"I'm in the Ghetto" Chinese BBSHD Build gone wrong.

[Gizmo350k]

Good day guys i bring to you the most eccentric and low budget BBSHD build known to man.
I'm using a kit that i am having difficulty programming, the pedal assist currently pushes more amps than the throttle but, I digress.

Goal of this build is to replace my taxi based commute with a capable ebike, I have a rather steep incline hill of 11-13 kilometers to climb daily. (2000ft)
Surprisingly, on this poorly put together build, i managed to get up the hill a few hours ago so i decided to start to log my progress.

Parts used:

• Flea market bbshd 68mm, 790 LED Control Panel (rudimentary basics sigh)
• https://lunacycle.com/american-style...o-bsa-adapter/ (for vintage american bicycles like what this Chinese model was modeled off of)
• https://lunacycle.com/luna-mighty-mi...shd-chainring/ to keep motor cool and spinning fast (which it did no problem, more on this later)
• https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SBR3FJS/ref=1 this keeps me aware of vehicles coming up on my backside and crushing me lol
• http://amazon.com/gp/product/B01N4AN...UTF8&psc=1 75% of this commute is unlit road, and there are gravel sections that are ALWAYS bad news, i have the scars to show for it lmao
• https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 The taximen on my route are the kind to have their radio blaring AND have headphones in on a call while cornering @ 50 mph.. smh

Build Goals.

• Complete proper mounting of the motor.
• Do something that i don't yet know to be possible about the chainline. (lmfaooo used IGH lmfaoooooo)
• Start shedding weight by switching bolts to titanium as Sunny C BMX build did.
• Build a better battery. (with better BMS)
• Get a better controller as recommended by the Captain. (Riding at 15 degrees C, and pushing maybe 14 amps , motor was not even lukewarm lmaooo)
• Do something about the wire routing, possibly cutting holes and placing a lot of them in the downtube... <.<;;
• Figure out how to get good power scaling on the 790 LED Display. (until get the one the Captain was using on that awesome controller
• Brakes. Good ones

Build Tasks (based on user input)

• Research Hub Brakes and see if it can work on my build/frame [x] completed, thanks Retro
• Research how difficult it would be to install IS disc brake mount on the chain/seat stay... [on hold]
• Locate Eggrider display. It seems cool, and much better than my LED 790 solution (however performance in heavy downpours of rain may be concerning) [pending]
• Adjust Mirrcyle Mirror to have a smaller footprint (as advised by RetroRockit) [completed, looking better already, will be doing road time to see how it hold up on my sm0l handlebar lmao]
• Look into getting some quality Maxxis Tires on this horrible gravel filled commute of mine [pending]
• Work out some fork math. (as advised by Mr. Retro) I was a bit concerned about the height of this fork, it seems my suspicions were correct..
  
  Environmental Note.
  Well, apparently my once peaceful community is not so peaceful anymore, just because my bicycle is motorized apparently I'm a big target for theft and being killed, or at least that's what the public is saying.
  These are the same people who saw me on a bicycle for the first time and said i was going to die from breaking my neck so - idk. This may affect the speed of the future build updates. We now return to our regularly scheduled program.
• Compare getting a new MTB Frame, 8 speed, with disc brake mounts with continuing to work with current frame [pending]
• Research Avid BB7. (I really keep hearing mixed opinions on this one. Would these when paired with metallic hold well on a 2000ft 13km descent?)
  [pending]
• Check out big cassettes on ebay. I had to do some iffy stuff to pull my current cassette apart, i hope whatever i find isnt nearly as difficult if i have to adjust the chainline (which most of us always do)
  [pending]
  
  In order for this frame to make sense with the 42t cassette, I would need a new rear hub that has both the cassette block and disk rotor mount, which is proving a bit challenging to find in the 36 spoke configuration, thus far without quick release. I'm not sure quick release is a good idea when tethered to such a motor... lmao
• Since averaging 5 km/hr is "not safe" i will have to save some money towards a BAC 800 and a 72v configuration as being shown by the Captain. just a p.s. to the environmental note, if at least theres folks in the bushes in the dark road waiting i should be able to zip away no problem... sigh

[Gizmo350k]

Where's the photos??

Here's the ongoing album lol

https://photos.app.goo.gl/rWDd7BJb5rNW7QWb8

[Retrorockit]

I use the Mirracell mirror w/o the cross bar. Mine just sticks up like a lollipop. Makes a narrower installation. Nice headlight, and I use the Airzounds horn too. I think you've got the details right.
I see 24" rear so I guess 20" front.? I had one when I was kid in a rough neighborhood. I like what I'm seeing! That's not quite the same as saying it looks good, but I still like it. If you go IGH i would get a hub brake Then you can get some 24x2.5" Maxxis Hookworms on it. 26" fork and 20" wheel how does it handle? Did you do the math, or just stick it together?

