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    PAS Settings Help for Noob

    Had my first day of riding my new build and I am new to ebike said as well. I have the 1500 bbshd on a fatty hunting rig. So I don't know the terminology but while using pedal assist I found the cadence too fast for me which forced me to use my thumb throttle most of the day. Since I am riding dirt roads, fields and woods with some pretty good hills I want a slow cadence with a lot of assist, I'm not looking to break a sweat and burn calories and when PAS kicked in it would force me to too high cadence.

    So I'd like pedal assist to kick in a bit sooner but with slower cadence but i don't know what to adjust.
    Last edited by Alaska_av8r; 11-16-2017, 06:36 PM.

    #2
    https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...shd-mid-drives

    Please check this link out

    Comment


      #3
      To get pedal assist to kick in faster you need the program cable and would adjust the Start Degree setting to something like 4.
      I adjust the Keep Current % to 90 on the Pedal Assist which I believe helps keep the cadence down.

      Comment


        #4
        Thank you I'll look into that I duo have the cable and loaded one of the presets, can't remember which one though

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks pax I already been through that link, I just don't know what to adjust to get the behavior I need

          Comment


          • calfee20
            calfee20 commented
            Editing a comment
            It sounds like your overall gearing is to low.

          #6
          If the pedals try to spin too fast, use less power (lower PAS setting) or a higher gear.

          Only if you are in top gear, already, would you need to actually change the overall gearing.

          Are you running out of gears, is that what you mean? Top gear spins too fast, at too low a speed?

          Are you in lowest PAS already, PAS 1? If you mean PAS 1 has too much power, or too much RPM when wound out, reduce the speed limit % for that PAS level.
          Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

          Comment


            #7
            No I am not running out of gears, what I'm feeling is that I start pedaling and the assist kicks in only when my pedal rpms are too fast for me and the bike starts really accelerating. I would prefer for the assist to begin at a lower pedal rpm and not speed up the bike, right now when assist kicks in and goes to too high pedal rpm, I shift to a higher gear to slow pedal rpm down but this only serves to increase the bikes speed, which I don't want.

            i guess I'm looking for a constant power setting (pedaling force needed) to maintain a set speed, or shift gears.

            heck can't explain this but I'll try. I am not riding my bike for exercise. this is my hunting machine, and if I arrive at my hunting area exhausted and sweating I have defeated the purpose of having the bike. I wanna climb on, pedal at a slow pace, move at a slower speed. I think what is happening to me is the bike pas is thinking you wanna go faster so the pedals speed up and I'm going no no let's go this speed but give me more help so I don't have to pedal so hard.

            not even sure setting that up is possible since I want to exert a constant force on the pedal maintain a pretty constant speed while the load on the motor changes as go up and down hills etc

            funny thing is I can duplicate exactly what I want using throttle only....hah

            im using pas 5 or so and changing gears on bike as needed and as I think more about it I'm not too concerned with what the bikes speed is, I just want to exert a constant force on the pedal (say 15pds) and pedal at a relatively constant speed (slow) and go up and down slight hills.

            maybe as I ride the bike more I'll be able to put into words better what I am looking for...sorry
            Last edited by Alaska_av8r; 11-18-2017, 08:44 PM.

            Comment


              #8
              Is that PAS 5 out of 5 or 5 out of 9? What happens when you use a lower setting. I don't know if you can maintain a high wattage situation with a really low cadence. These motors like to spin. Maybe I am not understanding your situation.

