Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Niner Jet 9 Variable Control On-Demand Electric Assist

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Niner Jet 9 Variable Control On-Demand Electric Assist

    This concept isn’t new. All many MTB riders really want is assist when and if they need it. That is normally while climbing. The rest of the time the MTB is ridden just like a non-assisted bicycle. LIFT-MTB makes a very nice yet expensive kit based on this concept.

    https://www.lift-mtb.com/accueil-faq...tible-english/

    I bought a MY1018 450W/36V brushed electric motor a while back, along with a controller and variable assist throttle with 3 setting levels. Recently I picked up a Stainless Steel 68mm bottom bracket mount for it to use as a pattern or fabrication material. Originally I was going to put this on my 2016 Carbon Santa Cruz Hightower, but decided against it. That was(is) an awesome MTB! One that is way more MTB than this approaching 60 something needs, but I will say I sure enjoyed bombing it downhill at record speeds for me. In the end I thought that money could be put to better use in my growing electric bike hobby for the long-term, so I sold it after 9 months of downhill bliss and a lot of uphill pedal anxiety. This old dog just can’t climb like he used to…

    Recently I picked up a 2013 Niner Jet 9 alloy XL frame (2010 Redesign Model) that seemed like a good candidate for an urban assault and trail rig build. I have two 135mm/100mm wheel sets now (one 27.5” and one 29”), so a frame that can take both of my 135mm rear wheels was a must. I wanted a full suspension aluminum frame, with minimal suspension 80-120mm travel to take the bumps out, but not make it climb like a pig. XC MTB FS frames are designed just for that. This one has 80mm rear travel from a specially tuned Fox RP23 and my recent NOS RockShox SID RCT3 100mm find slides right into the headset already on this frame. It came with a 68mm standard threaded bottom bracket with a 24mm through axle setup from Shimano and a cool red Salsa seatpost clamp to offset the red accents in the paint and original build suspension components. My black with red spikes AEST titanium spindle flat pedals will fit right into this frame color scheme well.

    Here’s the frame and Niner’s 2010 redesign flyer from back in the day.
    Last edited by Rider; 11-05-2017, 12:01 PM.
    2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
    2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
    2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

    #2
    The plan is to keep this a “minimalist” electric assist setup. The basic parts are pictured: motor, controller, mounting bracket and throttle control with 3 power level settings. There will be no display. I haven’t decided if I will attach a small battery to the bike or simply put it in a fanny pack with magnetic breakaway connection.

    So far all I have done is make motor mount templates for each side of the bottom bracket out of cardboard that wrap above the suspension pivot point. To start I will just cut the existing bracket up to match my templates, then possibly add a couple braces from one side to the other that bolt onto the two lower bottom tube water bottle mounts. A large zip-tie will likely be added around the bottom tube as well for added support. From there it’s just a matter of running the wires and locating the controller somewhere.

    That’s the initial plan. Another fun project begins, while my eCruiser keeps a smile on my face cruising around town and to the beach.

    First order of business is to get it going as a bicycle, then jump in... Cheers!
    Last edited by Rider; 10-15-2017, 04:16 PM.
    2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
    2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
    2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

    Comment


      #3
      Got the Niner Jet 9 going on 27.5 x 2.8 Schwalbe Super Moto-X’s, but the rear is super tight and really should be sized down to a 2.4 to have proper clearance on the chain stays. I am considering switching to WTB 650B 47c ByWay’s and going tubeless. I can get a 2.4 Schwalbe Super Moto-X with Green Guard for $35, but the WTB ByWay’s are $61 each! The $$$ may make that decision for me. The third option is to put my Schwalbe Smart Sam’s on it with the barely worn front in the rear and the 2,000 mile rear in the front; at zero out of pocket. They have plenty of life left in them...

      The gearing is setup as 30T x 20T currently, so the Sturmey-Archer 3spd cassette IGH yields gear ratios of 1.125 (1st), 1.5 (2nd) and 2.0 (3rd). It feels like a good mix for pedal power cruising in 3rd and you still have a pretty low first for climbing. I will have to see what I can climb with it without electric assist. With electric assist there should be no problem with a 1.125:1 1st gear. I was running a 1.33:1 1st gear when I had this rear wheel setup with a belt on the Soma B-Side eMTB.

      Rode it over to my LBS and weighed the entire bike as pictured with 2lb. IGH, cheap crankset, ISM Sport saddle and seat bag. It came in right at 30lbs. I think swapping to tubeless WTB ByWay’s alone will drop close to 2lbs. If I can keep the entire bike with motor under 35lbs. I’d be very happy.

