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Got my project up and running, now I'm messing around with programs...

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    Got my project up and running, now I'm messing around with programs...

    I gotta say, I don't much care for the way the stock settings tend to run away on me, even in PAS 1. I have yet to try a few of the different profiles, but I fooled around a little, necessitating a restore, and that changed my display from PAS 1 thru 5 to PAS 0 thru 5... not sure it that was supposed to happen? Anyhow, it seems like the biggest problem with programming this thing is the lack of a torque sensor. Why not? Seems like that would make life a lot easier when programming this thing...

    #2
    Originally posted by oddball View Post
    I gotta say, I don't much care for the way the stock settings tend to run away on me, even in PAS 1. I have yet to try a few of the different profiles, but I fooled around a little, necessitating a restore, and that changed my display from PAS 1 thru 5 to PAS 0 thru 5... not sure it that was supposed to happen? Anyhow, it seems like the biggest problem with programming this thing is the lack of a torque sensor. Why not? Seems like that would make life a lot easier when programming this thing...
    Well I’m just beginning also so I don’t have any of the answers, but I would rather have PAS 0-5 than 1-5. In PAS 0 you can pedal and use your throttle to assist as you see fit. So far that’s the way I like using it the best. Until I figure out how to tune the controller for the PAS to work properly with me and my riding style I’m just going to keep it in 0. I just wish it would automatically turn on in PAS 0.

    Comment


    • AZguy
      AZguy commented
      Editing a comment
      Just set PAS1 with your PAS0 parameters and then it will be there when you turn it on...

    #3
    I can't for the life of me figure out why a torque sensor would make programming easier... it'd just be a different parameter set...

    I have no use for a torque sensor. I want how hard I pedal to be independent of motor power and speed....

    There are times I'm going fast and hard and just want to pedal enough to keep it going like that and there are times I'm going slow at a low PAS and want to push harder while riding... and everything else.... For me it's pretty much independent... I don't really understand the draw of a torque sensor. I rode a bike with one and it just left me scratching my head thinking why would anyone actually want that when you can have cadence sensing instead....

    Different strokes...

    Comment


    • oddball
      oddball commented
      Editing a comment
      I don't know, I haven't fooled around much with it yet, but it seems to me that I'd like the motor to push harder the harder I do. If I'm on a flat maintaining a constant speed, the sensor would know that I'm not exerting much effort, and neither would the motor, no more running away on me... if I come to a hill, no need to change a PAS setting, the sensor would feel the increased effort in my pedaling and turn up the heat automatically... PAS settings could be reserved for specifying the level of heat...
      I dunno, like I said, I'm pretty new...

    • AZguy
      AZguy commented
      Editing a comment
      Gotcha - I don't mean to sound harsh - there are plenty of folks that prefer torque sensors and I've got my own particular physical issues that present a different view.

      I do think that once you get the PAS setup properly for you and your bike that you may find it's a fairly moot point. Sometimes I see some really poorly setup PAS (I have a manufactured e-bike like this and it's argh every time I get on it now) and it gets people thinking of how to use throttles and sensors to attempt to fix something that maybe better addressed in the controller - if you can get to it like the BBS's and cyclones.

      It's like the PAS-override flaw in these later BBS's. With a poorly setup PAS it would be a *major* problem and I would almost certainly be extremely frustrated by the flaw but it doesn't bother me much since I just use the PAS all the time (it's so sweetly setup now =] ) and it is *very* seldom I'm thinking I need throttle-override. OTOH I would definitely prefer it to be without the flaw even with my well tuned PAS (not that there isn't room for polish) but the issue goes away.

      I guess one of the things that confused me in the original post was that somehow a torque sensor would lead to it being easier to setup the controller and I don't follow that line of thinking since it's likely _more_ work to tune a torque sensor based controller... Admittedly, I have no idea...

      I've not ridden a bike with a torque sensor. I recently became acquainted with a LBS chain owner - we enjoy a cold barley pop or two at a local pub (yesterday I got his perspective on chain maintenance - it was a two beer discussion ;-} ). He gave me an invite to take their manufactured ebikes out for spins so I should get some time on one before long. Even though it's difficult to see for my type of bike and riding that a torque sensor wouldn't be worse but I'm open minded and I don't know. I suspect they are more appropriate for lower powered bikes. Like mentioned, me - I just want to pedal as easy or hard as I like and let the PAS do the rest...