              Comment


                #9
                Originally posted by Alaska_av8r View Post
                No I am not running out of gears, what I'm feeling is that I start pedaling and the assist kicks in only when my pedal rpms are too fast for me and the bike starts really accelerating. I would prefer for the assist to begin at a lower pedal rpm and not speed up the bike, right now when assist kicks in and goes to too high pedal rpm, I shift to a higher gear to slow pedal rpm down but this only serves to increase the bikes speed, which I don't want.

                i guess I'm looking for a constant power setting (pedaling force needed) to maintain a set speed, or shift gears.

                heck can't explain this but I'll try. I am not riding my bike for exercise. this is my hunting machine, and if I arrive at my hunting area exhausted and sweating I have defeated the purpose of having the bike. I wanna climb on, pedal at a slow pace, move at a slower speed. I think what is happening to me is the bike pas is thinking you wanna go faster so the pedals speed up and I'm going no no let's go this speed but give me more help so I don't have to pedal so hard.

                not even sure setting that up is possible since I want to exert a constant force on the pedal maintain a pretty constant speed while the load on the motor changes as go up and down hills etc

                funny thing is I can duplicate exactly what I want using throttle only....hah

                im using pas 5 or so and changing gears on bike as needed and as I think more about it I'm not too concerned with what the bikes speed is, I just want to exert a constant force on the pedal (say 15pds) and pedal at a relatively constant speed (slow) and go up and down slight hills.

                maybe as I ride the bike more I'll be able to put into words better what I am looking for...sorry
                OK, I think I understand. That sounds like the same direction I wanted for tuning. Never have to work too hard or spin too fast. The stock PAS levels were too 'hot rod' for me, I guess. I like to work all the time, meaning cadence can't get too high. So, I reeled in the max RPMs a bunch for my PAS. It is NOT only the speed limits which do this, there are several aspects you can tune to control torque vs cadence, and the max current and keep current limits need to be right, for it to be stable at steady-state.

                I think you will want to make configuration changes with the programming cable to best address this.

                Try this:
                1. On the Pedal Assist tab, reduce Crank Trigger Pulses to make the PAS start at lower cadence. I use 4. Motor will start within the first quarter of a turn on the pedals, IF cadence is high enough, too.
                2. Set stop delay to about 10.
                  1. The longer the time, the slower you can pedal and have PAS stay active. But, also, the longer it takes the motor to stop when you DO stop pedaling.
                3. On the Basic tab, reduce Speed Limit for each of the levels, so you have more usable settings.
                  1. I start as low as 30% or so for PAS 1.
                4. Use all 9 available PAS levels.
                5. Play with Keep Current to help tune it to not run away, but have reserve torque for hills.
                  1. Using a LOW Keep Current (50-60%) and a HIGH max current means you have a large torque reserve.
                  2. Don't crank up the Keep Current unless you like to spin your feet too fast and bog on hills. (OK if you are tuning for a constant-torque kind of feel, instead of speed limiting behavior. )
                6. On the throttle tab, set start current to 1% if you want the throttle control to be as precise as possible.
                  1. This lets you apply a small throttle setting if the PAS is going too fast, to slow it down via throttle! It feels like a dead spot if you don't know what's happening, and I don't think many riders appreciate this ability. But it's really cool if you are in, say PAS 4, and get to a tight spot without time to change down PAS levels. Just a little throttle to finesse your way through.
                  2. Expert feature, need to know your throttle pretty well to pull it off, smoothly.
                7. Have a brake sensor, if you don't, for times when #6.1 isn't working for you. Panic button.






                Those things should help you a lot, I think.

                Please DO read and follow along in the programming help file, to understand the variables. My above is what I remember, but does not relieve you of needing to learn what you are doing, it's just a guideline. And potentially has an error or two.... :)

                I have a setup called Relaxed PAS, in the big 'BBSHD programming thread', which you could try as a start if you want to, but you will ultimately like it better if you tune for your own style, gearing, and weight. Other users have similar files.

                I used to make all kinds of warnings about 'be careful, you could smoke your kit' when this was new to me, and I was new to the BBSHD. And, I'm sure you could, more easily, with such settings. But, they don't scare me like they used to, now that I have like 5k miles on my bike running it like this. I think it's pretty robust. I have the currents cranked way higher than stock, too, for great climbing torque in PAS with the lower cadences. I ride it reasonably, not like it's a rental, though. That's key. And I'm real skinny.

                Try a program change, ride it, see if the motor got very warm, iterate. Make it a habit to feel the motor if you are working it hard. Push the boundaries slowly, you should be fine. Maybe don't even increase current anyplace, at first. Only do that if you find the PAS to be anemic.

