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HOW TO: Throttle only without cutting PAS wire

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  • dn9
    started a topic HOW TO: Throttle only without cutting PAS wire

    HOW TO: Throttle only without cutting PAS wire

    Hello


    I have been messing around with the programming options since I'm developing a small custom circuit board to replace the display with a small micro controller + bluetooth (ESP32) + an app for android phones.

    The goal is to have a "road legal" mode which the bike automatically starts up in and can only be changed by application on the phone.

    Two modes are planned:

    * PAS only (throttle not legal, only use for walk with bike option(6km/h max))
    * Throttle only (PAS disabled)

    PAS only will be achived by cutting the throttle signal with transistor from custom board.


    So the problem is that I got one of the new BBSHD controller which cuts power to the current level when pedaling if PAS is activated.


    But I belive I have found a way to disable PAS by just changing the programming but as I have not mounted the motor on my bike yet I can not 100% confirm.
    I would be glad if anyone would try and confirm it works as intended on the new problematic BBSHD controller. (It behaved as intended when cranking the arms manually on my test bed)


    So this what I have done:

    1. Set Assist 0: current limit=0 speed limit=0
    2. Set Assist 9: current limit=100 speed limit=100 (or lower if you don't accedentaly want to blow up your controller)
    3. Set throttle mode to: Current
    4. Set designated assist level on pedal assist page to: 0
    5. Set designated assist level on throttle page to: 9

    Edit:
    Accoding to AZguy below it seems to be possible to have multiple levels of thottle by setting current limits on assist 1 - 9 and setting designated
    assist to "by displays command" on throttle page.



    Program and try out. On my BBSHD the PAS is completly ignored now, only throttle can be used.

    Anyone willing to try and confirm?


    Maybe this has been posted before but if so I was unable to find it...




    Last edited by dn9; 04-30-2018, 09:30 AM.

  • paxtana
    replied
    I'll need to check with Eric and Ashley but yes I think we can do that.

    Leave a comment:


  • JPLabs
    replied
    Thanks for clearly stating this. Referencing it on the product pages might be reassuring to buyers, and might help buyers understand this huge benefit of buying a Luna version.....hint.

    Leave a comment:


  • paxtana
    replied
    Actually Luna fixed throttle priority with a new custom firmware months ago, took a long time but we finally figured it out and it applies to both new bbsxx and replacement controllers sold by the company.

    Probably there are many other companies selling them that still have the issue, but if you buy from Luna that criticism is not really relevant.

    Anyway I am glad you found this workaround useful.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jmax
    replied
    thank you, thank you, thank you! Replacement controller on three year old BBSHD no longer allowed throttle usage, unsafe to ride tandem.
    Implementing this post fixed it.
    We never use PAS. Throttle assist for hills only.

    What a shame that LUNA and others continue to sell the controllers without warning or advising customers they need to implement this or other fixes!
    We purchased the replacement controller expecting the SAME part and function as before, and in fact were advised by two resellers on whether to buy controller type A or B.
    Not a peep about this malfunction in operability.

    Assist level zero: 0,0
    Assist levels one through eight: 0,0
    Assist level nine: 100,100
    designated pedal assist level- zero
    designated throttle assist level- nine
    on startup have to toggle assist level to nine.
    When dismounting or crossing streets toggle assist level to eight to disable motor for safety.

    (We did try Assist zero at 100,100 and other assist levels 0, throttle assist level zero, but did not work correctly.)

    ----------------------------------------------
    original post:
    HOW TO: Throttle only without cutting PAS wire
    04-20-2018, 08:12 AM


    Hello
    So the problem is that I got one of the new BBSHD controller which cuts power to the current level when pedaling if PAS is activated.
    1. Set Assist 0: current limit=0 speed limit=0
    2. Set Assist 9: current limit=100 speed limit=100 (or lower if you don't accedentaly want to blow up your controller)
    3. Set throttle mode to: Current
    4. Set designated assist level on pedal assist page to: 0
    5. Set designated assist level on throttle page to: 9



    Leave a comment:


  • Zycklefrye
    commented on 's reply
    I just confirmed it. Under 'Pedal Assist'---Set 'Pedal Sensor Type' to 'None'.
    Set 'Designated Assist Level' to '0'.


