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    It took less time to just make a clean one instead of trying to explain the one I had =]

    This should be self-explanatory - you enter the green boxes (all of them!) and it will churn out the PAS 0-9 in the orange boxes with "N/A" for the ones that aren't part of the computation.

    I preloaded it with the numbers I used to run that last one I posted so you can see it correlate.
    Attached Files

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      I am looking for the 'road legal' parameters for a bbshd. I have the USB cable and program

      Comment


      • AZguy
        AZguy commented
        Editing a comment
        For the max power of 750W, set your "current limit" on the "basic" page to 15A... 15A x ~50V = 750W

        To limit speed to 20mph you can just set the "speed limit" on both the "pedal assist" and the "throttle handle" pages to 32kph =~20mph

      I was given an 'economy tune' by a fellow user on FEB, whose purpose was to fully take advantage of PAS and give outstanding range. It did that but I found that tweaking it allowed me to make better use of the lower PAS settings - I didn't get much out of the motor until about PAS6 so my adjustments let me leave PAS in at lower levels.

      I pasted in the chart below from my Google worksheet. Sadly the graph that goes with it can't make it over along with the data. Legend for the chart is:
      • Economy: The PAS current level given to me as part of the original tune
      • Econ+: The adjustments I made to current to tweak it for my use.
      • Speed %: The Speed percentage setting in the config software
      • PAS: The PAS level affected
      • The two diff columns list the current differential from stage to stage. I opted for a more smooth increase.
      Biggest deal going to this tune was the limits shown below helped keep the motor from eating amps that just get turned to heat. i.e. it stopped lugging the motor. I'm riding a heavy fat bike and I am a heavy guy as well at 250 lbs. Power consumption and motor heat both went way down. A lighter rider and a smaller bike would want to do things differently.
      Current
      Economy Econ+ Speed % PAS Economy Diff Econ+ Diff
      7 9 25 1
      11 17 30 2 4 8
      15 26 35 3 4 9
      22 36 40 4 7 10
      33 47 45 5 11 11
      47 59 50 6 14 12
      69 72 60 7 22 13
      85 86 80 8 16 14
      100 100 100 9 15 14
      Edit: I have tried tweaking past this with adjustments to Speed % and current and always have gone back to Econ+. Bumping up the Speed % and the current on the individual PAS levels has just resulted in reduced range and no perception of improvement in the PAS response, so I have settled here as the best for me.
      Last edited by MoneyPit; 04-20-2018, 12:14 PM.

      Comment


      • New Mariner
        New Mariner commented
        Editing a comment
        Money Pit, i like those settings. i many others use something similar. i haven't tried starting with speed% that low. My current looks closer to your first column. It will vary with everybody to get that individual feel. I guess depending on where or how you are riding will affect speed% (cadence) as well.

      • MoneyPit
        MoneyPit commented
        Editing a comment
        New Mariner I am trying another variation later today. I never really thought it thru but yuou can put in assistance values at PAS0... it just means the motor is never fully 'off'. What the hell lets try it. With that idea in place, I also took the default Bafang speed % column that most of us probably have never seen (DefaultProfile.el in the Config Tool download) . Further, looked for another smooth increasing-increment differential. This is what its going to look like:

        PAS Level, Current, Speed%, Increment
        4,10,0
        11,20,1,7
        19,30,2,8
        28,40,3,9
        38,50,4,10
        49,60,5,11
        61,70,6,12
        74,80,7,13
        87,90,8,14
        100,100,9,13

        Will be interesting to see the results. Its a more straight curve than the earlier one. In theory at least I will have a just little more juice flowing, so I can potentially drop down one PAS level and make up the difference with my legs. Power will be slightly up and I would like a little bit more exercise. But just a bit.

      Originally posted by AZguy View Post
      I've since changed it a little bit (I think I raised PAS 1 current from 5 to 7% and scaled everything following). I can share but it's really the exponential progression on the current limit that makes this sing and I really think that what works for an old guy with one leg on this specific fat-bike build is unlikely to be optimal for the next guy... unless he's an old guy with one leg and a fat bike LOL!

      Since implementing this I've done about 500mi.

      My range has increased right about 40% while maintaining a slightly higher average speed - when I first churned the numbers I was dubious but time is proving them out. I'm getting tremendous range on the bike now - far more than I'm physically capable of (70-100mi).

      What might be a better share is the spreadsheet calculator I made to compute the current limits. You enter the low current for the lowest pedal assist, the high current for the highest and it works out all the in between values... I'll take a look at cleaning that up for "public" use...
      Think I will try your most recent settings. i am an old guy, with a fat bike, and 2 bad knees. Should be close.

      Comment


      • AZguy
        AZguy commented
        Editing a comment
        If you like keeping things in the constant power range it's been working super well. I've got >1000mi on this and the basic current% for PAS is still the same although i tried some other progressions I keep coming back to this. I presently have set the speed % to 75% in all PAS levels except the one tied to the throttle (PAS0 for me - a bit unusual but since I don't ever use PAS0 for anything else it works) and the keep current way high at 90%.