[Gizmo350k]

I use the Mirracell mirror w/o the cross bar. Mine just sticks up like a lollipop. Makes a narrower installation.

!!! I will try this - thank you @@

Nice headlight, and I use the Airzounds horn too. I think you've got the details right.
Yes majority of the road it unlit so I needed to be seen and heard as much as possible ;~;

I see 24" rear so I guess 20" front.?
The bicycle came with 2 ea 24" Kendas. I bought the "24 inch fork with disk mount brakes" from my local bike shop. the 26" version was EVEN taller than this! I had to take a hacksaw to it to cut away the excess threaded neck.

I had one when I was kid in a rough neighborhood. I like what I'm seeing!
Yes im only just learning how to ride a bicycle lmao so i went on youtube for lessons and they told me to make sure my feet can touch the ground so i bought this small frame out of fear.
This was on Dec. 3rd. lmao

That's not quite the same as saying it looks good, but I still like it.
Yes i know i know! I made sure to hide pics behind the link so it doesnt cause too much commotion @@
If you go IGH i would get a hub brake Then you can get some 24x2.5" Maxxis Hookworms on it.

Hub brakes? I need to do more reasearch I was planning on doing cable pull hydralics sigh

. 26" fork and 20" wheel how does it handle? Did you do the math, or just stick it together?

I just stack it together I'm at a crossroads now, do i get another cheap frame 26" that has disk brake mounts at the front and rear? Or do I continue working on this frame.

There frames here are very archaic and take a lot of beckoning to act right with an ebike getup lol

@_@ thanks for your input i am in need of guidance sigh

[xcnick]

I am sorry there is so much information out there saying to use a small chainring. I use them all the time but your problem, and most peoples, should be fixed with a new cassette.

Now you know what hill you must climb, try the gears you have until you find the one that is right. Then plug into Sheldon's gear ratio website. First enter the size of chanring (30), and then the rear cog you like. I bet it is about 28 coming in at 2.1 gear ratio or 27.8 gear inches. Then plug into the web page a 42 chainring and a 40 cog you will see 2.0 ratio or 27.2 gear inches. Ebay a mountain bike cassette 11-40 or 11-42 and buy a 42 chainring with the better chainline. (You have to have a long cage derailleur, check, but I think you do, and then insert a longer B screw so you can get over the 40 cog.)

If you buy a cassette 11-42 or more you can use the steel 46 it came with. (2.1 ratio)

There is a risk your derailleur won't go over a big cog, but a 30 chainring will for sure give a terrible chainline.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

[Retrorockit]

There are 2 types of hub brakes. Strumey Archer uses drum brakes, and Shimano uses a roller brake. It's hard to add a rear disc if the frame has no mount for it.
I wouldn't go hydraulic. Avid BB7 cable disc are up to a BBSHD, especially in the 180 or 200mm sizes. Metallic pads are a plus.
If you want to try another frame I would get a whole MTB with disc brakes and suspension fork already on it. 8 Speed is good.

[Gizmo350k]

I am sorry there is so much information out there saying to use a small chainring. I use them all the time but your problem, and most peoples, should be fixed with a new cassette.

:(((
i feared this day would come. lol

Now you know what hill you must climb, try the gears you have until you find the one that is right. Then plug into Sheldon's gear ratio website. First enter the size of chanring (30), and then the rear cog you like. I bet it is about 28 coming in at 2.1 gear ratio or 27.8 gear inches. Then plug into the web page a 42 chainring and a 40 cog you will see 2.0 ratio or 27.2 gear inches. Ebay a mountain bike cassette 11-40 or 11-42 and buy a 42 chainring with the better chainline. (You have to have a long cage derailleur, check, but I think you do, and then insert a longer B screw so you can get over the 40 cog.)

Hmmm okay.
The cassette on there was originally a 9 speed, now 8 speed due to one of the gears not being milled/casted correctly. I have the same issue with my stock gear, the kit came from the flea market and i cant fit the stock ring on there without risking crossthreading 4-5 of the screws. so yeah you're totally right this is looking like a Luna Eclipse ......

If you buy a cassette 11-42 or more you can use the steel 46 it came with. (2.1 ratio)

There is a risk your derailleur won't go over a big cog, but a 30 chainring will for sure give a terrible chainline.

