5 of 9 cruises at about 17mph with the speed limited up at 30mph.

            PS: Surpassed 500 miles today!
            Last edited by Rider; 05-23-2017, 01:42 PM.
            2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
            2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
            2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
            2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

            Comment


              #53
              Will someone else please try setting their speed limiter to 20mph and note your normal cadence speeds, then change the speed limiter to 30mph and note your normal cadence speeds to see if you get the same results.

              My system is the new BBS02-B 750W/48V with stock settings from Bafang (not a Luna branded model, if that matters).

              I think we need an "Everything you ever wanted to know about the Bafang BBS02" sticky thread and the same for the BBSHD as well (separate sticky threads). That sticky thread can list all the stock settings, how the computer software functions in different situations, what each setting does, etc... Just a thought.
              2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
              2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
              2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
              2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

              Comment


              • ykick
                ykick commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks for inspiration to try some of this.

                My Hot Rod programmed BBSHD using 750C display seemed to ignore the speed limit function even when I dropped it down to 10km/h. Basically it appears to have no effect.

                EDIT for drunken mistake info - Advanced menu speed limit with Hot Rod programming does in fact limit both PAS and Throttle to the same setting. 32km/h limit cuts power at 20MPH for throttle use and any PAS level which allows for that much speed.

                Next I tried a factory programmed BBSHD with a Luna DPC-14 and the advanced menu speed limit definitely changed across all PAS top speeds. However, what surprised me is that the throttle remained tied to the original PAS level speed limits.

                That is actually very cool and gives the throttle a sort of boost over whatever current PAS level’s selected.
                Last edited by ykick; 05-25-2017, 11:47 AM.

              #54
              I get the same results for throttle "boost" over the PAS top speeds with my factory programmed BBS02-B and DPC-14 "Intelligent" display. Good, you got the same results I am getting with the factory programmed model. I believe here's why.

              I reviewed this write up again because it's been a while since I originally read it:

              https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/0...g-your-sanity/

              Note on the "Basic" screen (the one that shows all the levels of assist), the program uses "Limit Speed %" to set each assist level. Increasing the speed cutoff (or "Limit Speed" input) results in a higher speed in all levels (makes sense). This finding gives you another way to adjust the speed at different levels of assist without changing the stock programming. By playing with the speed cutoff mph you can fine tune your favorite cadence to the speed you like at different levels.

              It's ironic that the only reason I originally put in 30mph was to see how fast the bike would go at WOT with level 9 of 9. I wasn't sure if that change would allow the motor to spin faster or not. As it turned out I didn't even come close to 30mph with my low gearing, but found out something else interesting.

              In the end, I'd like to use the California Class-2 20mph speed cutoff limit. I think I can do some calculations using 30mph and the percentages for each level to come up with 20mph limited settings that provide the same assist, but I'm still not quite ready to start playing with the programming cable. When I do, turning on throttle for level zero will be my first change. Then maybe a tweak of the power cutoff delay after you stop pedaling. The power on delay seems a little bit too long with the stock setting.
              Last edited by Rider; 05-24-2017, 07:06 AM. Reason: correction
              2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
              2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
              2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
              2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

              Comment


                #55
                Settled on a 25mph speed shutoff for now (until I go into the programming to play around). This gives me a pedal cruising speed of 17mph in 5 of 9 and a 23-24mph ghost pedal speed in 9 of 9.

                Also switched to a ISM Sport saddle and put ESI silicone grips on my GP5 inner bars ends to add comfort. Slight adjustments to the handlebar angle, flipped up bar ends and seat post height have the bike fitting me like a glove now. New cockpit look.
                Last edited by Rider; 05-31-2017, 06:45 AM. Reason: typo
                2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
                2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
                2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

                Comment


                  #56
                  Getting every little thing adjusted to fit just right may not sound like a big deal, but...it really transforms the ride into something much more pleasant.

                  Comment


                    #57
                    Yes, the perfect fit makes all the difference and this bike is really close. Going with a smaller frame so others can ride it has made fitting a bit of a challenge.

                    Will be rolling over 1,000 miles this week in silent belt drive slender! Loving the ride, but find myself going faster and faster on pavement and don't like the feel of ghost pedaling much. Traveling on the street with cars to get to a designated bike only trail has me ghost pedaling at 22-23mph just to get it over with. More so on the return than the initial warm up at the beginning of the ride.

                    For those that have followed this build thread and might be interested in my next build, I have started a new cruiser build here:

                    https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...iser-3-project

                    I'm going to try a Sturmey-Archer 5spd RX-RK5 Disc IGH that has 25% gear spacing to add more range to my touring trail ride and move the 3spd to the cruiser with a little higher gearing, because a granny low isn't really needed on a cruiser or street only ride. The cruiser is an aluminum Electra Cruiser 3 that will be converted to disc brakes and 27.5+ x2.8 tires with a little classic early 1900's motorcycle styling.
                    Last edited by Rider; 06-15-2017, 05:54 AM.
                    2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
                    2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                    2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
                    2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

                    Comment


                      #58
                      Put another 500 miles on her since my last post. Turned over 1,500 miles and it has developed a little pedal slip/skip that I believe I've pinned down to the rear hub. Here's the trouble shooting thread:

                      https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...and-spins-free

                      In addition I put a Schwalbe Super Moto-X 27.5" x 2.8" on the front because I'm riding on pavement so much. OMG! This tire gives a soft ride full of traction. It fit the standard RockShox TK 30 Gold Air Forks and measures about 2.6"-2.7" on the narrow 19mm ID rims depending on the air pressure. Tires can be ran at 20-45psi. I've been running the front at 30psi for a Cadillac ride.

                      While I have the rear wheel off correcting the hub torque issues, I installed another Super Moto-X 2.8" on the rear. Clearance will be tight, as this Soma frame isn't made for tires bigger than 2.4 (I believe), but it does seem to fit with little room to spare. We will see once I get the rear all mounted up again.
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by Rider; 07-22-2017, 06:00 PM.
                      2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
                      2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                      2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
                      2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

                      Comment


                        #59
                        You've got to go read the trouble shooting post referenced above. OMG! What is Sturmey-Archer making their axle nut out of?

                        Got the rear wheel with Schwalbe Super Moto-X 2.8" mounted up and there is plenty of clearance on this 2016 Soma B-Side. That is wonderful news! The ride (for the short time I tested it) was amazing with two of these soft rollers on there. Driveway curbs are almost unnoticeable. It's like floating on air and they grip like mad in turns.

                        Hopefully all the cracking and exploding Sturmey-Archer axle nuts will be replaced next week and I will be back on the road. I'm starting to get depressed without my every other day bike rides...
                        2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
                        2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                        2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
                        2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

                        Comment


                          #60
                          Finally got her back on the road with some homemade parts until the proper Sturmey-Archer parts arrive. Did 25 miles round trip to the beach and back. No slipping and the new Schwalbe Super Moto-X 2.8 on the rear has the bike riding on a cloud. Here's a shot of the bike with both new shoes on Seal Beach pier.

                          Beautiful day and wonderful to be back in the saddle!
                          2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
                          2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                          2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
                          2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

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