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PAS Settings Help for Noob

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    #16
    Thanks for straightening me out. lol

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      #17
      bbs02 here and I thought the stock Luna program was too fast also... I loaded penrod's program which gave me back that bicycle feeling in Pass 1 over my full range of gears. 1st gear is about 8 mph and 7th ia about 15 mph and I am able to feel the pedals. I also went back to a 44t chainring.

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        #18
        Sieg25

        I also ran into a problem with low gear being no where near low enough, I was using the stock luna chain ring with my stock cassette giving me appx 8 (or 7) speeds I think. The high speed end was great, more than in needed, the low speed, high gear end sucked bad. I have pretty much given up on pedal assist when i'm moving about in the woods and just use throttle, with that stock setup I could start up a Medium incline and it would make it about half way and just bog down too bad.....

        So I went to a Sturmey Archer 3 speed rear hub, they only make up to a certain size (can't remember) on them that you can buy, then I put the mighty mini on the front. So I took one of their largest sprockets I could find, then took a larger sprocket off of a cassette and welded it on to the SA sprocket, in essence using the SA splined sprocket to mount the larger sprocket. Now we are talking business..... or so I thought. Yes it had torque, doing wheelie type of torque, so I put it to the test.

        To describe how it behaves I am going to relate it to what I know, I have a Side by Side ATV, have had 4 wheelers, 3 wheeler, jeeps and even an old Willis. All of these have the ability that bicycle does not have, power! Or the ability to be in low gear, at a slow speed, climb a hill and if it got steeper you just mashed the gas and had the power in reserve to continue climbing with little acceleration, the reserve power matched the increased load. The old Willis you could put it in granny and it would climb hills without touching the gas pedal.

        So for the bike test it had torque but not enough power, I mean crawl at 1.5 mph up the side of a slightly steep hill and not bog down, using the throttle seemed to be the best method but you were only a mere second away from this thing zooming out from under you and you ending up on your back. It appears this motor has to spin, by that i mean i have no doubt this thing would zoom up a medium hill at 6 plus mph, but a rock crawler it is not. To me, yes it has torque when you punch it, but power it does not have. On the hills you can make it up, you start out with 1/4 throttle and by the time you are near the top, you are full throttle and holding your breath that it doesn't flip you. I am not talking scary steep here either, I have seen steeper hills on our interstate system.

        So in afterthought you could likely make a rear sprocket that had enough teeth that put you into the middle of the power range on this electric motor and it would likely perform better or not.....however I am no mechanical engineer but I do now seem to remember something in college about small electric motors having low speed power limitations that a mechanical internal combustion engine doesn't have. Therefore I am beginning to realize that this bike is never going to perform like an ATV and there will be times when I just have to get off and push to keep from killing myself.

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          #19
          Also an update on the Sturmey Archer, the main reason for moving from a cassette to the SA was to get a better chainline, plus we were having problems with grass and debris snapping off derailers. The SA did both, however since its a 3 speed with roughly a 0.7 ratio in first, a 1 to 1 ratio in second, and a 1.3 ratio in third you are really limiting yourself on range of speed. Those ratios were likely great for pedaling, but with an electric motor they are severely limiting. So I am 50% satisfied after moving to the SA and looking at other alternatives now.

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            #20
            Originally posted by Alaska_av8r View Post
            Sieg25

            I also ran into a problem with low gear being no where near low enough, I was using the stock luna chain ring with my stock cassette giving me appx 8 (or 7) speeds I think. The high speed end was great, more than in needed, the low speed, high gear end sucked bad. I have pretty much given up on pedal assist when i'm moving about in the woods and just use throttle, with that stock setup I could start up a Medium incline and it would make it about half way and just bog down too bad.....

            So I went to a Sturmey Archer 3 speed rear hub, they only make up to a certain size (can't remember) on them that you can buy, then I put the mighty mini on the front. So I took one of their largest sprockets I could find, then took a larger sprocket off of a cassette and welded it on to the SA sprocket, in essence using the SA splined sprocket to mount the larger sprocket. Now we are talking business..... or so I thought. Yes it had torque, doing wheelie type of torque, so I put it to the test.

            To describe how it behaves I am going to relate it to what I know, I have a Side by Side ATV, have had 4 wheelers, 3 wheeler, jeeps and even an old Willis. All of these have the ability that bicycle does not have, power! Or the ability to be in low gear, at a slow speed, climb a hill and if it got steeper you just mashed the gas and had the power in reserve to continue climbing with little acceleration, the reserve power matched the increased load. The old Willis you could put it in granny and it would climb hills without touching the gas pedal.

            So for the bike test it had torque but not enough power, I mean crawl at 1.5 mph up the side of a slightly steep hill and not bog down, using the throttle seemed to be the best method but you were only a mere second away from this thing zooming out from under you and you ending up on your back. It appears this motor has to spin, by that i mean i have no doubt this thing would zoom up a medium hill at 6 plus mph, but a rock crawler it is not. To me, yes it has torque when you punch it, but power it does not have. On the hills you can make it up, you start out with 1/4 throttle and by the time you are near the top, you are full throttle and holding your breath that it doesn't flip you. I am not talking scary steep here either, I have seen steeper hills on our interstate system.

            So in afterthought you could likely make a rear sprocket that had enough teeth that put you into the middle of the power range on this electric motor and it would likely perform better or not.....however I am no mechanical engineer but I do now seem to remember something in college about small electric motors having low speed power limitations that a mechanical internal combustion engine doesn't have. Therefore I am beginning to realize that this bike is never going to perform like an ATV and there will be times when I just have to get off and push to keep from killing myself.
            This is a very interesting observation, and I know exactly what you mean. I've had the same. I can climb hills better in low gear, high motor RPM, by using PAS, as long as it's in the right gear/level for that hill. I simply cannot control the throttle as well as the computer can, under ideal conditions for a difficult climb. PAS, with the right (enough) amps for the conditions, is almost like traction control and wheelie prevention, automatically.

            So, here is a suggestion which I think might be good for your situation: Try setting throttle mode to SPEED instead of CURRENT control. Then, you command the wheel speed, instead of the torque. Hold throttle steady for low speed, and the controller will manage current for you. I think you might like that better. It should be much more "tractor like", as is PAS. I've not tried it, actually, in such usage, so please let me know what you think, if you do so.
            Last edited by JPLabs; 09-17-2018, 03:51 PM.
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