BBSHD programming

[Harold]

I was wondering aside from the increased top speed and more info, can you fine tune it more than the bbshd controller. At the bottom of this page explains what all the settings do, https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/0...ing-the-bbs02/.
I tried Karl's special sauce settings (aqua) on my gbm with bbshd 42t and Shimano 3 speed igh on combined road and single track. Way off, JPL's was much better. What I find counter to pedaling in the PAS mode is the current cutoff (limit speed %). When starting a climb on a singletrack I'm use to dropping into a lower gear and pedaling harder. With PAS the faster/harder I pedal the less assist I get. I back off and start pedaling slow & light to engage the assist. Maybe I'm missing something. To get around this, I stay pedaling in PAS1 and use the throttle to augment.

[Richard Berg]

I was wondering aside from the increased top speed and more info, can you fine tune it more than the bbshd controller. At the bottom of this page explains what all the settings do, https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/0...ing-the-bbs02/.
I tried Karl's special sauce settings (aqua) on my gbm with bbshd 42t and Shimano 3 speed igh on combined road and single track. Way off, JPL's was much better. What I find counter to pedaling in the PAS mode is the current cutoff (limit speed %). When starting a climb on a singletrack I'm use to dropping into a lower gear and pedaling harder. With PAS the faster/harder I pedal the less assist I get. I back off and start pedaling slow & light to engage the assist. Maybe I'm missing something. To get around this, I stay pedaling in PAS1 and use the throttle to augment.

That's because most of the suggestions out there use the Keep Current feature in conjunction with RPM limits. The goal of these programs -- especially JPL's -- is that PAS level maps to "cruise control" speed.

Smooth, yes, but I find it completely unintuitive. The motor should amplify my efforts, not slow down as I push harder!

My own settings are radically different than what folks here like to discuss. I'm not a trail rider; I am a small bug in a big city, trying not to be squished. This requires more battery, of course, but actually responds like a bicycle.

[Rix Ryds]

Your talking about the difference between PAS and Torque assist. PAS is a switch. On or off. you pedal it goes to the programmed speed. Torque assist senses your effort and amplifies it. Only thing is, there is no torque assist for the BBSHD. At least, not yet! ;)

[Harold]

Richard, Can you post your setup? I'd like to see what other folks are using, and why.

[Richard Berg]

I have more to say on the whys & hows...for now, here's the settings: https://1drv.ms/u/s!AorpdCZInFQfjo9oIvaxtTHHHJabtw

For reference, these settings are mated to a hardtail 29er MTB. Stock 46T chainring, 11-34T rear. I mainly use gears 2 thru 5, with much help from a GearSensor (*huge* upgrade IMO).

[New Mariner]

Nice off road sdttings

[JPLabs]

Actually, it is possible to calibrate for response more like torque control. As Richard noted, my Relaxed PAS is very 'criuse control like'. Speed limited and high current limits. It's just got lower speed thresholds than stock. But it's set up to get Ti the programmed cadence and hold it.

However, if you set speed limits high, and current limits low, for each PAS level, then the motor will pull with more constant torque and NOT just surge to the speed limit set for that PAS level. Try dropping currents to somehing like 5, 10, 20% etc with 100% speed, and you should get a response closer to constant torque assist. Pedal, and the motor helps you push at constant current (torque). But power can be low enough not to automatically push you to the limit speed all the time.

​​​​​Setting throttle start to 1% is also very helpful for singletrack, and is pretty crucial on slippery snow, IMO. Low end throttle precision is GREATLY improved.

[Harold]

Thanks, I'll try this tomorrow. I've been doing the same 10 mile rolling road and single track pretty much everyday, switching between bikes. We are suppose to get snow tomorrow, so, should be exciting. Your settings worked out for my full suspension bbshd 42t with 11/31 cassette. I figured it might need some tweaking for the fat bike with bbshd 42t and the Shimano 3 speed igh.

[Richard Berg]

However, if you set speed limits high, and current limits low, for each PAS level, then the motor will pull with more constant torque and NOT just surge to the speed limit set for that PAS level. Try dropping currents to somehing like 5, 10, 20% etc with 100% speed, and you should get a response closer to constant torque assist. Pedal, and the motor helps you push at constant current (torque). But power can be low enough not to automatically push you to the limit speed all the time.

