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HOW TO: Throttle only without cutting PAS wire

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  • dn9
    started a topic HOW TO: Throttle only without cutting PAS wire

    HOW TO: Throttle only without cutting PAS wire

    Hello


    I have been messing around with the programming options since I'm developing a small custom circuit board to replace the display with a small micro controller + bluetooth (ESP32) + an app for android phones.

    The goal is to have a "road legal" mode which the bike automatically starts up in and can only be changed by application on the phone.

    Two modes are planned:

    * PAS only (throttle not legal, only use for walk with bike option(6km/h max))
    * Throttle only (PAS disabled)

    PAS only will be achived by cutting the throttle signal with transistor from custom board.


    So the problem is that I got one of the new BBSHD controller which cuts power to the current level when pedaling if PAS is activated.


    But I belive I have found a way to disable PAS by just changing the programming but as I have not mounted the motor on my bike yet I can not 100% confirm.
    I would be glad if anyone would try and confirm it works as intended on the new problematic BBSHD controller. (It behaved as intended when cranking the arms manually on my test bed)


    So this what I have done:

    1. Set Assist 0: current limit=0 speed limit=0
    2. Set Assist 9: current limit=100 speed limit=100 (or lower if you don't accedentaly want to blow up your controller)
    3. Set throttle mode to: Current
    4. Set designated assist level on pedal assist page to: 0
    5. Set designated assist level on throttle page to: 9

    Edit:
    Accoding to AZguy below it seems to be possible to have multiple levels of thottle by setting current limits on assist 1 - 9 and setting designated
    assist to "by displays command" on throttle page.



    Program and try out. On my BBSHD the PAS is completly ignored now, only throttle can be used.

    Anyone willing to try and confirm?


    Maybe this has been posted before but if so I was unable to find it...




    Last edited by dn9; 04-30-2018, 09:30 AM.

  • Zycklefrye
    commented on 's reply
    I just confirmed it. Under 'Pedal Assist'---Set 'Pedal Sensor Type' to 'None'.
    Set 'Designated Assist Level' to '0'.


    Under 'Throttle Handle' set 'Designated Assist Level' to 'By Display's Command'.

    That kills PAS and gives you throttle only. Somehow 'Current Limit' and 'Speed Limit' STILL WORK for the throttle control. I have absolutely no PAS in any assist levels, but the settings for each assist level controls how much throttle is available. Just to start with, I set my assist levels at 0=25, 1=50, 2=75, and 3=100. Full throttle is only 25% of potential full throttle in assist level 0, 50% of potential full throttle in assist level 2, etc..

  • Zycklefrye
    commented on 's reply
    I'm just now setting up my brand new BBSHD, and I've been having the same motor cut-out problems. I've spent the last couple'a hours switching back and forth between the different suggestions in this forum, and it's still doin' it. I haven't even ridden it yet. I just have the drive wheel propped up so I can run it through the different modes without doing it in traffic.
    As I was takin' a smoke break from the frustrations of an $800 motor cutting out on me before I can even ride it, I noticed there's a setting this forum hasn't discussed as a potential fix. I haven't tried it yet, but one of the options in the drop down menu under 'Pedal Sensor Type' is 'None'.
    Seems to me that if it thinks there's no pedal sensor, then it wouldn't even try to run PAS. Add a '0' in 'Designated Assist Level' and you'd think it would bypass the PAS circuitry.

  • New Mariner
    replied
    Low start current is what i meant. Sorry for confusion.

    Leave a comment:


  • AZguy
    commented on 's reply
    I use 100% no problem =]

    With current control and the start current at 1% it's silly smooth

    I only limit it in 1 and 2 (not 3!) because I have a medical condition in my wrist that tends to overuse the throttle =]

  • JPLabs
    commented on 's reply
    By 'Low Current', what do you mean, exactly, please?

    Do you mean you can't use 100% max power and still have smooth response? Or, just that it's smoother, the less total power you have in the settings. The latter, I think...confirming.

  • New Mariner
    replied
    Just tried my old throttle settings with this No PAS program. The key is low current and low slow start settings. Could be just low current as well. Have my smooth linear throttle back.

