Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2018 Crust Scapegoat, BBS02 or BBSHD, Rohloff IGH

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    2018 Crust Scapegoat, BBS02 or BBSHD, Rohloff IGH

    Initial Specs: 68mm motor(s), 73mm bottom bracket

    My second build, with the following goals, desires, or components:
    • Fattish tire clearance with a narrowish Q. The Scapegoat clears various tires, and initially came with 27.5 / 650B by 3.8 Maxxis Minion FBF tires. I'm going with 27.5 by 2.8 (or maybe 2.4) street tires to start. I stole this tire size/style idea from Rider. I don't want the complexity of suspensions, and am hoping that the right tire choice will soften the ride.
    • Clearance for either the BBS02 (primary) or BBSHD (backup) motor.
    • Big honkin' 205mm disc rotors
    • Cable operated brake calipers, for easier lever integration and roadside repair. I've had excellent results with the TRP Spyer dual-sided actuation calipers on my other bike.
    • 1/8 inch chain
    • There's only one wide-range, wide chain line, proven and well supported IGH with a simplified shifter - the Rohloff. I wish there was alternative with fewer speeds and a better price.
    • Adjustable, replaceable rear dropouts with an inboard (within the frame triangle) disk caliper mount
    • Capacity for a temporary chain tensioner
    • Steel frame tubes
    The frame is available bare or built - I elected to go with built as built was very close to what I wanted anyway, and the price seemed very reasonable.

    Here's some stock bare or built frame pictures:
    Click image for larger version  Name:	image_14038.jpg Views:	1 Size:	290.5 KB ID:	73811












    Click image for larger version  Name:	image_14039.jpg Views:	1 Size:	26.0 KB ID:	73812









    The rocker dropouts are Paragon-compatible:
    Click image for larger version  Name:	image_14040.jpg Views:	1 Size:	24.7 KB ID:	73813









    The 73mm BSA bottom bracket indents for the (up to approx. 38 tooth) chain ring, and clears both the BBS02 and BBSHD main gear housings - no spacers are needed. The wrinkled adhesive-backed rubber sheet acts as a bumper:
    Click image for larger version  Name:	image_14041.jpg Views:	1 Size:	653.9 KB ID:	73814










    Here's the BBSHD with the Luna One 36 tooth chain ring and a KMC Z510HX 1/8 chain, giving a chain line 0f 60mm, 2mm wider than the nominal (splined sprocket Rohloff) 58mm:
    Click image for larger version  Name:	20180917_141751.jpg Views:	1 Size:	1.47 MB ID:	73815










    Left side BBSHD / chain stay clearance:
    Click image for larger version  Name:	20180917_141933.jpg Views:	1 Size:	509.6 KB ID:	73831










    I rerouted the twin shift cables and cable box for better access, and to keep everything away from the eventual rear rack. I plan on moving the speed pickup adjacent and to the right of the rear brake caliper, with a magnet glued to one of the brake rotor spiral arms:
    Click image for larger version  Name:	20180917_141956.jpg Views:	1 Size:	952.8 KB ID:	73830










    The bike so far, with Schwalbe 27.5 by 2.8 Moto street tires:
    Click image for larger version  Name:	20180917_142105.jpg Views:	1 Size:	1.57 MB ID:	73816









    More to come ...
    Last edited by ncrkd; 10-22-2018, 07:01 AM.
    Intro: http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...ntro#post17033
    First build, Priority Eight / BBSHD / Nexus IGH
    Second build, 2018 Crust Scapegoat, BBS02 or BBSHD, Rohloff IGH
    Third build, 2018 Crust Evasion step-thru, BBS02, Shimano Nexus INTER-3 IGH

    #2
    Smaller Nut Sack

    One of the intents of this build is to get more exercise than I do with my BBSHD-powered commuter/errand bike. It can be difficult to keep up with the BBSHD sky-high cadence, so the plan for this build was all along to use the BBS02 as the primary motor, and keep a BBSHD on the shelf as a spare for both of my bikes.

    To fit the BBS02 motor, I decided to upgrade the crank arms (Lekkie offset left, straight right), because the standard left crank arm came uncomfortable close to the frame stay.

    Here's the BBS02 setup - 68-73mm motor, Lekkie 36 tooth chain ring, crank arms:
    Click image for larger version  Name:	20180919_111236.jpg Views:	1 Size:	1.46 MB ID:	74337

    Click image for larger version

Name:	image_14428.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	1.17 MB
ID:	76643

    Click image for larger version

Name:	image_14429.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	1.08 MB
ID:	76644



    Click image for larger version  Name:	20180919_125428.jpg Views:	1 Size:	1.89 MB ID:	74340



    Coming up - add a rear rack, speed sensor relocation, cable routing cleanup, tweaking the fit.
    Last edited by ncrkd; 10-22-2018, 07:25 AM.
    Intro: http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...ntro#post17033
    First build, Priority Eight / BBSHD / Nexus IGH
    Second build, 2018 Crust Scapegoat, BBS02 or BBSHD, Rohloff IGH
    Third build, 2018 Crust Evasion step-thru, BBS02, Shimano Nexus INTER-3 IGH

    Comment


      #3
      Tools

      This - the affordable, handy Luna mid drive installation wrench?
      Click image for larger version  Name:	Luna-wrench.jpg Views:	1 Size:	9.7 KB ID:	74042







      or That - the custom sockets at more than twice the price?

