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Niner Jet 9 Variable Control On-Demand Electric Assist

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    #16
    Received an nice piece of BLING from China today. It's a stem cap that closely matches the suspension bolts on this Niner Jet 9. Of coarse it has a small defect in it, but for 99 cents I say what the heck!

    The 12T MY1018 freewheel from China I received was defective. Luckily the seller says he will stand behind his eBay product and send out another one. I asked him to test it for correct operation before sending. Waiting on that now...

    After that arrives, the battery is the only thing left to buy before powering up.
    2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
    2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
    2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

    Comment


      #17
      The replacement MY1018 freewheel has arrived. This one seems to freewheel just fine. I installed it and spaced the ISIS downhill bottom bracket with freewheeling sprockets to match the 12T/42T electric drive sprockets and the 30T/20T pedal sprockets

      Ended up scrapping the idea for a bracket that would hold the motor in place from rotating, because I came up with a wonderful simple solution. The 2013 Niner Jet 9 has two water bottle insert mounts on the lower down tube. I screwed the top mounting screw all the way in and rotated the motor up until it contacted that screw head, then I used a longer screw in the bottom insert with a locking jam nut. The bottom screw is simply backed out and tightened up against the motor, then the locknut is jammed adjust the frame insert. Super clean and simple. It isn't moving anywhere!

      Everything worked great on the initial pedal test ride. The motor freewheel simply spins freely with a faint clicking while I pedal. Only item left to purchase is the battery. Getting excited about powering up this new ride now!!!
      Last edited by Rider; 02-18-2018, 02:53 PM.
      2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
      2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
      2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

      Comment


        #18
        Still having a hard time finding the battery pack I’d like for this ride. Is there anyone in the SoCal area that can make a small light weight 36V battery pack with about 8-10Ah out of Panasonic-Sanyo GA batteries? My controller is limited to 25A and I want the pack to have a built in BMS. Preferred size is <3” wide X ~4” high X length pretty much open up to 12”. I know little about electronics or building my own battery pack.
        2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
        2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
        2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

        Comment


          #19
          I decided to go with this battery:

          36V 16Ah/576Wh 10S5P with BMS made up of Samsung 3200mAh Li-Ion 18650 Cells; complete with 10S 3A 42V charger.

          It arrived quickly and weighs in at only 5lbs. 14-7/8oz. Measurements are: ~7-1/2" x ~3-3/4" x ~3-1/4"
          Last edited by Rider; 03-11-2018, 08:24 AM.
          2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
          2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
          2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

          Comment


            #20
            Now it's time to wire it all up...

            Most of the connections are straight forward, but a few clarifications are needed. The picture below is a page from the YIYUN YK31C 36V/500W (version) Controller Manual and pictures of the controller itself with the throttle I'm using. I used color pencils that match the wire color connections up the way I believe they should be connected.

            Questions:

            1) At the bottom of the manual page it states, "Fuse or circuit breaker protection is required between speed controller and battery pack." I assume that means between the first connection at the top of the page they call "Power Connector" or does the BMS take care of this?

            2) What does "VCC" mean in the "Ignition Switch" description? (Voltage Continuous Current? Just a wild guess.)

            3) The one connection I'm not sure of is the "Power Positive" GREEN wire coming off the throttle. I believe it needs to be a direct battery positive feed to give a correct reading for battery volt level. Is the "Indicator" RED positive such a feed? (I can and will check it with a volt meter once I hook up everything else, but it would be nice to know now if possible)

            The instructions says to connect everything "before" connecting the battery. My plan was to connect the battery and check each connection to juice levels first. I would hate to connect everything like it says, then connect the battery and find out the hard way I have something wrong. Although it is hard to make a mistake with such simple wiring.

            Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
            Last edited by Rider; 03-11-2018, 08:31 AM.
            2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
            2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
            2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

            Comment


              #21
              IT'S ALIVE!

              Pulled out a volt meter and checked the battery charge as received; it read 38.5V.

              Next I connected all the wires as indicated above except the GREEN throttle to RED Indicator Controller wire and both motor wires. The volt meter read zero for each of those. Pushed the IGN on button at the throttle body and the RED Indicator Controller wire turned full hot at 38.5V (BINGO!). Also checked the controller to motor RED wire and got 0V until I depressed the throttle lever; then up the voltage reading went (BINGO!). All appeared good, so I connected the rest of the wires, lifted the rear tire and hit the throttle. WE HAVE LIFTOFF!!! Of course an initial test ride was in order...

              VCC turned out to mean: Voltage Common Collector

              I went with the assumption that the BMS has a circuit breaker if problems arise and didn't put a manual fuse block between the battery to controller wires. If anyone knows this not to be true, please chime in. I'd hate to have the word ASSUME come back to haunt me as an acronym.

              I put rubber caps on all connectors not in use, including the charging plug coming off the battery.

              First impressions:

              1) As known the motor does make a noise similar to what I have heard many RC remote control cars make. It is not slient like a BBS02-B, but isn't intolerable for my intended purpose which is as an on-demand hill climb assist.

