BBSHD programming

[Lostboy423]

Anybody interested in talking about programming the BBSHD. I have programmed both my units mostly for trail riding. I found that the initial programming gave too much power (and therefore speed). I geared down to the Mighty Mini ring which definitely helped but still found uphill trail riding speeds too fast. So I have been riding using Keplers settings from Endless Sphere (see Karls blog on electricbike-blog.com as well). I do like the lower limit current (%) settings it gives less power to the motor and gradually ramps up as PAS increases. PAS 1 in Keplers settings is 10% whereas the stock setting is around 50%.

I understand from a couple of Eric's posts that the stock programming has recently changed to try to fix this issue. Could you let us in on the new settings?

Also programming is much easier since Penoff has rewritten the programming software https://penoff.wordpress.com/2016/01...sion-software/

[CraigAustin]

Very interested, although I'm a street rider so more curious if extra power can programmed through the stock controller.

I may have misread the various hot-rod articles, but their solutions don't seem to add power, just rejigging elements to improve the off-road experience.

I've ridden my BBSHD 300 miles all over town the past 5 weeks, in all kinds of traffic and terrain. It's awesome when no cars are around. With cars it gets uncomfortable because it's just a bit slow, like during downtown commute or the monster hills around here that have no shoulder and cars are up your @ss.

Another 5 mph would help a lot. If it can't be done, so be it.

[Deranged]

If you change your wheel size to a smaller diameter it will trick the motor to increase speed.

[Lostboy423]

Ya I have tried to think of what someone would need if they were riding on the road. What's important to me is slower speed up hill and being able to start from a standing start. So for me low gearing is important but for you the opposite.

Ultimately gearing and power will determine your top (or low) speed. I don't think you can change power (30a seems to be max) unless you want to pedal harder or faster.

Have you tried any programming changes yet?

[CraigAustin]

Thanks Lostboy. Haven't programmed it yet, don't want to void the warranty unless it's likely to work. Any comments I've read have been vague at best when it comes to adding raw power.

Gearing is a possibility, but what you get on hills, you give up on flats. More power is more power everywhere.

Luna has tested this thing pretty hard and thinks you can put more power through it without much worry. Why go the Cyclone route if the BBSHD is easily capable of another 5 mph? Gman's Cyclone passions aside, you can't beat the BBSHD for silence and stealth.

[Uncle Wayner]

Craig if you have not done any programing yet you are most likely at 25 amps and if you reprogram to 30 amps its going to help you get through the wind and up to speed. Also the change in smoothness from throttle input when you choose current rather than speed in the settings makes a huge difference. I would say forget about the warranty and make the motor work as well as it can. Factory settings are worth changing in my opinion if the motor can be made to work better.

[CraigAustin]

Thanks Wayner, much appreciate the help. Apparently Luna BBSHD's are already programmed at 30 amps, but you're right forget the warranty, I'll dive in and see for myself.

When you say 'choose current rather than speed', can you elaborate just so I don't do something stupid?

[JPLabs]

I'm interested, sure.

For my BBSHD on a fatbike, the PAS 1 was too fast a cadence for me. I lowered PAS 1 limit speed and power both, to about 2/3 of the stock Luna values. Then I adjusted the rest for even numerical spacing. I think the speeds would be better if spaced differently, so the steps are smaller between the lower PAS settings, and larger at the top. Progressively larger steps. But I have been having so much fun riding it I haven't gone back to change it yet.

After I get the speeds where I like them for PAS, I plan to play with 'Current Decay' and 'Keep Current' settings to see how they affect the feel of the PAS. The Bafang will begin to dial back the power as your pedal cadence approaches the Limit Speed. These two settings define the shape of PAS power curve vs. RPM. So they should change the way it feels, but I'm not sure exactly what to expect. I think lowering the decay value may make it easier to keep your desired cadence while adding human power, by helping keep the motor from running away from you. I think it will also make the motor more prone to slowing when going up hills, so may help in the situation Lostboy described.

Has anybody played with these, and if so, what did you think?

[skymon]

I too am interested in getting the power dialed back a little in the lower PAS levels. I put a BBS02 on a hybrid road bike and I've found that there are definitely times when I'm on flat ground when I'm getting more assist than I want even in PAS 1. More importantly, on the BBS02 I bought from Luna most recently, the motor engages differently than a unit I bought a month or two ago. Newer one needs a fairly high cadence to engage motor in any PAS level. I like the "old" one better.
I assume it has something to do with the settings on the "Pedal Assist" tab of the controller programming settings. I'd be interested if someone could tell me which parameters affect the cadence at which the motor engages. From what I've read, it doesn't seem like its the "Limit Current (%)" or "Limit Speed (%)" that will affect this. I ordered a programming cable and will compare the "old" BBS02 settings to the newer one. Have to figure that will make it clear whats different.
Saw a post where Eric mentioned they had changed the programming recently on BBSHD to lower power level at lower PAS a little. And Louis with Luna Support mentioned that they had changed the settings on the motor engagement for safety reasons lately. Not sure what prompted the changes. Anyone else have similar experience to mine?