      The ride is super quick and snappy. On lockout, it feels close to a hard tail with bump strike cushion and unlocked it is surprisingly supple and smooth. Much easier to ride than a heavy eMTB and you can move it around when stopped without a care. If there were no hills or headwinds in this world, I’d never even need or want electric assist! ;-)
      Last edited by Rider; 11-05-2017, 12:00 PM.
      2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
      2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
      2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

      Comment


        #4
        Ended up installing the Schwalbe Smart Sam Plus with Green Guard E-Rated tires that I already had to get proper clearance at the rear. Completed my first tubeless install with Stan's sealant. It wasn't that difficult. Hope it works out.

        The cheap China dual sprocket crank set I installed works fine for pedaling with the 30T x 20T on the Sturmey-Archer 3spd and 42T Chop-Saw that will go forward to the MY1018 electric motor, BUT this crank set spindle isn't wide enough to clear the motor sprocket. It appears all the kits that run this motor use a 68mm x 148mm spindle freewheel crank set, so that will be the next item to locate. I prefer the ISIS crank arms over the square mount type, so those ISIS components might be somewhat expensive in comparison. The second photo illustrates the motor sprocket shaft issue.
        2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
        2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
        2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

        Comment


          #5
          Anyone know where I can purchase a crank axle like the ones below in 24mm? (center one)

          I have to go with a wide Q-factor to get the motor sprocket to clear the right crank arm.
          Last edited by Rider; 11-28-2017, 04:26 PM.
          2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
          2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
          2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

          Comment


            #6
            Got the initial cuts to the motor mount made and test installed the motor. Still plan to add a welded cross bar between the two stainless steel mounting plates that bolts up to the lower downtube water bottle mounting inserts on the frame. I'll clean up and polish the brackets as well. It tucks in very nicely.
            2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
            2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
            2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

            Comment


              #7
              Marked the bracket for some more trimming, then pulled them off and reinstalled the crank assembly. My Specialized Compound Control 29x2.2 arrived, so I put it on the S-A 5spd 29er 39id rim and it now fits the rear of this Niner Jet 9! Installed the matching 29er front and added the S-A upper bar shifter to the handlebars, leaving the 3spd shifter on the left side. Now I can swap my 27.5 S-A 3spd or the 29er S-A 5spd wheelsets on and off this bike with both shifter setups already there.

              Going to take a pedal test ride now to my LBS. The crank assembly needs a small shim to fit just right. The S-A 5spd is a lot of pedal fun with a 30T up front and 20T in the rear giving a 1.5:1 3rd. 1st gear is all the way down to about 1:1, while 5th gear is out at about 2.3:1.

              I'll add a picture of it setup with these tires once I take one.
              2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
              2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
              2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

              Comment


                #8
                First ride was sweet! Geared this low it is a pleasure to pedal and the suspension takes all the roughness out of the ride. It weighed right at 30lbs. with the S-A 3spd 27.5 wheelset. Now with the S-A 5spd 29er wheelset my best guess is about 2lbs. heavier (the S-A heavy duty RX-RK5 IGH is a heavy 4lb. beast). The more I ride light weight quality full suspension builds, the more I like pedaling. The ~20lbs. electric bikes add is a huge amount of weight. Just the ease of moving the bike around or repositioning it at a light is so nice. A super light weight FS bike, say under 25lbs. must be a treat to pedal.

                In addition, the more I ride IGH bicycles in general, the more I like them. Shifting without pedaling and even at a stop is great. The rare very expensive Rohloff 15spd IGH can't be that far off in my future. ;-) Finding the perfect bike to put one on may take some time...

                The pictures show how I left the shifters and cables for both the 3spd (left side SRAM X9 under bar thumb) and 5spd (right side above bar lever - still waiting on S-A to stock their C50 5spd under bar thumb model in the USA) in place. This way both wheelsets can be easily used and both have 20T sprockets, so the chain doesn't ever have to be touched.

                This Niner Jet 9 is perfectly geared for pedaling with a hill climb assist throttle only setup. I can easily ride it like a bicycle, yet at only a 1:1 low 1st gear, that electric assist will come in handy when the trail get steep. For now, it's a wonderful FS pedal ride for my local outings. I can't say enough good things about the RCT3 shocks. There is a distinct difference in all 3 settings.
                Last edited by Rider; 12-02-2017, 06:13 PM.
                2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                Comment


                  #9
                  I thought it would be worth while to post up pictures of the Specialized Compound Control 29x2.2 tire to show clearance (top and bottom) on a 2013 Aluminum Niner Jet 9 and its' tread pattern. This appears to be a good street and dirt road tire. The tread is less aggressive than the Surly Extraterrestrial on the front, but good enough for local SoCal dry hard pack dirt trails.
                  2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                  2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                  2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Lots of new parts came in today. I picked up another Specialized Compound Control 29x2.2 for the front. The Big Surly Extraterrestrial worked fine, but when torqueing the pedals hard or cornering hard the rims and tires flex enough to rub on the forks. No biggie, but when my LBS has these tires for only $17.50 it's hard to justify wearing out the ET on the pavement. I'll save them for my next off-road touring build.