              2) For some reason I thought the throttle body and ignition on/off switch had three power level settings. Not sure why I had this in my mind (probably the 3 battery lever indicators on the throttle body), but it only has on/off. Not an issue when using a throttle as a variable power control lever though.

              3) I can hit 20mph in 5th gear. I can also hit 20mph in 3rd (1:1 on my S-A 5spd IGH) when not pedaling. The gearing setup was designed to be the 20mph speed limiter and it appears to be just about right.

              4) The throttle lever seems to stick in the on position at times, but a simple flick of the thumb sends it back to off. I think this is something simple to resolve and it might even stop after repeated use. Currently this issue is sporadic.

              I put the battery on the charger and hope to ride it over to my local mild MTB "loop" for a test ride climbing hills today. I will report back after a full test.
              Last edited by Rider; 03-13-2018, 07:32 AM.
              2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
              2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
              2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

              Comment


                #22
                First real test ride was a success! Did about 25 miles, of which about 10 was the Fullerton Loop; a mild MTB dirt trail with a few climbs. The assist let me climb hills I couldn't have without it with my current 30T X 20T sprockets. I'd really like to find a Sturmey-Archer C50 24T rear IGH cog for this eMTB. The Sturmey-Archer site says they make one, but I can't find one anywhere in the whole world. Lower gearing is the only real thing I came back from that ride with climbs wanting. Plenty of power if the gearing is better suited for the terrain.

                Because it is throttle only, I did find myself wanting to put it in 5th gear and ride to and from the trailhead without pedaling. That is hard to resist when it is available. I don't even have a throttle on my other eMTB that is now setup for road use, but it has 750W's of power at the push of the electric power level button which varies from 1 of 9 to 9 of 9 and it automatically bumps up the power until the speed of each level is met when needed.

                Successful, fun and great to be back on the dirt trails again is my first impressions. It didn't even have a full charge when I left and two of the three lights were still on when I finished. Next ride I will fully charge the battery and take a starting voltage and ending voltage reading for a better feel of power usage (no display). One thumb up and one thumb on the throttle so far!
                Attached Files
                Last edited by Rider; 03-31-2018, 02:08 PM.
                2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                Comment


                  #23
                  Did a 25 miler to the beach and back on flat ground other than bike trail road underpasses. This thing doesn't use hardly any juice at all, because I'm only adding assist as needed. I did get a killer tail wind on the way home and got it up to 28-30mph with assist in 5th gear, so once again all the various variables come into play. Forgot to check voltage before and after; maybe next time...
                  2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                  2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                  2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                  Comment


                    #24
                    VERY BADLY WANTED: Sturmey-Archer C50 24T rear IGH cog!

                    If you know where I can purchase one please post. Thanks.
                    2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                    2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                    2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                    Comment


                    • calfee20
                      calfee20 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Take a sprocket that you can get. Probably the 18 tooth and use it as a hub to weld a 24 tooth sprocket to it.

                    • Rider
                      Rider commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I've considered that. Did you know of a cheap source for a 24T flat 3/32" sprocket that that will work for that purpose?

                      (I'm currently running a 3/32" chain with a S-A 20T C50 3/32" dished cog)

                    • calfee20
                      calfee20 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I searched around the other day and came up empty. Shimano, S-A, and Rohloff do not seem to have a 24 tooth sprocket. There are 23 tooth and 25 toothed ones but no 24. I started looking up industrial supply but the prices were so high you may as well buy a whole cassette or freewheel and break it up to get your desired sprocket.

                      Grind off the chrome before you weld.

                    #25
                    Sturmey-Archer C50 cog/sprockets are hard to find in the USA. There is a seller on eBay (Practical Cycles I think?) that sells them, but can't ever find the 24T C50 Sturmey-Archer says they make.

                    I just ordered a 3/32" 25T for a Sturmey-Archer 8-speed. They appear to have a very large center hole and only cost $6. I'll try welding that to the OEM ??T sprocket that came with the 5spd hub kit.

                    This is the gearing now using a 30T x 20T:
                    1st - 0.96 (64%)
                    2nd - 1.20 (80%)
                    3rd - 1.50 (100% 1:1 Direct Drive)
                    4th - 1.875 (125%)
                    5th - 2.34 (156%)

                    With the new 30T x 25T:
                    1st - 0.768 (64%)
                    2nd - 0.96 (80%)
                    3rd - 1.20 (100% 1:1 Direct Drive)
                    4th - 1.50 (125%)
                    5th - 1.875 (156%)

                    So the 25T will simply exchange the high 5th gear for a lower 1st gear.