Right.

Other unusual settings:

• Keep Current = 100%, effectively disabling the cadence limit. This way, the "top speed" of a given PAS level can be quite varied, via gearing + how fast I wanna spin, moment to moment.
• Start Degree Signal No = 14. In other words, I have to complete more than 1/2 crank revolution at a sensible cadence before the motor kicks in. This way, when the flow of traffic hits a stoplight or other bottleneck, I can freely poke my way between cars, downshift, etc without worrying about sudden takeoff. The controller doesn't let us customize what "sensible" means, but in practice it seems about right, perhaps 15RPM. If I need a quick takeoff, that's what the throttle is for.
• PAS Start Current = 30%+, Ramp Mode = sharper than most. Because my Current Limits are much lower than standard programs, and PAS doesn't even register until I'm well under way, I don't need as much "acceleration smoothing" to maintain a comfy jerk-free onset. Also, since I shift gears frequently (FAR more than I would in a "cruise control" style of travel), it's important to me that the motor resumes quickly after shifts.
• For the same reason, Stop Delay / Decay are set as low as possible. I want the motor to quit immediately when I stop pedalling or touch a shift lever. In practice, this doesn't feel any less smooth -- the bike has plenty of momentum, and the freewheel has way less drag than any of the expensive hub-motor bikes I tried. You can feel the cutoff, of course, but it doesn't annoy me at all, because it's matching my intent (unlike motor cutoffs due to Keep Current or Speed Limit).

In sum, I'm essentially defining "PAS level" as how soon I'm willing to drain the battery. Such levels can be coarser -- I keep my display in either 3-increment or 5-increment mode, never the full 9. In-flight adjustments are kept to a minimum. If I had to respond to ever-changing traffic speeds by clicking a fiddly thumb button a half-dozen times, I would probably be dead by now ;-)

Furthermore, I'm making an explicit choice to use throttle for exceptional cases (eg takeoffs), rather than for cruising. Having to manually throttle out of a hard stop (due to Start Degree) isn't ideal, but it's over & done in seconds. Whereas in cruise-focused programs, I'd have to set & hold a throttle position any time I wanted to exceed an artificial Speed Limit (or worse, fiddle with the display buttons).

[Rods]

Thank you for posting your thoughts on this and the link to your settings and .el file. This is very useful to us newbies.
I loaded your settings last night (my first attempt at changing settings) The EMPowered cable and instructions made the process pretty painless.
The change is "almost" exactly what I want for my style and type of riding. (High cadence and mostly flat shared paths) Flat bar commuter 42T and 8 speed 11-28
I can now spin as fast as I want in the lower PAS settings and feel I am adding some human effort. I can also climb as I normally would by finding an easier gear without the motor cutting out. I use 9 PAS settings and can now stay at level 2 for most of my 54km round trip. I can save the power for when I need it.
I am going to fiddle with the Start Degree Signal as I don't use the throttle much and would prefer the PAS to come in sooner, but I must add your settings make the throttle much more responsive. Thanks again.

[craigsj]

First post here...
I started using a BBSHD road bike for hilly commutes in January and developed my own profile. I was puzzled why no settings online looked anything like my preferences so it's nice to see Richard's. My BBSHD is a 50A model so more power than many but that doesn't change the thought behind it.

Like Richard, I used low stop delay/decay and a sharp ramp mode combined with a gear shift sensor. I use a lower PAS start current of 10% but much of that is the higher current of my controller. I also use 100% keep current and 100% speed in all PAS levels. I find anything but 100% speed to make the bike ride unlike a bike...it's undesirable. Unlike Richard I use start degree signal of 3. I don't want to wait for assist to start but instead program assist to start softer. I don't "freely poke my way between cars", that's not something I would ever do. Rapid engagement is never a liability for me although there's the occasional engagement while downshifting approaching a stop, a minor nuisance.

Richard also has similar current levels. I feel that what you want is even spacing of power increments between the levels. That means you can calculate a numeric progression given only the value of PAS 1. Richard seems to use a progression of about 40% but uses PAS 5 and 6 for 2 steps where only 1 is needed. His spacing dips in the middle but is otherwise very consistent. His numbers are also consistent with a lesser progression of 33% except that his values of PAS 8 and 9 are a little low. I'm sure his settings work well.