                    A batch of freewheel ISIS crank parts from Sick Bike showed up too. Can't wait to get this 148mm/68-73mm BB ISIS freewheel crank installed to see if everything clears the freewheel sprocket on the MY1018.

                    Finally my Topeak Midloader 4.5L under top tube bag came in. It's a perfect fit for the XL frame and has super strong mounting straps, plus the down tube water bottle cage is still useable; although I think I'll switch to a side loader cage. It measures 18.1" x 4.7" x 2.4". A 3" wide battery pack should easily fit by expanding each side out by about 1/4".

                    Hopefully once this batch of parts are installed, the only thing left will be to select a battery and wire it all up...
                    Last edited by Rider; 12-14-2017, 02:26 PM.
                    2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                    2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                    2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Oh, I almost forgot another cool new part Santa's Elves dropped of early, a Jones SG 2.5" Riser 710mm Loop H-Bar! Upon initial inspection it's apparent Jones makes quality products. The bar comes with bar ends and detailed instructions for setup and mounting. I think I will try them on this project first, because I just setup the Fourier Trailheads for the Soma B-Side "redo" project for banging out the miles at slightly higher speed gearing. It has 9" of straight bar on each side to work with. Settiing it on top of the Fourier Trailhead setup with custom Ergon horns, the bar ends stop at about the same location, but they have more sweep and it's further out. These are going to be very interesting to experiment with.

                      .
                      2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                      2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                      2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Bolted it on and went for a 25 miler to test it out. I didn't put any grips on, just grabbed my gel gloves and hit the trail. Very comfortable! The width isn't too wide for this 6'2" rider, but I normally rode with my hands about right in the middle of the long grip area. I set them right at Jones recommended 11 degree of slant downward towards the rider. Felt great right there. Time to get wrenching on that freewheel crank setup and order up some 7.5" long grips.
                        2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                        2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                        2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                        Comment


                        • Rider
                          Rider commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Cool! I ordered up a pair of ESI 8.25" XXL Extra Chunky grips today. I really like the ESI Extra Chunky thickness and comfort. I run them on both my rides now and sold off all my other grips.

                        • calfee20
                          calfee20 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I installed the Jones bars the other day and I am very impressed. That 45 degree angle is very natural and comfortable. I have a new stem clamp coming to move the bars up and back a bit. It should be perfect then.

                        • Rider
                          Rider commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I agree and recommend using the Jones recommendation of (IIRC) 11 degrees angle lower to the rear of the bike. This Niner with Jones bars is the most natural fitting bike I've owned to date and the 100mm front/80mm rear suspension with wide rims sporting semi-balloon tires makes it cruise right over just about anything that shows up in front of you with that Cadillac feel; yet it handles like a true XC MTB.

                        #13
                        The new freewheel crank setup is on and what a difference it made. I didn't realize how worn out the BB was that came with this used frame. The cranks spin so nice now without any drag. The clearance between the right crank and the motor shaft looks good now with this 148mm axle BB. The motor is mounted up with completed brackets; although I may polish them in the future. Instead of welding a bracket between the two halves that bolts to the lower water bottle inserts, I think I will make a simple bracket that goes from one water bottle mount to the other with a tab on it for a strap around the motor to attach to. That will provide a clean and simple method of additional support holding the motor from rotating downward on the BB mounts.

                        Absolutely loving this ride as a pedal bike, especially now with the new free spinning BB. Can't wait to get the grips on and take another long ride with these comfy bars.
                        Last edited by Rider; 12-16-2017, 06:56 PM.
                        2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                        2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                        2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                        Comment


                        • CoopV2
                          CoopV2 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Very nice build,

                        #14
                        Did another long pedal ride today with the motor attached. Went over 30 miles and didn't notice the added weight at all. Took some Xmas chocolates to my favorite LBS mechanic and crew too. He and the crew there are so good to me answering all my little PITA questions. I want them to know how much I appreciate it.

                        Here's a quick drawing of the bracket I want to make that bolts to the lower water bottle mounts with a tab sticking out for a strap around the motor to attach to. Very simple light weight effective design.
                        Last edited by Rider; 12-19-2017, 04:51 PM.
                        2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                        2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                        2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                        Comment


                        • Rider
                          Rider commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Scratched this idea for something much simpler. See post #17...

                        #15
                        What a wonderful day for a bike ride here in SoCal today! Did a 40+ mile pedal ride on the Niner Jet 9 with just about everything installed except the battery. The replica 18th Century Lady Washington ship was docked in Long Beach today. Holy smokes does that ship have a lot of ropes all over it. Very beautiful old ship in its' own way. More information about it can be found on the web...
                        2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                        2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                        2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X