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Rhino frame being delivered, what direction would you take the build?

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    Rhino frame being delivered, what direction would you take the build?

    Hi All,

    My Rhino frame, fork, handlebar, battery box, fenders, racks, rims and spider tires, have shipped. I know I'll be itching to get it built once it arrives, but I'm really not sure what direction to take the build in. Cyclones don't seem to be available through Luna for the time being. Maybe a BBSHD is the way to go, but it looks as if it would point straight down. I'm interested in hub motor options, and I've been trying to do the research, but I can't say I feel nearly well informed enough to order what I will likely be the happiest with.

    This thread will be updated as I move through my build, and a damn fine bike will be created. I would prefer the process of getting to that point benefit from some sound planning.

    Using parts that you can offer some details on how to source, how would you build out this Rhino? Thank you for your ideas and support!
    a beauty, hope to be to this point soon
    Last edited by Rio; 1 week ago.

    #2
    Rhino parts were delivered to my workplace yesterday. I attached some images. A nice size load of parts made the trip home with me last night on my XT/BBSHD/WOLF bike that's been a favorite for commuting recently (see images). I'll be getting some things for the build ordered early next week, so your thoughts on what would be an awesome setup would be appreciated.

    No front rack in the box , that hurt, but maybe they can get me one.

    Rio

    Comment


      #3
      My vote goes to waiting for a Cyclone. I have five fat tire ebikes, all with hub motors. I have to say that changing a flat tire in the (rear) wheel with the hub motor (usually the one to get a flat) is annoying. Plus the wide hub motor limits me to only a 5-speed freewheel, even with 190mm dropouts.

      What are the dropouts on this frame?

      How long is the wait for a Cyclone? You could build your wheels while you wait.

      For your setup, I would go for:

      (1) a lot of power (e.g., 3000W) in a 72V system,
      (2) good controller heat management, so maybe 24 FETs,
      (3) maximum braking ability (e.g. 4 piston 203mm hydraulic),
      (4) e-brake motor cutoff,
      (5) a battery that can supply at least 40A continuous,
      (6) high capacity battery (e.g. 26Ah) to avoid range anxiety,
      (7) a lot of safety lighting and reflectors,
      (8) lighting that does not use power from the battery (i.e. rechargeable or AAA lights),
      (9) quality, feature rich display,
      (10) maximum waterproofing, and
      (11) quality components.

      Regarding quality parts, I just built a simple pedal bike and the components (not including the frame) cost me over $2,200. This was painful! Worth it, I guess, but a lot of financial damage to the family budget. It sure was fun putting the bike together.
      Last edited by commuter ebikes; 6 days ago.

      Comment


        #4
        commuter ebikes

        I thought I had those power specs covered inexpensively browsing em3ev; my smile faded when I read the bare motor weighs in at 8.9 kilos; that's 20lbs! I'd consider it to get this bike out on the road if I don't figure out sourcing something better.

        I'm with you on the high capacity battery, and there looks to be some limitations. The little beauty in the attached image arrived from Germany today. I have 100 pack of Q30 right now, so without ordering more, so I could only do 20s5p. I have yet to play around assessing the capacity of the box that fit's in the frame (see image), but I recall on the 5000w Rhino advertised the largest battery offered was a 17.5Ah. I'm thinking that was 100 cells and there wasn't the capacity for 120.

        My assessment of high quality components may by skewed by being a cheap bastard at heart, but I think the recent XT stuff is pretty awesome and it's really affordable. With a bike this heavy, I won't go with less than 4 piston brakes. I have been finding bike-discount.de to be pretty amazing with prices and make it to my office in Seattle in no longer than 10 days. An example: $219.54 for Shimano ZEE BR-M640-B Disc Brake Set with H03C Metal or $209.54 for XT Disc Brake BR-M8020 Set with H01A. I'll go with the Metal over the Resin though. Those sets are everything but rotors which are also cheaper there.

        Thanks for writing! Please save me from the 20lb motor! I just don't know where to go.



        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Rio View Post
          commuter ebikes

          I thought I had those power specs covered inexpensively browsing em3ev; my smile faded when I read the bare motor weighs in at 8.9 kilos; that's 20lbs! I'd consider it to get this bike out on the road if I don't figure out sourcing something better.

          I'm with you on the high capacity battery, and there looks to be some limitations. The little beauty in the attached image arrived from Germany today. I have 100 pack of Q30 right now, so without ordering more, so I could only do 20s5p. I have yet to play around assessing the capacity of the box that fit's in the frame (see image), but I recall on the 5000w Rhino advertised the largest battery offered was a 17.5Ah. I'm thinking that was 100 cells and there wasn't the capacity for 120.

          My assessment of high quality components may by skewed by being a cheap bastard at heart, but I think the recent XT stuff is pretty awesome and it's really affordable. With a bike this heavy, I won't go with less than 4 piston brakes. I have been finding bike-discount.de to be pretty amazing with prices and make it to my office in Seattle in no longer than 10 days. An example: $219.54 for Shimano ZEE BR-M640-B Disc Brake Set with H03C Metal or $209.54 for XT Disc Brake BR-M8020 Set with H01A. I'll go with the Metal over the Resin though. Those sets are everything but rotors which are also cheaper there.

          Thanks for writing! Please save me from the 20lb motor! I just don't know where to go.


          I would argue that you want this weight because of the copper that will manage the heat. A QS Motor 50H hub motor http://www.cnqsmotor.com/en/article_...Motor/259.html is rated at 3000W continuous and weighs 28.2 pounds.

