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Soma B-Side V.2 Belt Drive BBS02 750W/48V Custom Build

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    #76
    Work in progress pictures...
    Attached Files
    2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
    2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
    2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
    2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

    Comment


      #77
      Originally posted by Rider View Post
      The B-Side is well into getting its' "redo" with new: gearing, tires, forks, bars, seatpost & saddle. The "redo" is going to make it more of a street ride with less aggressive tires and faster speed.



      APailthorp - I'm following in your footsteps. Making a move from 50Tx28T to 50Tx24T. Until I try it out, I won't know if I go all the way to 55Tx24T like you did...
      With regrets, I recently converted back to chain, 42x21 to the same three speed hub for now. I broke my spider. It may well be my fault, as more than once I walked the belt on (causing significant lateral strain and against all recommendations, but I was lazy and didn't want to pull the wheel out to set the belt back on properly). There were other reasons besides the broken part. On a really steep hill (ramp out of parking lot) I could get belt skip. For a while I thought the hub was skipping teeth, but it was the belt. It can help to run at very high belt tension, but that can introduce other issues. I don't think my cheap 3 speed hub liked being pulled that hard.

      I was getting some trouble with the hub as well (actually have replaced internals twice). With the reduced tension on the hub, I'm no longer getting the occasional skips from chipped teeth in the hub (what we found in the first two hubs). Eventually I'll go to an Alfine hub, since belt line isn't an issue having converted to chain.

      I still really like belt drive, have another bike with belt and 11 speed Alfine but no electrics that I think is great. But pushing 1500W/2HP through the bike belt didn't work as well as I wanted it to. Also, for the hills here in Seattle I'd like to have greater gear range than I can get from the 3 speed and I'm not inclined to spring for a Rolhoff.

      YMMV, good luck!



      Last edited by APailthorp; 12-15-2017, 05:22 PM. Reason: Clarifications

      Comment


      • APailthorp
        APailthorp commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, this set-up might be okay with lower power levels of a BBS02. The Rohloff is not only pricey, but servicing is not nearly as nice for me. We have a local shop, http://www.rideyourbike.com that fully services most IGH, including Alfine but not Rohloff. Those have to be sent out. Generally regarded as very reliable, but I just don't want/need to go there. Chain is not terrible, just not as nice as belt. It would nice if Gates would sell a dedicated e-bike set, somewhat wider belt and Luna Eclipse drum style cogs to get the belt line in... Or maybe I just need to buy one of these: https://www.kalkhoff-bikes.com/en/bi...speed-i11.html

      • Rider
        Rider commented
        Editing a comment
        Once again, it's not the Gates belt, it's the part you bolted to the BBSHD pulling the chain/belt-line in that failed. It would have failed with a chain too. Don't buy anymore of those! Buy/make something stronger and better designed; no matter if you run a belt or chain.

      • APailthorp
        APailthorp commented
        Editing a comment
        That's a valid point. The manufacturer had this to say:
        Hi what did the chainline look like on this? Only way I could see how this would happen is if it was being pulled laterally or it was being lugged.

        -Gary
        Luna CS Mgr.
        Later in the conversation they gave me a 50% discount coupon after I'd had the part for nearly a year, so no complaints, but there are other alternatives. California E-Bike has one that is much more burly.

        The cheap SA 3 speed hub I'm running does seem happier (less likely to skip on hard pulls) with the lesser tension of a chain, but that's not an empirical evaluation, just a subjective impression.

      #78
      For low cost, efficiency and simplicity it's hard to beat a chain. Clean and dry might wear out a little faster but only $12 to replace? Wax based lube is interesting and tends to be fairly clean but I've been experimenting with pristine clean and dry chain/sprockets on a folding bike and it's holding up remarkably well.

      Comment


      • APailthorp
        APailthorp commented
        Editing a comment
        I've been using a waxed chain set up with this kit, which has been working well: https://www.runawaybike.com/products/hot-tub

      • Rider
        Rider commented
        Editing a comment
        When you consider the cost of a Lekkie Bling Ring, the little extra cost to go Gates CDX belt drive isn’t that much if you shop on the net for the parts. The biggest issue is having the belt line straight. IMHO not having that right and using a BBSHD instead of a BBS02B is what caused the above belt ring adaptor to fail and maybe it’s weak designed inward offset.

      #79
      I don't think this baby on my B-Side will be failing anytime soon...
      2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
      2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
      2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
      2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

      Comment


        #80
        Got the Soma B-Side back on the road today. What a difference the higher gearing, rigid carbon fork and tubeless WTB Byway tires made. The bike has a whole new feel. The tires even at 50psi have forgiving sidewall cushion. The rigid carbon fork is super responsive; none of that full suspension sluggishness. The new 50T x 24T gearing mated with the S-A 3spd IGH makes a wonderful match of power, speed and ease of use. At level 6 of 9 with speed limiter set to 28mph, it cruises at about 21mph at a nice cadence. Bump that to 7 of 9 and it speeds along at about 23mph with a faster, but doable cadence. With this gearing and the 3spd IGH I now start in 1st gear from a stop light (not 2nd) and normally hit 3rd gear about the time I reach the other side of the street. Then it is a simple pedal cruise at 21mph... Fast enough and safe enough for most riders.

