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HOW TO: Throttle only without cutting PAS wire

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    #16
    Throttle mode is current

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      #17
      Originally posted by AZguy View Post
      Throttle mode is current
      Thanks . 1%, check. Current mode, check. And multiple others confirm it works, and your bikes do, that's all I needed. Now, I'm convinced it's a valid workaround! :)

      I must have done something wrong, or have a unique issue. I'll need to try again.

      One thing I dealt with was the 4 PAS wires had been cut in shipping, the controller shipped by itself and the edge of the casting chopped the wires. So we soldered that back together. One broke in another place during install and I was intermittent, causing odd behavior, it's fixed again. So, might be another problem, there.

      I'll post back if I reinstall the controller and still can't get it right, but until then, don't want to waste your time.

      Thanks again for all the help.

      I'm interested in your version of circuit development. I do have a couple newer spare controllers that will probably have PAS dominance, which I may want to mod. I've watched the bigger ES discussion about that. Neat.
      Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

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        #18
        FWIW: This is what I ended up with.
        Attached Files

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          #19
          Originally posted by dn9 View Post
          Hello


          I have been messing around with the programming options since I'm developing a small custom circuit board to replace the display with a small micro controller + bluetooth (ESP32) + an app for android phones.

          The goal is to have a "road legal" mode which the bike automatically starts up in and can only be changed by application on the phone.

          Two modes are planned:

          * PAS only (throttle not legal, only use for walk with bike option(6km/h max))
          * Throttle only (PAS disabled)

          PAS only will be achived by cutting the throttle signal with transistor from custom board.


          So the problem is that I got one of the new BBSHD controller which cuts power to the current level when pedaling if PAS is activated.


          But I belive I have found a way to disable PAS by just changing the programming but as I have not mounted the motor on my bike yet I can not 100% confirm.
          I would be glad if anyone would try and confirm it works as intended on the new problematic BBSHD controller. (It behaved as intended when cranking the arms manually on my test bed)


          So this what I have done:

          1. Set Assist 0: current limit=0 speed limit=0
          2. Set Assist 9: current limit=100 speed limit=100 (or lower if you don't accedentaly want to blow up your controller)
          3. Set throttle mode to: Current
          4. Set designated assist level on pedal assist page to: 0
          5. Set designated assist level on throttle page to: 9

          Edit:
          Accoding to AZguy below it seems to be possible to have multiple levels of thottle by setting current limits on assist 1 - 9 and setting designated
          assist to "by displays command" on throttle page.



          Program and try out. On my BBSHD the PAS is completly ignored now, only throttle can be used.

          Anyone willing to try and confirm?


          Maybe this has been posted before but if so I was unable to find it...



          I have one of the new ones as well. Tried the settings for throttle only, Ass 0 current 0 Sp 0. No throttle in PAS 0 throttle in PAS levels. Double checked settings. Programmed againn. No throttle in PAS 0. Or is there only supposed to be throttle on other PAS levels. Hate the new controller Throttle not smooth and linear as well.

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            #20
            Originally posted by New Mariner View Post

            I have one of the new ones as well. Tried the settings for throttle only, Ass 0 current 0 Sp 0. No throttle in PAS 0 throttle in PAS levels. Double checked settings. Programmed againn. No throttle in PAS 0. Or is there only supposed to be throttle on other PAS levels. Hate the new controller Throttle not smooth and linear as well.
            Should only have throttle in PAS 1,2,3, etc. Consider PAS 0 as neutral.

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              #21
              Thanks i get it now. I was thinking you get throttle in PAS 0 as with previous HD. Throttle still was not as smooth as previous HD, but I had a lot of low current and slow start programmed previously. maybe that was part of it. Put new HD on FS mtb and programmed for not as soft of start on throttle or PAS. Will try some older settings in these areas.. With AZ guy settings, there is smooth throttle up to the maximum speed that is set?