          I have deployed a Crystalyte 4060 motor (very similar to a 4065) http://www.crystalyte.com/h40%20series.htm which weighed 19.9 pounds. It was advertised as 3000W continuous, but it always overheated at 3000W continuous. I took off the motor and sold it at a loss.

          FYI I have 20s9p and I have my current limited to 41A in a 72V system. My battery capacity is only 19.8Ah because I have 2200mAh cells. I can go WOT for only about 13 miles, but my (bike + rider + cargo) weight is a whopping 350 pounds. You say that you have 100 of these https://www.imrbatteries.com/samsung...t-top-battery/ and I am glad that they are each 3000mAh capacity. I believe that makes for a 15Ah, 72V battery. That is 1080Wh.

          My battery is 1425Wh and I actually can ride at 2850W for half an hour. So with a 1080Wh battery you could ride at 2160W for half an hour. How long do you plan to ride and at what average power?

          The link says that the Q30 cells have a maximum continuous discharge current of 15A, so 5 rows in parallel gives you up to 75A continuous. What is the rating on your BMS?

          What do you think your (rider + bike + cargo) value will be? What is your anticipated ride distance?
          Last edited by commuter ebikes; 6 days ago.

          Comment


            #6
            Great info! I'm in the city and am used to only short trips because I'm running 52v 30Q Wolf pack on BBSHD (hot rod programming, no access to ludicrous) pretty much WOT everywhere, so I'm not getting much further than you. I can pack a second wolf, but rarely take the trip it's necessary. I don't have a BMS for a 72 volt system yet, so recommendations would be appreciated; am I right that you suggest something rated at 80A or more?. I'm usually about 195lbs, and with a 28lb motor it would be nice if the bike was under 100lbs I'm thinking.

            Comment


              #7
              How tall are you? Put a couple of fat tires on it and see if you can straddle the frame. Then check seat pedal relationship because it is kind of strange. http://electricbike-blog.com/2017/04...cargo-fatbike/

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Rio View Post
                Great info! I'm in the city and am used to only short trips because I'm running 52v 30Q Wolf pack on BBSHD (hot rod programming, no access to ludicrous) pretty much WOT everywhere, so I'm not getting much further than you. I can pack a second wolf, but rarely take the trip it's necessary. I don't have a BMS for a 72 volt system yet, so recommendations would be appreciated; am I right that you suggest something rated at 80A or more?. I'm usually about 195lbs, and with a 28lb motor it would be nice if the bike was under 100lbs I'm thinking.
                What is the circuit board in post #4 in this thread, I wonder.

                I use 100A BMS units. They were expensive, but ithey have never given me any trouble. I had 50A BMS units, and three out of four of them melted (my fault for pulling 60A continuous).

                So the Cyclone motor weighs 20 pounds? That's not so bad.
                Last edited by commuter ebikes; 6 days ago.

                Comment


                  #9
                  If you are thinking of a Cyclone you might consider a Lightning Rod small block. The frame was kind of built for them. Here is a thread of a build with one on an Electra frame. http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...fat-tire-build

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	LunaDriveL-R.jpg Views:	1 Size:	105.1 KB ID:	75959
                  I believe this setup is just for the Cargo frame.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    It is also begging to be a 2WD

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by calfee20 View Post
                      If you are thinking of a Cyclone you might consider a Lightning Rod small block. The frame was kind of built for them. Here is a thread of a build with one on an Electra frame. http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...fat-tire-build

                      Click image for larger version Name:	LunaDriveL-R.jpg Views:	1 Size:	105.1 KB ID:	75959
                      I believe this setup is just for the Cargo frame.
                      I took a quick look at the lightning rod site; wow! Are you saying they may already have a design that fits the rhino frame really well? That would be amazing. My only experience is with Bafang mid-drives, so I'm bias, and the idea of a very powerful mid-drive is very appealing. Also, hell of a point that that is what the frame was designed for!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by calfee20 View Post
                        How tall are you? Put a couple of fat tires on it and see if you can straddle the frame. Then check seat pedal relationship because it is kind of strange. http://electricbike-blog.com/2017/04...cargo-fatbike/
                        I'm right at 6'. I ordered a lay back seat post today after reading that is likely a good idea.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post

                          What is the circuit board in post #4 in this thread, I wonder.

                          I use 100A BMS units. They were expensive, but ithey have never given me any trouble. I had 50A BMS units, and three out of four of them melted (my fault for pulling 60A continuous).

                          So the Cyclone motor weighs 20 pounds? That's not so bad.
                          That is a kWeld. I haven't gathered everything to run it yet, but am looking forward to putting a pack together for this bike with it. Frank/Tatus59 on endless sphere, the German Electrical Engineer that created it, seems incredibly competent, and from the reviews I found, the US versions of the reasonably priced spot welders that one can get on Amazon and other places seem not to perform well at all. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=89039 check him out; he's cool!
                          Last edited by Rio; 4 days ago.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I said the frame was "Kind of" made for that motor. It was a test bed for lots of different motors. I found a thread of a big block build here. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi...hp?f=6&t=82756

                            II found another thread. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi...lightning+luna

                            If you like to read there is a 200 page thread over on the sphere about lightning Rods. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi...lightning+luna
                            Last edited by calfee20; 4 days ago.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              You should probably check out this thread to. I gets into the history of the bike. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi...lightning+luna

                              If you are wondering why I have all of this info I have one of these. https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...rgo-frame-with

                              Comment

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