        I did one of my normal rides from my home in Anaheim to the Queen Mary in Long Beach and back in about 2 hours! Logged 41 miles, averaged 18.3mph with all stops included and hit a top speed of 29.3mph. Only used 6 volts (Start = 53V / End = 47V).

        Here's the new look. I'm back in speed demon mode and can easily hang with the roadies. Whisper quiet belt drive is so sweet! Nobody knows you're coming.
        Last edited by Rider; 01-04-2018, 01:04 PM.
        2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
        2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
        2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
        2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

        Comment


          #81
          Getting close to 2,500 miles on this bike now. Wonderful trail bike and commuter ride setup like this. I'm now thinking about increasing the front belt ring to a 55T; the same path APailthorp followed...
          Last edited by Rider; 02-18-2018, 02:58 PM.
          2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
          2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
          2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
          2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

          Comment


            #82
            Rejigged the Soma B-Side cockpit by returning the S-T Thudbuster and ISM Sport saddle, as the L-T Thudbuster and ISM Urbaine will move on to my new upcoming Surly ECR build. Added some narrow ~600mm Ritchey alloy flat bars off a early 1990's Schwinn Crosspoint I still have, but is now setup as a more upright hybrid commuter bike. Gloved it with the Ergon GP5 grips with ESI covered long bars ends that I was using as inner bars prior. The Fouriers Trailhead 35* sweep bars with two pairs of ESI Extra Chunky grips will go to the Surly ECR as well. I held off installing a new set of Tektro E350 Bafang cutoff hydraulic brakes and rotors on the Soma B-Side, as they will now go to the new Surly ECR. I cut off the ends of the Bafang manual levers attached to BB7 brakes to make them 2-3 finger levers, giving me more handlebar control while braking and further lever pull. The new setup fits this ride well, as it has become the closest thing I will ever own to a drop bar road bike again. The large comfortable ESI covered bar ends are just the right "old school" width for comfortable city ripping without as much of a possibility of catching a handlebar end on a pole, fence, wire, trashcan, bench, etc... that you have to maneuver around here when sidewalk hoping. Pictures are of the new setup. I'm still considering bumping the front belt ring up to a 55T to get a bit more speed out of the S-A 3spd IGH. Absolutely loving this bike and the way it has evolved over its' 3,000 mile life so far.
            Last edited by Rider; 05-25-2018, 03:06 PM.
            2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
            2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
            2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
            2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

            Comment


              #83
              Cracked the 3,000 mile mark with today's ride to the beach. Definitely a biking weekend here in sunny SoCal. The bike trail was packed and so was the beach boardwalk through Long Beach. Did 37.5 miles and averaged a rather fast for me 17.1mph. Top speed was almost 30mph; 29.8mph. I got in a jousting match with a couple roadies that didn't like me passing them at a light. I was simply cruising at about 21mph and they were stopped, but the light turned green when I approached. I lost them for a couple miles, then they caught me when I was waiting at a light. As I took off and quickly got up to speed, one of them jetted past me while I was going 22mph. His friend hung back, but eventually passed me as well. They were working hard to hold it above 23mph. I caught them at a light and we all had to wait. This time they took off as hard as they could and tried to drop me. I just simply clicked up the power a bit and caught their tail in no time. They kept looking back, switching lead position and sweeting bullets; all the while all they hear is silence, then a clicking whur over and over. I was just pedaling a few rounds, then coasting right in their draft. It reminded me of last mile of "their" road race. They moved left then right, still trying to drop me. Ain't gonna happen! They picked up their pace even more to 26mph. I clicked my power up from level 7 to level 8 and road their rear tires with my insistant coast clicking. I could have passed them anytime I wanted. We all got caught at another light and I just sat back a couple bike lengths with my foot on the curb; in my plaid beach shorts, button short sleeved shirt and straw beach hat with sunglasses (they were Roadied out in areodynamic bike apparel - LOL). When it went green this time, they didn't push it. My turn was coming up in two streets, so once traffic was clear I went to level 9 and pumped past them and across the street at an angle. then took it up to about 30mph and held it there until my turn. Needless to say, they weren't anywhere near me on the other side of the street. I don't know if they knew I was electrified. My bike is silent and it looks like a belt drive single speed, but I'm guessing they saw the black motor down there. Certainly they didn't know it was a simple 3spd inside that little cassette hub on the rear wheel. It was all in good fun...