                    I think this will work very well for "pedaling" off-road. The 1:1 (3rd) now becomes my starting gear and I will have a 25% gear gap 3spd with two granny lows for climbing.
                    Last edited by Rider; 04-24-2018, 08:18 PM.
                    2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                    2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                    2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                    Comment


                      #26
                      The Sturmey-Archer 8spd 25T 3/32" sprocket was a great pick! As you can see in the photos, it has a huge center hole (~62-63mm?) compared to the 5spd C50 which is 50mm. There are 20 holes around the outside that might be able to be used with a C50 20T to attach the two together (?), but I think I will have the original 18T that I don't use (pictured with the 25T) lathed down to match the 25T hole, grind off the 3 tits and slide one into the other to be welded up.

                      Road the eNiner to Seal Beach today for their annual Car Show (about 12-13 miles one way). Surprised to see 5 or 6 electric bikes while I was there and 5 or 6 gas powered bikes too. Had a couple people take interest in my creation. None of them knew anything about XC race MTB's or electric bikes, but they saw the "motor" hanging down there. Motorheads can't resist a motor! Lol...

                      NOTE:
                      Currently I'm running a 30T x 20T with my MY1018 freewheel crank setup which is a 1.5 ratio (30/20). With this new 25T I can get down to a 1.68 gear ratio running a Bafang 42T Lekkie Bling Ring; 42T x 25T is 1.68 (42/25). That should be fine with the extra 300W and extra 12V of the BBBS02B over the MY1018 (750W/48V vs. 450W/36V). This will come in handy if I ever build the Surly ECR Extraterrestrial Jones Loop H-Bar Adventure Rig of my dreams. Surly will have the XL framesets back in stock about mid July... (Hummm...)
                      Last edited by Rider; 04-28-2018, 03:54 PM.
                      2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                      2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                      2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                      Comment


                        #27
                        Merged the original 18T 5spd and a 25T 8spd together, and a Sturmey-Archer 5spd 25T rear cog is born!

                        Just need to have it heli-arced in a few spots on the backside.
                        2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                        2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                        2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                        Comment


                        • calfee20
                          calfee20 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Nice. I could tack it for you but it would be a bit out of the way.

                        • Rider
                          Rider commented
                          Editing a comment
                          My brother is a journeyman union pipe fitter welder and now runs one of their welding training centers in LA, so I'm covered there. Plus I have a couple local welders close by that are great at squeezing my little project welds in on short notice for reasonable prices. In fact, once I took a Ti road bike to one of the local guys to repair a cracked seat post tube after I did a head-on into a beach cruiser that wondered into my lane while I was traveling at about 20mph (luckily no major injuries). He was so excited to weld on Ti that he said he'd do it for free if I brought him the Ti rod and a small piece of Ti tubing to practice on first. That frame was custom made by a group of Aero Space road bike guys that were family friends, so I was able to get the rod and material from them. He said the Aero Space Ti was so pure to weld on he almost wet himself (lol). Great to have good local welders that are nice people too. I live close to where Boyd Coddington's Hot Rod shop used to be. There's still a small manufacturing base here and real old-school machinist, but it's fading fast.
                          Last edited by Rider; 06-10-2018, 04:19 AM.

                        #28
                        With a little America ingenuity, the unobtainable becomes obtainable. Walla! A Sturmey-Archer 5spd 25T rear cog is installed.

                        2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                        2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                        2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                        Comment


                        • calfee20
                          calfee20 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Nice work. Do you have a lathe to do that initial machine work?

                        #29
                        Funny you should ask. I don't have a lathe and the neighbor that did moved away, so I went hunting through all my drawers to see if I could find something with a 50mm diameter. I found an aluminum knob/dial of some kind that was close. I put it in a drill and ran the drill the opposite way of the grinder to take the finger grip knurls off and get it exactly 50mm. Then I filed 3 notches in it for the 18T sprocket to mount perfectly centered on it. Finally I added a couple large washers and a piece of ABS plastic pipe that was a little over 50mm ID as a spacer, and sandwiched it all together with a bolt and long cap nut. Now that it was securely mounted and perfectly centered, I put the whole thing in a drill and spun the 18T sprocket the opposite way against the grinding wheel until it was the size of the center hole in the 25T. The last step was to file off the 3 tits on the 25T so the ground down 18T (now a ~62-63mm circle) fit perfectly inside. When there is a will, there is a way.

                        This homemade tool is now sitting in my bike tool box.
                        Last edited by Rider; 05-04-2018, 06:17 AM.
                        2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                        2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                        2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                        Comment


                        • calfee20
                          calfee20 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Wow I am impressed!!!

                        #30
                        Took it out for a hilly test ride. She climbs like a Billy goat now! I missed the old higher 5th gear on the ride to the trail, but didn't miss it on the trail itself. I climbed most grades in 2nd, but there are a couple really steep short climbs on this loop that the new 1st gear crawled up without a hitch. Much less strain on the motor and parts too.

                        Here's a couple picture from out on the trail today. The last one is me in my new "Da Brim" bicycle helmet sun shade brim. This is the "Sport" model. There's a fire down by the lake, CODE 3! Lol...
                        2018 Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build
                        2013 Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
                        2016 Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build

                        Comment

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