... Yes. I guess the 30 chainring was made for the Sur Ron and similar only (not to mention our IGH folks lurking this thread lol)

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

Okay im updating my tasklist as well as adding other general updates. tysm

[Retrorockit]

The fork length/wheel diameter question comes down to the original "Axle to Crown" measurement, coupled with 1/2 the original wheel/tire diameter, to maintain as much as possible the angle of the head tube which affects steering response. If it leans back from too long a fork, or larger wheel it slows down, The other way it can become too fast or unstable even. You can measure from a skewer installed in the fork to the bottom of the lower headset bearing to get this number. Subtract 1/2 the thickness of the skewer if you want to be precise. You can stand a wheel up against a wall and use a sqaure against the wall to measure the height of the wheel and tire. Marks on a piece of tape work for this. Divide by 2 for the radius. You can get a pretty good estimate of this by adding 2x Tire width in mm, and wheel diameter in mm, divided by 2. But if you took a "24" fork, and added 50mm travel (increased axle to crown) and removed 4" (100mm) from the wheel/tire Diameter you should be reasonably close.
You can feel a 10mm change either way, but 20mm or more can be a problem.
Here is a page on Internal gear hub dimensions. Most of them are for 36 spoke wheels.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline-internal-gear.html

Here is a gear calculator that has IGH hubs in it.

https://sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

But a bigger chainring with an offset to the inside, usually 42T may be the best solution for you. The 24" rear wheel will help climbing. But I'm running a 50T flat ring with an adapter. This let's me use nromal bicycle parts and power in the top 6 gears is OK. The bottom 2 gears I turn off the motor. I do run a top roller chain guide.
Here's the build log on my bike. I tried a lot of things.

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/73463-gary-fisher-solsitice-bbshd-project

[Gizmo350k]

The fork length/wheel diameter question comes down to the original "Axle to Crown" measurement, coupled with 1/2 the original wheel/tire diameter, to maintain as much as possible the angle of the head tube which affects steering response. If it leans back from too long a fork, or larger wheel it slows down, The other way it can become too fast or unstable even. You can measure from a skewer installed in the fork to the bottom of the lower headset bearing to get this number. Subtract 1/2 the thickness of the skewer if you want to be precise. You can stand a wheel up against a wall and use a sqaure against the wall to measure the height of the wheel and tire. Marks on a piece of tape work for this. Divide by 2 for the radius. You can get a pretty good estimate of this by adding 2x Tire width in mm, and wheel diameter in mm, divided by 2. But if you took a "24" fork, and added 50mm travel (increased axle to crown) and removed 4" (100mm) from the wheel/tire Diameter you should be reasonably close.
You can feel a 10mm change either way, but 20mm or more can be a problem.


I've added two quick photos of the stock fork and the disc brake one to the album, I will try to do those calculations tomorrow if time allows.



Here is a page on Internal gear hub dimensions. Most of them are for 36 spoke wheels.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline-internal-gear.html

Here is a gear calculator that has IGH hubs in it.

https://sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

But a bigger chainring with an offset to the inside, usually 42T may be the best solution for you. The 24" rear wheel will help climbing. But I'm running a 50T flat ring with an adapter. This let's me use nromal bicycle parts and power in the top 6 gears is OK. The bottom 2 gears I turn off the motor. I do run a top roller chain guide.
Here's the build log on my bike. I tried a lot of things.
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...-bbshd-project

In the mean time, I am heading to central to see if i can find a hub that does both cassette and rotor mount locally. most rural bike shops dont seem to know of this phenomena..... lmao
Or maybe i'll need to just grab a Shimano/SRAM Hub - but will those work with my 36H wheels. Find out on the next episode... of dragonballz lol

[Gizmo350k]

The fork length/wheel diameter question comes down to the original "Axle to Crown" measurement, coupled with 1/2 the original wheel/tire diameter, to maintain as much as possible the angle of the head tube which affects steering response. If it leans back from too long a fork, or larger wheel it slows down, The other way it can become too fast or unstable even. You can measure from a skewer installed in the fork to the bottom of the lower headset bearing to get this number. Subtract 1/2 the thickness of the skewer if you want to be precise. You can stand a wheel up against a wall and use a sqaure against the wall to measure the height of the wheel and tire. Marks on a piece of tape work for this. Divide by 2 for the radius. You can get a pretty good estimate of this by adding 2x Tire width in mm, and wheel diameter in mm, divided by 2. But if you took a "24" fork, and added 50mm travel (increased axle to crown) and removed 4" (100mm) from the wheel/tire Diameter you should be reasonably close.
You can feel a 10mm change either way, but 20mm or more can be a problem.
Here is a page on Internal gear hub dimensions. Most of them are for 36 spoke wheels.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline-internal-gear.html