              The great thing is yesterday my 55T front belt drive ring arrived. That will add 5T to the front and more speed when desired. I can road this thing out a bit now that I have my Surly ECR build in the works for dirt roads and trail treks.

              TO MUCH FUN!!!
              Last edited by Rider; 06-03-2018, 03:43 PM.
              2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
              2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
              2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
              2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

              Comment


                #84
                Finally found a few hours to collect and format the info to publish this...[it still needs more links and other additions, but if I don't publish something now, I might never get to it...]

                http://www.electricbike.com/gates-belt-bbs02/

                Comment


                • Rider
                  Rider commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Thanks SM. Hope to see more belt drive builds over time as methods of belt alignment are discovered. IIRC the expensive Rohloff IGH is still the widest belt line out there and is the easiest to match a front belt ring to. Someday I will own one. I’m sold on IGH hubs in general. The ability to shift without pedaling is so nice. I usually downshift while coasting up to a light or even after I come to a stop. You can’t do,that with a derailleur setup.

                #85
                Swapped out the 50T front sprocket for a 55T today. While the rear wheel was off I decided to swap tires once again. The WTB Byway 47c tires feel wonderful in a straight line on cement and all around on gravel roads and hardpack, but I'm turning this ride into more of a road only oriented city bike now. The WTB Byway knobby edge isn't the best for laying a bike down on the tires edge on cement and if you hit wet pavement with that knobby edge it has a tendency to slide out. The WTB Horizon is basically the same tire without the knobby edge, so I'd recommend that tire for a dedicated street ride over the WTB Byway, but I have other street tires already...

                I had a pair of Schwalbe Super Moto-X 27.5" X 2.8" tires on this bike at one time, but got a 1/4" slit cut in one that required a inside tire patch and there wasn't much clearance for a tire that big in the rear (it did fit though). I returned a Schwalbe Super Moto-X 2.8" to the front Halo Vapour i21 rim for street use. It measures just under 2.6" on this narrow rim. I ordered up a matching Greenguard E-rated 2.4" Schwalbe Super Moto-X for the rear to get better tire clearance with the tire moving forward some because of the new 55T beltring. When this ride hits the rode once again with a little higher gearing for more speed it will be sporting 2.4" in the rear and 2.8" up front; probably netting about <2.4" and <2.6" width; right in the sweet spot that many MTB riders are finding offer the best compromise of traction, control and feel.
                Last edited by Rider; 06-25-2018, 09:07 AM.
                2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
                2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
                2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

                Comment


                  #86
                  She's back on the road! Did a quick ride to the beach and back to test her new shoes and gearing out. Hit a nasty headwind all the way there (11+ miles) and it was sucking up 500-600 watts to keep it above 20mph. Although on the return it was only using 0-50 watts to keep it above 20mph; tailwinds are wonderful. Cruised about 2mph faster with the new gearing. Rode smooth, quiet and very soft ride with the 2.8/2.4 Schwalbe Super Moto-X combo front/rear. The belt drive is sweet.
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by Rider; 06-28-2018, 06:09 PM.
                  2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
                  2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                  2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
                  2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

                  Comment


                    #87
                    Things change and life moves on... Now that my Sulry ECR is dialed in I ended up converting this Soma B-Side into my belt drive 3spd pedal city ripper and beach cruiser. It's so nice having that 33% lower and higher gear on both sides of the single speed gearing that Soma recommends. Get a headwind or hill that is taxing you, grab first. Get a tailwind or decent and want pick up speed, grab 3rd. Sweet! All in complete silence.

                    I will be posting up my extra BBBS02B 750W 48V color display kit with full belt drive rings and adaptor, plus Avid BB7 brakes and rotors for $500 in the For Sale Parts section today.

                    HERE'S A LINK TO IT:
                    https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...-brakes-rotors

                    Belt drives are sweet with E-assist or pedal.

                    Cheers all!
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by Rider; 09-15-2018, 09:26 AM.
                    2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
                    2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                    2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
                    2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

                    Comment


                      #88
                      Asking for some help:
                      Building BBS02 with Nuvinci N380 on a belt drive...
                      What pulley rings do I need?

                      Comment


                        #89
                        Originally posted by Ttreshh View Post
                        Asking for some help:
                        Building BBS02 with Nuvinci N380 on a belt drive...
                        What pulley rings do I need?
                        If you are putting a belt drive ring on a BBS02 you can’t go smaller than a 50T or it won’t clear the reduction gear. You have to do the calculations for the belt line yourself based on the rear hub you are using.
                        2020 Banshee Paradox (pedal)...
                        2018 eSurly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                        2016 Soma B-Side BD 3spd IGH (pedal): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
                        2013 Niner Jet 9 (sold): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist

                        Comment

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