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HOW TO: Throttle only without cutting PAS wire

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  • AZguy
    replied
    This has been discussed ad nauseam over there. The gray wire in the pedal cadence sensor gets wired to the throttle switch so that when the throttle is cracked it pulls it to ground preventing the signal from disabling the throttle. The various little circuits do the same thing as the switch in the throttle. With the domino throttle you are stuck using that throttle *and* running an external wire *and* figuring out how to get it in the controller. With the circuits any throttle will work. The domino throttle has a rumored (I have zero to substantiate this) reliability issues but whether that is true or not the other three cons are true.

    After digging into a couple of controllers I would say that if going with the circuit vs. the domino throttle, it definitely belongs inside the controller so as has been pointed out over there many times, the greatest challenge is getting at the throttle signal.

    Some folks with the circuits prefer to get it from external to the controller, run a wire down to the controller and drill a hole to get it in so they don't have to dig out potting. I sort of get this, my first dig into it was a mess and I dug way more potting then necessary (it was a bad controller anyway though) but after digging out another I think it's the better approach and keeps the entire solution in the controller. You only have to dig the very little bit out where the wires come in - I used a spudger and it took at most a couple of minutes. Once the grommet is clear you can push the wires into it and lift the grommet out and get access to the throttle wire there. By pushing some of the cable that goes to the throttle into the grommet an inch or so you can get some extra wire to work with which is one reason why I like this approach.

    My little circuit fit nicely into the areas dug out of the potting next to the grommet and then I just sealed everything back up with electronic safe RTV. Very clean solution and the whole process of getting the throttle signal took twenty minutes or so.

    The modified controller is now a seamless standalone solution that is sealed with no extra drilling or external wires. The circuit I built has a male and female pedal sense connector so that end was a silly simple plug-in.

    The picture I posted is pre-RTV.


    As always, YMMV

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  • New Mariner
    replied
    Originally posted by Fred View Post
    So what is the Domino throttle solution and is there a link to the specifics?
    It is located in this thread. Not totally clear to me. JP labs may be able clue us in on what we would need to do. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi...p?f=28&t=93977

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  • New Mariner
    replied
    More controller surgery, just not as much.

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  • AZguy
    commented on 's reply
    My understanding is that the domino throttle has a switch that engages once you crack the throttle. This can be run to the controller and connected to the pedal sense wire to force throttle operation.

    Aside from having to penetrate the controller with the throttle switch signal, I've read these particular throttles are not terribly reliable - but take it with the requisite boulder of hearsay...

    If you google domino throttle you should be able to find it.

  • Fred
    replied
    So what is the Domino throttle solution and is there a link to the specifics?

    Leave a comment:


  • paxtana
    replied
    The thread that linked to was exploring the issue when it first arose after Bafang first began shipping these units to dealers. Luna Support was using it as a place to speak openly about the issue and provide the best updates we were given from the shop, which was ultimately info that came from discussions with Bafang and testing etc.

    But you know, we are not Bafang and some people got really hostile about that fact, especially when it came to inconsistency. For a while some batches had the flaw and some did not. Now it seems Bafang are at least consistent in having the issue. Not sure if that's progress but at least folks know what to expect.

    After several pages of no resolution from any dealers it became very toxic, and was ultimately deleted.

    Leave a comment:


  • New Mariner
    replied
    Found this on youtube, but I am unauthorized to view. It is a link to something on this site.
    Again with that random crap won't let me view. If someone will check it out and share the info if it is worth it. https://www.youtube.com/redirect?red...46%23post53046
    Last edited by New Mariner; 11-13-2018, 05:59 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • New Mariner
    replied
    I don't care about PAS on the bike I am using the motor on. I am thinking about all the people who have bought BBSHD and BBSO2 since early 2017 or whenever in 2017 they came out. That is a lot of motors and a lot of them want PAS. Most won't want to do a controller mod. I personally hate messing with my controller. PIA. I don't have the patience for it. But I will do it when it is necessary. If the Throttle mod is easier and could be documented on video, a whole lot of shops, builders, and some owners would be very appreciate. Not a cheap solution, but you gain IP67 waterproofed throttle in the process.

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  • AZguy
    replied
    have integrated a similar solution into a controller and expect to get it on a bike in a couple of weeks. Stay tuned - I'll make a thread once that's been done.

    The thing about the programming solution is that it is duck soup easy, just programming and I know plenty of folks that really don't care about losing PAS operation (I do!). Modifying the controller with the circuitry isn't all that hard but it's nowhere near as easy as a programming only solution and if someone doesn't care about PAS operation, it's the clear choice.

    Last edited by AZguy; 11-20-2018, 02:45 PM.

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  • New Mariner
    replied
    Reading on ES there is a Domino throttle solution as well. The Domino is wired into the PAS connector. When the throttle is used PAS is turned off. Not seeing PAS the controller allows pedaling with the throttle. Throttle available in PAS 0. Everything should be like the old HD

    Leave a comment:


  • AZguy
    replied
    Well here it is but many caveats and it reminds me of why I hesitate to post an .el - there are settings that are particular to my build, LVC, max A, wheel size, etc.... so I don't recommend just pouring it in unless your build is very similar to mine - BBSHD, 30A / 48V battery, 4.7 x 26" tires, etc.... and even then I wouldn't recommend doing it blindly. And I have no idea whether the pedal assist page settings mean a thing or where they came from - they are not the ones I use when I have PAS working...
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • paxtana
    replied
    I just made BBSxx .el profile file an approved filetype for the forum.

    You can now upload the profile directly, just click the upload attachments icon.

    Hopefully that makes it easier to share how this is done.

    Leave a comment:


  • AZguy
    replied
    Very, very smooth, almost unreal

    Even in first with the silly low gearing I have (46t first gear cog) it's so smooth I can just take off as slow (or fast =] ) as I like. There's absolutely no abruptness in any gear at any speed.

    I'll get around to posting the rest of the settings since they clearly make a difference. I think the most important is the start current though and that's at 1%. The other two I setup are the same as mine (I just cloned my settings) with very happy users. One of the guys greatest concern about going to the BBSHD as when he had test ridden other mid-drives he found starting off from a stop, especially in low gears, very abrupt. In fact, he wouldn't consider a mid-drive because of this until I let him ride mine with the throttle setup this way and then he immediately went and got his.

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  • New Mariner
    replied
    Thanks i get it now. I was thinking you get throttle in PAS 0 as with previous HD. Throttle still was not as smooth as previous HD, but I had a lot of low current and slow start programmed previously. maybe that was part of it. Put new HD on FS mtb and programmed for not as soft of start on throttle or PAS. Will try some older settings in these areas.. With AZ guy settings, there is smooth throttle up to the maximum speed that is set?

    Leave a comment:


  • Steve
    replied
    Originally posted by New Mariner View Post

    I have one of the new ones as well. Tried the settings for throttle only, Ass 0 current 0 Sp 0. No throttle in PAS 0 throttle in PAS levels. Double checked settings. Programmed againn. No throttle in PAS 0. Or is there only supposed to be throttle on other PAS levels. Hate the new controller Throttle not smooth and linear as well.
    Should only have throttle in PAS 1,2,3, etc. Consider PAS 0 as neutral.

    Leave a comment:

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