      @ AZguy, can you post your .el file for that please?

      Comment


      • AZguy
        AZguy commented
        Editing a comment
        The challenge is - which one? I change something in the mix too frequently that if I were to post something it would be some sort of experiment that doesn't reflect what I was running two weeks ago let alone two months ago or two weeks from now.

        I've always been reluctant to post the .el's - not for any concern about people seeing them, just answering questions about something that may no longer be relevant. My thoughts on the tuning is constantly evolving and it sure isn't what it was a year ago - I feel like I was hopelessly naive about them then and I won't be surprised if in a year I feel like I was still that naive today! ;-}


        Personally I think here it's more productive to keep the discussions more focused on a given aspect of the tune instead of posting .el's without the context of all the settings which seems to leave people wondering why something the poster might not even be thinking about is set a certain way - e.g. better to discuss the progression of the PAS current %, whether we set the throttle to current or speed, we can talk about "keep current" and how it relates to max speed %'s, what start current does, constant-current vs. constant power, etc.

        There are definitely settings I've not touched and some I don't understand well or maybe at all.

        I know for me questions about settings I may not have even thought about or comprehend in an old tune set that I'm not using anymore is not terribly efficient...


        And I don't have the laptop with the tune sets with me now anyway =]


        Is there something more specific you are interested in?

      AZ Guy, why did you gofrom 53 to 75 speed

      Comment


      • AZguy
        AZguy commented
        Editing a comment
        I don't think I've ever set it at 53 - I'm not sure where that's coming from. I had set it at 65-70 to limit the maximum pedal cadence since I'm old and have one leg and can't pedal ll that fast and if I over-speed my pedaling my prosthetic leg comes off the pedal (bad) and as time went on I found it increased somewhat and I increased it later to 72 and then 75. I doubt I'll ever set it any higher than 75.

      Originally posted by AZguy View Post
      And a big "d'oh! - I am an idiot moment"....

      Having worked on both DC and AC motor designs over decades when working with DC motors whenever we refer to current in we refer to the motor current (torque). However these settings are for battery current (power) and I didn't realize that until last weekend after hooked up the battery management unit and saw that once I was getting good constant current it was actually constant at the battery!

      It doesn't really make any difference for how I set things up for now but at least now I understand some of the behavior a lot better.

      BTW - I changed my PAS settings from the above to try and utilize PAS 0. I set PAS 0 at 1.5A and scaled everything geometrically (exponentially):


      PAS I% V% Iamps Pw@50
      0 5 53 1.5 75
      1 7 53 2.1 105
      2 11 53 3.3 165
      3 15 53 4.5 225
      4 22 53 6.6 330
      5 33 53 9.9 495
      6 47 53 14.1 705
      7 69 54 20.7 1035
      8 100 64 30 1500
      9 100 100 30 1500


      I've only gone out for an hour or so on this but so far I like it a lot. Since the 1.5A is seldom used (mostly for riding in crowds of people) shucking it down to PAS0. I understand that PAS 0 is sort of intended to be the throttle-only level but I've never quite understood that if we set the throttle to operate at PAS 9 since now it works fine when not pedaling in any of the PAS levels so might as well use it to get more granularity in the steps. Since we've sort of defined PAS 9 as to be the max, particualrly for the throttle and set it to 100/100 - a range I can't really use since I can't pedal that fast I'll leave it relegated to that. I had considered setting the throttle to PAS 0 (100/100) and then pushing my current PAS 8 to PAS 9 (I will likely still try this!) since when I want full power I'm just going to rapidly crank up the PAS and if I'm just banging away good chance I land on 9. This is very bad for me since it's very hard for me to control pedaling with 100% speed and I have to stop and just use the throttle when I inadvertently do this...
      here is your 53% reference. maybe you were at 63?

      Comment


      • AZguy
        AZguy commented
        Editing a comment
        Well there ya go! LOL....

        It may be at that time 53% was all I could muster as far as pedal cadence but looking at my records that lasted all of a couple of weeks or so so clearly it "bugged" me as being too low. The next step up from there was 71% which is very significant and the 53% was my first stab at a constant current approach and just likely too low. I should make more notes on _why_ I change these things... I just make notes on _what_ I change...

        This is why I'm reticent to post .el's =]


        I've been pretty darn happy at 75% and "keep current" at 90% although I recently went to a different chain ring and first gear which might cause me to change things again! FYI - JPLabs and I were discussing keep current in another thread and I don't think either one of us is confident we have the proper understanding of it...
        Last edited by AZguy; 04-19-2018, 08:22 AM.

      Hi all.
      NOOB here with a BBSHD on a 10spd fatbike hardtail (52v 13.5 Ah battery). I would like to adjust my settings so that PA1 makes the bike feel like a 20lb rig instead of the 50lb beast it is. When I ride with friends that don't have an e-bike, the PA1 level is just too much power to even give me much of a workout. Can anyone recommend some slightly modified settings that will address this? I have never really needed PA6-9 as well due to the amount of power applied, so it would seem I could gain some battery life as well by tuning down. I live in a very hilly area so even getting home is a 900' 5 mi climb. Thanks!!