    Leave a comment:


  • AZguy
    commented on 's reply
    Either way they'll work... normally open would be best and only take one wire instead of two for n.c.

  • JPLabs
    commented on 's reply
    OK, I thought I better double check about the switch state. I read about Domino and others, and saw reference to switches normally open and normally closed. It looks like the Domino is normally open. Maybe it's the Magura which was normally closed. I don't remember WHICH throttle was normally closed. But I guess it's not the Domino. Sorry.

    Here's the Domino link I found specifying: https://evmc2.wordpress.com/2014/03/...ino-vs-magura/

  • AZguy
    commented on 's reply
    Ahhh the switch opens when the throttle is cracked - I was thinking the opposite. As you point out that make is it just a bit trickier since it will require two wires, not just one.

    It's definitely the gray wire - the wires are [in order] red (+5V), black (gnd), gray, white

    Instead of soldering to the gray wire, I bought the connectors, they are very inexpensive... about $0.30 for the pair...
    Last edited by AZguy; 11-16-2018, 01:39 PM.

  • JPLabs
    commented on 's reply
    My understanding is that to use a switch which opens when throttle is above zero, like Domino, you use that switch to open and close the PAS signal wire. So, route that wire through the switch. When throttle is active, switch opens pas signal (disconnecting it) just as if you had cut the wire.

    This has been described as routing the PAS signal out to the switch, or routing the switch inside controller. Same thing. You just need to work with one wire in the controller, which is accessible. Grey wire I think, diagram is posted there. I have soldered on these wires for repair, they are pretty short but not too bad to work with. At least they accepted flux core solder nicely.

  • AZguy
    replied
    This has been discussed ad nauseam over there. The gray wire in the pedal cadence sensor gets wired to the throttle switch so that when the throttle is cracked it pulls it to ground preventing the signal from disabling the throttle. The various little circuits do the same thing as the switch in the throttle. With the domino throttle you are stuck using that throttle *and* running an external wire *and* figuring out how to get it in the controller. With the circuits any throttle will work. The domino throttle has a rumored (I have zero to substantiate this) reliability issues but whether that is true or not the other three cons are true.

    After digging into a couple of controllers I would say that if going with the circuit vs. the domino throttle, it definitely belongs inside the controller so as has been pointed out over there many times, the greatest challenge is getting at the throttle signal.

    Some folks with the circuits prefer to get it from external to the controller, run a wire down to the controller and drill a hole to get it in so they don't have to dig out potting. I sort of get this, my first dig into it was a mess and I dug way more potting then necessary (it was a bad controller anyway though) but after digging out another I think it's the better approach and keeps the entire solution in the controller. You only have to dig the very little bit out where the wires come in - I used a spudger and it took at most a couple of minutes. Once the grommet is clear you can push the wires into it and lift the grommet out and get access to the throttle wire there. By pushing some of the cable that goes to the throttle into the grommet an inch or so you can get some extra wire to work with which is one reason why I like this approach.

    My little circuit fit nicely into the areas dug out of the potting next to the grommet and then I just sealed everything back up with electronic safe RTV. Very clean solution and the whole process of getting the throttle signal took twenty minutes or so.

    The modified controller is now a seamless standalone solution that is sealed with no extra drilling or external wires. The circuit I built has a male and female pedal sense connector so that end was a silly simple plug-in.

    The picture I posted is pre-RTV.


    As always, YMMV

    Leave a comment:


  • New Mariner
    replied
    Originally posted by Fred View Post
    So what is the Domino throttle solution and is there a link to the specifics?
    It is located in this thread. Not totally clear to me. JP labs may be able clue us in on what we would need to do. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi...p?f=28&t=93977

    Leave a comment:


  • New Mariner
    replied
    More controller surgery, just not as much.

    Leave a comment:


  • AZguy
    commented on 's reply
    My understanding is that the domino throttle has a switch that engages once you crack the throttle. This can be run to the controller and connected to the pedal sense wire to force throttle operation.

    Aside from having to penetrate the controller with the throttle switch signal, I've read these particular throttles are not terribly reliable - but take it with the requisite boulder of hearsay...

    If you google domino throttle you should be able to find it.
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