                I hope that helps, and makes sense.
                Last edited by JPLabs; 02-23-2018, 12:05 PM. Reason: Corrected reference from #3 to #6.1
                Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

                Comment


                  #10
                  JP thank you, that sounds exactly like what I'm looking for. I'll be sure and read up on what the settings accomplish and likely use some of your settings as a starting point. Steep learning curve but I'm having a blast. This stuff is addictive, I'm already contemplating making my moms old 3 wheel bike into an efatty hunting machine.

                  Comment


                    #11
                    JP just wanted to give an update, I tweaked the settings the way you mentioned and that was a big help. I still have a ways to go but we are headed in the right direction. When I get a chance I'll post my settings then ask a few more questions to get things smoothed out. I have a sturmey archer 3 speed in the works then I'll fine tune. But you were right on with the direction for me to go.

                    Comment


                    • JPLabs
                      JPLabs commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Sweet, and thanks a lot for your feedback. I probably spend an hour pulling info, looking at files and trying to make sense of it in a way I could explain it. Knowing you read it, tried it, and it's helping makes it worth the time, cool.

                      Ride on!.

                    #12
                    I have a very slow PAS 1. Current 4%, speed 40%. It is little more than a walking speed. I call it slow cruise. Speed low, cadence low. Amps used negligible. Keep current is always set at 100% so I can always have a true 100% throttle available. Adjust your current levels in Your PAS settings to reduce current if you wish. I have been thinking about my slow cruise. Read of a guy who burned up his motor walking up a hill. BBSO2 I think. Will a sustained very slow speed, low cadence put the motor at risk for over heating? Motor spinning slow (inefficient causing heat) Slow speed (very little air cooling effect)

                    Comment


                      #13
                      I am a hunter and know that sweating is the last thing you want. I have a 1000 watt bbshd but it is not a fat tire and would not be good for off road, but I know how I would ride it if it was fat tire for hunting. I would leave it in the lowest (slowest) gear so it would have max power for hill climbing and soft terrain. That also lets the motor turn at a high rpm. I would peddle a little to help the bike take off, then I would only pedal fast enough to make the PAS stay kicked in (very slow) , I would use the throttle for up hill or soft ground and only assist the motor if it needed my help. My bike will run 10 to 15 mph on paved roads low gear in PAS 1 with no help from me. You will need more pas for soft ground or up hill. To slow down I would stop pedaling or get off the throttle for a second or two. If you don't want to pedal at all you could just use the throttle once you get moving, but that gives full power and you would have to be on and off of it all the time to keep from going too fast. You can peddle very slowly and the pass will keep pulling you with no help from you.

                      Comment


                        #14
                        I just test rode my bike like I advised you I would ride it for off road hunting and found my lowest gear is not near low enough. Do you already have a 30 tooth chain ring on the motor? My chain ring is 46 tooth. I wish I had a 30 tooth to test ride.

                        Comment


                          #15
                          Originally posted by New Mariner View Post
                          I have a very slow PAS 1. Current 4%, speed 40%. It is little more than a walking speed. I call it slow cruise. Speed low, cadence low. Amps used negligible. Keep current is always set at 100% so I can always have a true 100% throttle available. Adjust your current levels in Your PAS settings to reduce current if you wish. I have been thinking about my slow cruise. Read of a guy who burned up his motor walking up a hill. BBSO2 I think. Will a sustained very slow speed, low cadence put the motor at risk for over heating? Motor spinning slow (inefficient causing heat) Slow speed (very little air cooling effect)
                          My keep current has been as low as 15%, and I still have full throttle available at all times. Either you are mistaken about Keep Current limiting throttle ( I think), or you are using a different mode that changes this behavior, which I'm not familiar with. Or new controllers work differently than old ones, in this respect. I don't mean to argue with you, only to learn and share info...

                          I set throttle power limit to PAS9, which for me is 100%, and Keep Current has no effect on the amps I can pull with throttle.
                          Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

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