I chose a starting current of 8% and increases of 37% yielding a progression of 8, 11, 15 ,21 ,28, 39, 53, 73, 100. Obviously, there are a lot of variations of this but the thing is that each increase of PAS level feels the same as the previous one. This allows changing PAS frequently and predictably with varying route conditions, mitigating the absence of torque sensing and reducing the need for throttle. It works exactly like you want and, outside Richard's profile, I've never seen anyone recommend it. Strongly approve. :)

[Harold]

I started with JPL's suggestions above and ended up with raising the current limit % in 12% steps (1, 12%, 24%, 36% etc, and leaving the speed limit % at 100. Also changed the throttle start to 1%, which took care of the wheelies at the start of a climb. Totally changed the way the bike behaves to just what I wanted. I made the same changes to the full suspension bike, but haven't had a chance to ride. Yesterday's snow has turned into today's ice.
With the changes above I'm now using Pas1-5 on combined road & trail, compared to Pas1-3 previously. I will be changing out the 20t rear and 42t front for a 22t and 30t in the next week. Just waiting for the parts to arrive.
Thanks to JPL, Richard and others. Posting your changes and why really helps.

[JPLabs]

I started with JPL's suggestions above and ended up with raising the current limit % in 12% steps (1, 12%, 24%, 36% etc, and leaving the speed limit % at 100. Also changed the throttle start to 1%, which took care of the wheelies at the start of a climb. Totally changed the way the bike behaves to just what I wanted. I made the same changes to the full suspension bike, but haven't had a chance to ride. Yesterday's snow has turned into today's ice.
With the changes above I'm now using Pas1-5 on combined road & trail, compared to Pas1-3 previously. I will be changing out the 20t rear and 42t front for a 22t and 30t in the next week. Just waiting for the parts to arrive.
Thanks to JPL, Richard and others. Posting your changes and why really helps.

Great! We are so fortunate that the Bafang platform is so easily accessible now for tuning, thanks to the smart folks who have obtained the tools and deciphered the controls options. And that Eric lets us talk about it here.

Look what you did, took a bike not very suited to your purpose, and quickly made it safer and more fun for you. The value of that capability is just enormous.

I have pushed my programmed PAS cadences lower and lower this winter, with smaller steps between levels, while learning to set up for studded tires on deeper snow and icy trails. I often use PAS 1 simply as 'stall prevention' - I can ride using the throttle to set my assist level most times, staying above PAS speed. But, climbing a slippery hill or navigating tight, snowy turns on throttle control is hard - too easy to spin or stall out. So, I set up PAS 1 to pull me slowly and steadily. Kind of a 'tractor mode'. 3-4 mph, with a pretty high current limit, and gentle startup. I can let PAS 'catch me' and keep me going as I get bogged down, so I don't get stuck or spin out nearly as often. It's like a hand pushing me to help, just as I start to conk out. Definitely on the edge of bad motor operating speed/current mapping, as it hums and cogs a little at the slowest speeds if the snow is real deep or the hill is steep. So far, so good; risky I think. For summer I won't use this 'rock crawling' speed setting, it would run hot, and isn't needed.

Regarding comments about riders who do not like to change PAS levels often: I suspect that comes from owners using displays with the PAS buttons integrated into the main display. PAS is so much more usable, and safer, with the remote thumb buttons for PAS control. I change levels a lot. I can't stand having to take my hand off the bars to change control settings, personally. I'd love a color display, but I won't give up my thumb buttons for PAS, considering I ride when/where I can barely control the bike with both hands.

[SextonTom]

I am not the brightest light bulb on this forum by a LONG ways and have not read all 159 posts. I have not ordered my program cable yet but when I do get it I will probably have to have my son-in-law help me with the computer part. Am I getting confused or is it possible to give PAS levels much lower %'s and still have throttle mode at current factory levels ? JPLabs , I like the looks of that tractor mode ( 3-4 mph. ) for tight trial riding. With single digit temps and below zero wind chills here in Indiana I won't be doing any riding any time soon.