      Comment


      • MoneyPit
        MoneyPit commented
        Editing a comment
        CAMatt take a look at my 'econ+' column and the 'speed%' column on the first post I made on this page. Don't look at the second table I put up in the comments. I am still experimenting with those, although they are certainly more powerful than my originals. I don't think anyone has a setting like what you describe to make 'PAS1' behave as you describe. More like PAS4 in my case. Most people want a smooth graduation from nothing to something and what you describe is a pretty big first stage jump.

      AZguy, do have a link to your discussion with JP labs? As i go back and read things, I am starting to get a better understanding of what is going on. I think maybe I read things quickly the first time, and sometimes miss the point of some things.

      Comment


      Originally posted by AZguy View Post
      And a big "d'oh! - I am an idiot moment"....

      Having worked on both DC and AC motor designs over decades when working with DC motors whenever we refer to current in we refer to the motor current (torque). However these settings are for battery current (power) and I didn't realize that until last weekend after hooked up the battery management unit and saw that once I was getting good constant current it was actually constant at the battery!

      It doesn't really make any difference for how I set things up for now but at least now I understand some of the behavior a lot better.

      BTW - I changed my PAS settings from the above to try and utilize PAS 0. I set PAS 0 at 1.5A and scaled everything geometrically (exponentially):


      PAS I% V% Iamps Pw@50
      0 5 53 1.5 75
      1 7 53 2.1 105
      2 11 53 3.3 165
      3 15 53 4.5 225
      4 22 53 6.6 330
      5 33 53 9.9 495
      6 47 53 14.1 705
      7 69 54 20.7 1035
      8 100 64 30 1500
      9 100 100 30 1500


      I've only gone out for an hour or so on this but so far I like it a lot. Since the 1.5A is seldom used (mostly for riding in crowds of people) shucking it down to PAS0. I understand that PAS 0 is sort of intended to be the throttle-only level but I've never quite understood that if we set the throttle to operate at PAS 9 since now it works fine when not pedaling in any of the PAS levels so might as well use it to get more granularity in the steps. Since we've sort of defined PAS 9 as to be the max, particualrly for the throttle and set it to 100/100 - a range I can't really use since I can't pedal that fast I'll leave it relegated to that. I had considered setting the throttle to PAS 0 (100/100) and then pushing my current PAS 8 to PAS 9 (I will likely still try this!) since when I want full power I'm just going to rapidly crank up the PAS and if I'm just banging away good chance I land on 9. This is very bad for me since it's very hard for me to control pedaling with 100% speed and I have to stop and just use the throttle when I inadvertently do this...
      I noticed in a more recent post you said you were changing crank gears. What crank gear were you using when you came up with these numbers? What is your rear sprocket range and number of teeth? I guess for those of us on cheap freewheel bikes and not so tall grannys, we may start off in PAS 1 at a little higher amps and then continue the 1.5x factor in the rest of our settings? What crank did you change to, and what did it do to your settings? I use several different crank gears as well. Once you figure out the difference, It could be done in the future with a change in current. One single setting change.

      Comment


      • AZguy
        AZguy commented
        Editing a comment
        Heck if I remember! I've run 46, 44, 42, and 39t at some point. These days I'm running a 42t with a 11-46t on the rear.

        However changing chain rings has had nearly zero effect on the tune for me since I'm operating current limited it just doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of difference regarding the tune, just the max and min speeds...

      who has been working with work mode and can explain a little more about it, so that it may be a little easier understood?

      Comment


      • JPLabs
        JPLabs commented
        Editing a comment
        I've played with work mode again lately. High, low, undefined. Several configuration, with varied Keep Current and Work Mode. Was hoping it would effect something noticeable. I can't find any effect, myself. I expected it to affect power, vs cadence. It does not, as far as I could tell. So, I'm hoping for more insight, too.

      • AZguy
        AZguy commented
        Editing a comment
        I've only got a theory that I'm very uncertain about =]

        I did experiment and it seemed to make differences with the speed limits which may have something to do with why I was running lower numbers before (see the previous posts asking why they were low).

      • AZguy
        AZguy commented
        Editing a comment
        I sort of figure JPLabs would chime in - looks like he did at the same time! =]

        In my experiments when it was set to "Undeterminated" it seemed to limit speed differently when I was in different gears - sort of like it was trying to limit a vehicle speed vs. limiting a pedal cadence... But I'm soooo far from settled on what it does. I experimented with some fixed values and it seemed to limit pedal cadence better that way.

        I'd really like a feature (ideally in the batt-man) that would give me pedal cadence readout (or less preferably motor RPM) and ideally log it. Might be interesting to get a cheap wheel speed senor and put it on the pedals and just figure out how to calibrate it to something meaningful...
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