[JPLabs]

I tried the Penoff custom programming software. Even though I have my Amp limit set to 30A, and it shows 30A in the Bafang programming software, it shows 25A when I open my .el file in the Penoff software. And his software won't let me change it to anything above 25A.

Has anybody else tried to use the Penoff programmer, and if so, could you set 30A current limit?

[M 2.0]

Yes I tried it and found the same. I looked at his source code and noticed he set a hard limit of 25A for the current limit.

Here is the a version I set higher @ 50A and am using currently. The help about popup gives Penoff the credit and show it was upgraded for BBSHD drive.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fcen6yukxar428y/AAAzhJKWAT4DbMRroMLnhix6a?dl=0

Hope it is useful.

[JPLabs]

Thanks! I'll try it.

Just to make sure you didn't achieve a minor miracle: 50A is the software limit, but not a possible BBSHD setting with your version, obviously, right?

[M 2.0]

Correct, the controller firmware does not allow above 30A...I tried to fool it many ways that I could think of.

[JPLabs]

I tried the software, works perfectly, thank you so much. I haven't programmed with it yet, but I've been playing with a cal file. I love the Luna logo and link, nice!

[CraigAustin]

Thanks M. I'm a newbie so just to be clear, you have not found a way to put more than 30 amps through the stock controller? Do you know any other way to boost the power output?

[JPLabs]

As I mentioned, I want to re-tune my PAS settings. I already lowered the PAS1 speed from 44% to 33%. I liked that a lot better for slow cruising. But my spacing across the PAS levels still isn't great.

I made a spreadsheet to help me visualize my settings, so I could more easily pick the right numbers for a smooth progression through the PAS levels. My main goal is to have more PAS settings within my usable cadence range. I think that's about 60-110 RPM for me.

I created a new PAS setup, as shown in the attached picture. First data set shows my current settings; 2nd is my proposed set. I haven't tried the 2nd set, yet. Hopefully tomorrow.

Notice that I now have more PAS levels within my usable cadence range.

The faster the motor RPMs, the more you can feed it. I wanted to avoid pushing the current too high for each PAS level, but on the other hand, my current PAS1 is certainly not overpowered. I tested it with the 33% Speed & 45% Current settings quite a bit, without getting anything hot.

That PAS1 Current setting is 12 % higher than the corresponding Speed setting, which appears to be a safe margin for the way I'm riding. I set the rest of the current % levels to slowly increase from there, with increasing motor RPMs. I don't think these current settings are too aggressive, as I still only wind up with PAS 8 & 9 at 100% power, and both are at a pretty high RPM.

The Excel file is editable. I can post it if anybody wants it to play with it.

EDIT: Here's the file anyway. https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-...2tZTHRPN2NIR1U

[skymon]

Very cool JPL! I cant remember ever really using the upper PAS levels. Not on trails anyway. Spreading out the usable range will be a real improvement.

I'm still not clear on which settings affect the lower limit at which the motor kicks in. (i.e. slowest cadence at which the motor engages)
The settings on the Basic page seem to relate to upper limits exclusively. I could be missing something here.
Maybe that will become obvious when I actually get the cable and do the programming? (Hopefully by tomorrow.)

[JPLabs]

Very cool JPL! I cant remember ever really using the upper PAS levels. Not on trails anyway. Spreading out the usable range will be a real improvement.

I'm still not clear on which settings affect the lower limit at which the motor kicks in. (i.e. slowest cadence at which the motor engages)
The settings on the Basic page seem to relate to upper limits exclusively. I could be missing something here.
Maybe that will become obvious when I actually get the cable and do the programming? (Hopefully by tomorrow.)

I'm pretty sure Time of Stop is what affects that. I dropped mine to 5, which is 50 ms, and it seems to require more pedal speed to engage now. With slow cadence, if it takes more than 50 ms between cadence sensor trigger events, the drive will be off. I think. I haven't played with it since then but I can try raising it a little and see if the motor turns on sooner.

I actually don't want the PAS to stay on at low cadence, in case somebody else tries to ride it in too high a gear. As was pointed out by PoweredRide in a Shift Sensor discussion, low Time of Stop setting prevents this. It forces you to build some RPMs before engaging, which can be good or bad, depending upon your goals.

Here's that discussion:
http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...s-the-question

[skymon]

Thanks JPL. Gotta say, this is not very intuitive. You're saying: Dropping "Time of Stop" (how quickly the drive stops after you stop pedaling) increases the amount of pedal speed needed to engage the motor? (Karl Gesslein mentions the same thing.) I'm probably getting too concerned with the terminology and just need to try it.

I get what you are saying about not wanting the motor to engage if you are in too high a gear. Could be what Louis with Luna meant by "safety reasons" for changing it. Safety of the mosfets anyway.