[JPLabs]

yes, you can dial back PAS levels but keep full power available for throttle.

I wouldn't recommend the 'tractor mode' in warm weather, or for extended use in any conditions. Very difficult operating condition for the motor, and able to heat it up much faster than the design intent controls. That's why I haven't posted the calibration for sharing. It's pretty abusive to the motor kit. I've been using it below freezing, only intermittently, so small risk of overheating anything. But give someone a bike with that cal , let them use it freely for as long as they want to, and they will probably fry the motor and/or controller. With stock levels, that's reportedly very hard to do. With these, I'm sure it's a lot easier.

[Rods]

I think I read somewhere that Penoff's version 2.0 of the Bafang software can't update the Limited Current to 30 amps (max 25) BBSHD
When I read my changes the Limited Current reverts to 25amps
Does anyone have a link or version of the software that allows 30amps? I was hoping M 2.0's version would help but I can't see it in the Dropbox link.
Bafang Programmer Link

[Rods]

Link fixed.
Thanks M 2.0

[SunDog2710]

I tried to download this, and was unable to do so. Also, is this version newer than Penoff's published version. I'm starting to get confused, but I guess I will know once I am able to download this and open the Help | About box and get the version number.

[Rods]

Sorry Sundog , not sure why you can't download it. It worked for me about 6 days ago
The last I looked Penoff was still working on his latest update.
If I understand correctly, M 2.0's version takes Penoff's early 2016 version and tweaks it to fix the 30amp limit for BBSHD

[Churnmaster]

i dont want pas I want throttle only. How do i Program for this ?

[JPLabs]

Just use PAS 0. With the stock program from Luna, it's throttle only. If you need to change the program, I believe setting speed to 1% for PAS zero is the main thing you need. Also make sure the throttle settings can deliver full current.

Read the programming pages if you want to see all the settings...you can't miss finding them with a simple Google....

[pcliteuser]

how do you reset the "average speed & max speed"? i just realized it is not updating anymore im using dpc14 lcd. thanks.

[M 2.0]

Press and hold UP & DOWN buttons together for 1 second to reset AVG Speed / MAX Speed / Trip / Time.

[Rodney64]

If you hold the plus minus fora second then it will reset. You need to cycle to the average speed and reset then move to the max speed and do the reset there as well.

[New Mariner]

JPLabs, I read this complete thread a few weeks ago. Did I read that significantly improved battery life was obtained with some of the settings? I am going to have to read again and take notes. Just got a 36T narrow wide for the BBSHD. Not a commuter gear for sure but a very happy place between the 42T and the 30T. After using all 3, none of them do things perfectly if you want to peddle along. I am going to order a programming cable and essentially dedicate 2 levels of PAS to each. The 42T would get 1 and 2. 1 would be about 50% power than original 1PAS. 2 to be determined. PAS 3-4 would be for the 36T PAS 3 would essentially be PAS 1 for the 36T. Settings to be determined. PAS 4 would essentially be PAS 2 for the 36T. PAS 5 would be the PAS 1 for the 30T and PAS 6 would be the PAS 2 level. Levels to be determined. Just want pedalable levels in the early gears for all 3 of these crank gears. The 42 is very pedalable in early gears, but I want less assist. No concern about the last 3 levels of PAS at the moment. I will figure out the needs for them late.With a progressive throttle, I don't need high levels of peddle assist. Maybe the last 3 levels of PAS would be devoted to a battery saving levels for the 42T which is my cruising gear. Hopefully the above programming can be done, and it is not a pipe dream.

[Jasdidit]

It would be better to make 3 different tunes, one for each chain ring. The chain ring affects pedal cadence, which affects all the PAS levels. PAS 0 needs to be 1, and 1, PAS 9 needs to be 100%, and 100% for full, unrestricted throttle use. This leaves PAS settings 1 - 8 to use for level ground and hill settings. With only 8 settings left, it only makes sense to use 4 settings for the most common riding needs, and the remaining 4 for uncommon riding needs. I use 4 for flat land, 100% speed settings, and the remaining 4 for hill climbing. I think the real trick in your case, is going to be finding what the difference is between the tunes needed for each chain ring.