    #4
    AZguy thanks for that suggestion!

    Is there a way on this forum to quote the person who has quoted you? I use a lot of forums and I’ve never seen one like this.

    Comment


    • AZguy
      AZguy commented
      Editing a comment
      Not so much with comments aside from cut and paste - no worries with posts though.

      Funny thing about PAS levels is that we get set in our ways how 0 should be throttle only (usually 1/1) and 9 should be what the throttle is set to for speed and power limits (usually 100/100). I put the throttle on 0 since I never use throttle only and with these newer BBS's the PAS overrides the throttle making that setup far less useful anyway which gave me a smooth 1-9 for my PAS which ends up with both 0 and 9 *not* set to 100/100 (or 1/1, 0/0...).

      Again - different strokes but it's good to sometimes think beyond the ruts we settle into =]

    #5
    Not sure what motor setup you are running, but if it is a BBS## the level settings are really “speed” settings, not simply power. They provide assist up to a certain speed based on all the other settings before cutting out. As such, it provides more power at lower cadence per the speed based level setting. This generally adds to the efficiency of the ride once up o speed. I generally use only 50-150 watts when pedaling at speed.

    My personal experience with torque sensors is that there is very little difference in the amount of power they apply based on pedal push and “I” found myself constantly having to change the power level on them when faced with an obstacle like a hill or head wind. The speed based BBS## applies the extra power automatically when you start slowing down because of the obstacle. I like that!

    With that said, I’m told there are vast differences between torque sensors and if you have your foot putting pressure on the pedal when you turn them on, that screws their function up.
    Last edited by Rider; 02-28-2018, 05:42 AM.
    1st Build - Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH (3K+ miles): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
    2nd Build - Electra Lux Alloy Cruiser 5spd IGH 29+ (SOLD) https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...iser-3-project
    3rd Build - Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
    4th Build - Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build

    Comment


      #6
      One more thing. The cadence of the BBS02 is more human compatible than the cadence of the BBSHD. Something to consider if you like to pedal.
      1st Build - Soma B-Side Belt Drive 3spd IGH (3K+ miles): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...v-custom-build
      2nd Build - Electra Lux Alloy Cruiser 5spd IGH 29+ (SOLD) https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...iser-3-project
      3rd Build - Niner Jet 9: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...lectric-assist
      4th Build - Surly ECR 5spd IGH 29+: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...id-drive-build

      Comment


      • oddball
        oddball commented
        Editing a comment
        I couldn't go the BBS02 route, I motorized a fatbike... Seems like I'm going to have to try AZ guy's program out, I think he may have something there that is close to what I'm looking for. Not knowing anything about torque sensors, I thought it'd be the obvious solution, but of course if it were, everyone would be using them...

      #7
      I couldn't go the BBS02 route, I motorized a fatbike..
      Why is that? I have a BBS02 on my Fat Bike.

      Comment


      • oddball
        oddball commented
        Editing a comment
        120 mm bottom bracket shell...

      • Rider
        Rider commented
        Editing a comment
        I thought there was someone out there making adapters for BBS02 motors for all larger BB's?

      #8
      Originally posted by Rider View Post
      Not sure what motor setup you are running, but if it is a BBS## the level settings are really “speed” settings, not simply power....
      If running in current limited (vs.voltage limited) then you are simply running a given power. This is the PAS settings I just put in a buddies recent build:

      Click image for larger version  Name:	pas.png Views:	1 Size:	13.8 KB ID:	59526

      With speed limited to 100% and as you pointed out 100% speed is superhuman cadence (I set mine to something much less somewhere around 70%) so while pedaling this setup is in constant power (aside from factoring in battery voltage) 100% of the time...

      Comment


      • oddball
        oddball commented
        Editing a comment
        I'll bet the geometric addition of power feels pretty smooth... that's how our bodies tend to work... I remember my stereo days, when you needed 10x more power to sound twice as loud...

      #9
      Very. Every two steps roughly doubles the power, every step increases about 40% over the last. It's very natural and intuitive and I don't pay anywhere near as much attention to the PAS indicator as I used to.

      Here's a spreadsheet calculator to work out the steps based on your setup/preferences if you'd like to fiddle: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...amming?p=51425

      Comment


      • oddball
        oddball commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks for the resource!
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