    Under 'Throttle Handle' set 'Designated Assist Level' to 'By Display's Command'.

    That kills PAS and gives you throttle only. Somehow 'Current Limit' and 'Speed Limit' STILL WORK for the throttle control. I have absolutely no PAS in any assist levels, but the settings for each assist level controls how much throttle is available. Just to start with, I set my assist levels at 0=25, 1=50, 2=75, and 3=100. Full throttle is only 25% of potential full throttle in assist level 0, 50% of potential full throttle in assist level 2, etc..

  • Zycklefrye
    commented on 's reply
    I'm just now setting up my brand new BBSHD, and I've been having the same motor cut-out problems. I've spent the last couple'a hours switching back and forth between the different suggestions in this forum, and it's still doin' it. I haven't even ridden it yet. I just have the drive wheel propped up so I can run it through the different modes without doing it in traffic.
    As I was takin' a smoke break from the frustrations of an $800 motor cutting out on me before I can even ride it, I noticed there's a setting this forum hasn't discussed as a potential fix. I haven't tried it yet, but one of the options in the drop down menu under 'Pedal Sensor Type' is 'None'.
    Seems to me that if it thinks there's no pedal sensor, then it wouldn't even try to run PAS. Add a '0' in 'Designated Assist Level' and you'd think it would bypass the PAS circuitry.

  • New Mariner
    replied
    Low start current is what i meant. Sorry for confusion.

    Leave a comment:


  • AZguy
    commented on 's reply
    I use 100% no problem =]

    With current control and the start current at 1% it's silly smooth

    I only limit it in 1 and 2 (not 3!) because I have a medical condition in my wrist that tends to overuse the throttle =]

  • JPLabs
    commented on 's reply
    By 'Low Current', what do you mean, exactly, please?

    Do you mean you can't use 100% max power and still have smooth response? Or, just that it's smoother, the less total power you have in the settings. The latter, I think...confirming.

  • New Mariner
    replied
    Just tried my old throttle settings with this No PAS program. The key is low current and low slow start settings. Could be just low current as well. Have my smooth linear throttle back.

    Leave a comment:


  • AZguy
    commented on 's reply
    Either way they'll work... normally open would be best and only take one wire instead of two for n.c.

  • JPLabs
    commented on 's reply
    OK, I thought I better double check about the switch state. I read about Domino and others, and saw reference to switches normally open and normally closed. It looks like the Domino is normally open. Maybe it's the Magura which was normally closed. I don't remember WHICH throttle was normally closed. But I guess it's not the Domino. Sorry.

    Here's the Domino link I found specifying: https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2014/03/...ino-vs-magura/

  • AZguy
    commented on 's reply
    Ahhh the switch opens when the throttle is cracked - I was thinking the opposite. As you point out that make is it just a bit trickier since it will require two wires, not just one.

    It's definitely the gray wire - the wires are [in order] red (+5V), black (gnd), gray, white

    Instead of soldering to the gray wire, I bought the connectors, they are very inexpensive... about $0.30 for the pair...
    Last edited by AZguy; 11-16-2018, 01:39 PM.

  • JPLabs
    commented on 's reply
    My understanding is that to use a switch which opens when throttle is above zero, like Domino, you use that switch to open and close the PAS signal wire. So, route that wire through the switch. When throttle is active, switch opens pas signal (disconnecting it) just as if you had cut the wire.

    This has been described as routing the PAS signal out to the switch, or routing the switch inside controller. Same thing. You just need to work with one wire in the controller, which is accessible. Grey wire I think, diagram is posted there. I have soldered on these wires for repair, they are pretty short but not too bad to work with. At least they accepted flux core solder nicely.
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