Here is a gear calculator that has IGH hubs in it.

https://sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

But a bigger chainring with an offset to the inside, usually 42T may be the best solution for you. The 24" rear wheel will help climbing. But I'm running a 50T flat ring with an adapter. This let's me use nromal bicycle parts and power in the top 6 gears is OK. The bottom 2 gears I turn off the motor. I do run a top roller chain guide.
Here's the build log on my bike. I tried a lot of things.
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...-bbshd-project

I found a roller chain guide on ebizzle, is yours something similar to this?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIVERSAL-CHAIN-LINE-DIRECTOR-CHAINGUIDE-TENSIONER-BLACK-FOR-MOUNTAIN-BIKE-MTB/272599514030?hash=item3f78327bae:g:7EwAAOSwd~RZP3A 3


I found some IGHs online but boy, its a bit confusing.
Finding an affordable model that is designed for 135mm rear dropout spacing is proving to be a challenge

The Sturney RS-RK3 seems to be interesting, but is disc brake only and has what would be a horrible chainline. will start to look at building over on a 26" frame with diskies... sigh

[Retrorockit]

IGH is kind of tough to do because it requires a dedicated wheel build and not a lot of options on chainline.. Derailer can work just fine and you don't really need all the gears with a BBSHD. I own one of each. No reason to give up on what you have. My advice is make it work without spending too much. Then save up and wait for a deal on a real 26" MTB later. I'm not sure what the used MTB market in China is like. The sport was very popular here around 2004 and good 26" bikes from that era can be found cheap now with good suspension and disc brakes already there. Most riders want newer wheel sizes, and extra gears that newer bikes have. But for a street E bike that doesn't matter. Being prepared to act, but also being patient is the key to finding something like that. The longer you wait, the more you can save up for the right bike. Any MTB that has Avid BB7 disc brakes will probably have a good fork and rugged wheelset to go with them. Many people here bought those bikes and found out that MTB riding was too hard or rugged for them, and parked the bikes in almost new condition, or rode them gently.

[Retrorockit]

The old front derailer can be used for a budget chain guide also. Just park it where you want the chain to be.
This will work to keep the chain on the original cast iron 46t BBSHD chainring. That size can probably work on a 24" bike.
Mine is this type mounted at the top of the chaihring.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Colorful-10...1f6c1d610b678c
One of these,
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=rear+derailleur+hanger+extension&hvadid=779966 75725444&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_5eauxmb6ax_e
and one of these

https://www.amazon.com/Race-CSM680-8sp-Cassette-11-40T/dp/B01N7VRAFM/ref=pd_cp_468_1/133-3106494-5412124?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01N7VRAFM&pd_rd_r=2b2297d8-6ad9-4880-92ae-87228fef69ad&pd_rd_w=Z47TE&pd_rd_wg=uCGKU&pf_rd_p=592dc715-8438-4207-b7fa-4c7afdeb6112&pf_rd_r=SHYRMGGH2S3XGMDVWQ2W&psc=1&refRID=SHYRMGGH2S3XGMDVWQ2W

[zmarkjam]

I did the exact same thing Retrorockit is talking about. Stayed ready, patient, and found a great deal on a used but like new mid 2000's (25 total miles from previous owner) full suspension MTB. He let me have it for $200. It turned out to be the perfect platform for conversion to an electric trail bike (large triangle for batteries, standard bottom bracket). I changed the rear cassette to an 8 speed all steel 11-40 tooth (less than $20). Triangle battery is 17.5 ah along with a spare 17.5 ah backpack battery. It's a very capable trail bike that has taken me on several rides 80 miles plus. Also been dead reliable, 3 years in use, over 6,000 total miles, zero issues, minimal and inexpensive maintenance.

[ncmired]

Hi zmarkjam - have you a moment to document this build (the more photos the merrier)? Apologies if you already have and I didn't see it

[zmarkjam]

Hi ncrd, I did a basic build report on three bikes back in August 2018. Here's the page: https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...-builds-so-far. I've put thousands and thousands of smiling miles on each since then. Mark

[ncmired]

Thank you sir!

[Retrorockit]

Those old bikes have standard bottom brackets, standard headsets, strong 8 speed drivetrains. Like I said, BB7 brakes point to a serious bike from that era. Strong fork tubes and eyelets on the spoke nipples. That's a bike that will stay under you at the speeds a BBSHD can go.

[Retrorockit]

Giant Trance was a very capable bike back in the day. Probably a $1200-1400 bike back then.