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                #22
                Very, very smooth, almost unreal

                Even in first with the silly low gearing I have (46t first gear cog) it's so smooth I can just take off as slow (or fast =] ) as I like. There's absolutely no abruptness in any gear at any speed.

                I'll get around to posting the rest of the settings since they clearly make a difference. I think the most important is the start current though and that's at 1%. The other two I setup are the same as mine (I just cloned my settings) with very happy users. One of the guys greatest concern about going to the BBSHD as when he had test ridden other mid-drives he found starting off from a stop, especially in low gears, very abrupt. In fact, he wouldn't consider a mid-drive because of this until I let him ride mine with the throttle setup this way and then he immediately went and got his.

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                  #23
                  I just made BBSxx .el profile file an approved filetype for the forum.

                  You can now upload the profile directly, just click the upload attachments icon.

                  Hopefully that makes it easier to share how this is done.

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                    #24
                    Well here it is but many caveats and it reminds me of why I hesitate to post an .el - there are settings that are particular to my build, LVC, max A, wheel size, etc.... so I don't recommend just pouring it in unless your build is very similar to mine - BBSHD, 30A / 48V battery, 4.7 x 26" tires, etc.... and even then I wouldn't recommend doing it blindly. And I have no idea whether the pedal assist page settings mean a thing or where they came from - they are not the ones I use when I have PAS working...
                    Attached Files

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                      #25
                      Reading on ES there is a Domino throttle solution as well. The Domino is wired into the PAS connector. When the throttle is used PAS is turned off. Not seeing PAS the controller allows pedaling with the throttle. Throttle available in PAS 0. Everything should be like the old HD

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                        #26
                        I have integrated a similar solution into a controller and expect to get it on a bike in a couple of weeks. Stay tuned - I'll make a thread once that's been done.

                        The thing about the programming solution is that it is duck soup easy, just programming and I know plenty of folks that really don't care about losing PAS operation (I do!). Modifying the controller with the circuitry isn't all that hard but it's nowhere near as easy as a programming only solution and if someone doesn't care about PAS operation, it's the clear choice.


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                          #27
                          I don't care about PAS on the bike I am using the motor on. I am thinking about all the people who have bought BBSHD and BBSO2 since early 2017 or whenever in 2017 they came out. That is a lot of motors and a lot of them want PAS. Most won't want to do a controller mod. I personally hate messing with my controller. PIA. I don't have the patience for it. But I will do it when it is necessary. If the Throttle mod is easier and could be documented on video, a whole lot of shops, builders, and some owners would be very appreciate. Not a cheap solution, but you gain IP67 waterproofed throttle in the process.

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                            #28
                            Found this on youtube, but I am unauthorized to view. It is a link to something on this site.
                            Again with that random crap won't let me view. If someone will check it out and share the info if it is worth it. https://www.youtube.com/redirect?red...46%23post53046
                            Last edited by New Mariner; 2 days ago.

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                              #29
                              The thread that linked to was exploring the issue when it first arose after Bafang first began shipping these units to dealers. Luna Support was using it as a place to speak openly about the issue and provide the best updates we were given from the shop, which was ultimately info that came from discussions with Bafang and testing etc.

                              But you know, we are not Bafang and some people got really hostile about that fact, especially when it came to inconsistency. For a while some batches had the flaw and some did not. Now it seems Bafang are at least consistent in having the issue. Not sure if that's progress but at least folks know what to expect.

                              After several pages of no resolution from any dealers it became very toxic, and was ultimately deleted.

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                                #30
                                So what is the Domino throttle solution and is there a link to the specifics?

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                                • AZguy
                                  AZguy commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  My understanding is that the domino throttle has a switch that engages once you crack the throttle. This can be run to the controller and connected to the pedal sense wire to force throttle operation.

                                  Aside from having to penetrate the controller with the throttle switch signal, I've read these particular throttles are not terribly reliable - but take it with the requisite boulder of hearsay...

                                  If you google domino throttle you should be able to find it.
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