      Click image for larger version  Name:	bafang_installation_tools-4__39836.1467595244.jpg?c=2.jpg Views:	1 Size:	61.0 KB ID:	74043Click image for larger version  Name:	bafang_installation_tools-1__90933.1467595244.jpg?c=2.jpg Views:	1 Size:	77.7 KB ID:	74044
      Click image for larger version  Name:	NEW_5D_SOCKETS-141-2__77065.1516215480.jpg?c=2.jpg Views:	1 Size:	81.6 KB ID:	74045

      If you develop a Bafang mid-drive build hankering (or perhaps mental illness), get the sockets. Why?
      • Your hands will thank you, because the sheet wrench edges are brutal
      • The bike will thank you (when you find out you can barely swing the sheet wrench in the bottom bracket well)
      • With the socket, you can tighten the lock ring to the proper torque (60 foot-pounds minimum)
      • The socket may be a little kinder to the finish on the dainty, aluminum outer ring grooves
      Last edited by ncrkd; 10-05-2018, 02:22 PM.
      Intro: http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...ntro#post17033
      First build, Priority Eight / BBSHD / Nexus IGH
      Second build, 2018 Crust Scapegoat, BBS02 or BBSHD, Rohloff IGH
      Third build, 2018 Crust Evasion step-thru, BBS02, Shimano Nexus INTER-3 IGH

      Comment


        #4
        Cable tie alternative (well, sort of)

        For my previous build I secured the cables and wires to the bike using standard band cable ties, and they work for the most part. I came across the Cobra Flexroute when trying to solve a securing situation that regular cable ties don't do very well. The Flexroute guides come in various diameters (both the surface diameter and the cable diameter), are soft to conform around any tube shape (main triangle, forks and stays), and can be both trimmed and doubled up to hold multiple cables.

        And no, you don't have to disconnect one end of the cable and route it through the guide - it clips on to the pre-routed cables, wherever you need it to be.
        Click image for larger version  Name:	flexroute3.jpg Views:	1 Size:	55.2 KB ID:	74348






        The special cable ties sit flat on the surface, though regular cable ties can also be used.
        Click image for larger version  Name:	cobra-flexroute-1.jpg Views:	1 Size:	31.1 KB ID:	74349







        Here's a "triple-up" of two shift cables and a brake cable:
        Click image for larger version  Name:	20180921_111512.jpg Views:	1 Size:	47.6 KB ID:	74350







        The guides have a slightly rubbery feel, and flex as needed.
        Last edited by ncrkd; 09-21-2018, 03:36 PM.
        Intro: http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...ntro#post17033
        First build, Priority Eight / BBSHD / Nexus IGH
        Second build, 2018 Crust Scapegoat, BBS02 or BBSHD, Rohloff IGH
        Third build, 2018 Crust Evasion step-thru, BBS02, Shimano Nexus INTER-3 IGH

        Comment


          #5
          Gear Chart (36T chainring, 15T rear sprocket)
          Click image for larger version

Name:	gear-chart.png
Views:	1
Size:	20.7 KB
ID:	74488

          Intro: http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...ntro#post17033
          First build, Priority Eight / BBSHD / Nexus IGH
          Second build, 2018 Crust Scapegoat, BBS02 or BBSHD, Rohloff IGH
          Third build, 2018 Crust Evasion step-thru, BBS02, Shimano Nexus INTER-3 IGH

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ncrkd View Post
            Initial Specs: 68mm motor(s), 73mm bottom bracket

            My second build, with the following goals, desires, or components:
            • Fattish tire clearance with a narrowish Q. The Scapegoat clears various tires, and initially came with 27.5 / 650B by 3.8 Maxxis Minion FBF tires. I'm going with 27.5 by 2.8 (or maybe 2.4) street tires to start. I stole this tire size/style idea from the Stromer ST5. I don't want the complexity of suspensions, and am hoping that the right tire choice will soften the ride.
            • Clearance for either the BBS02 (primary) or BBSHD (backup) motor.
            • Big honkin' 205mm disc rotors
            • Cable operated brake calipers, for easier lever integration and roadside repair. I've had excellent results with the TRP Spyer dual-sided actuation calipers on my other bike.
            • 1/8 inch chain
            • There's only one wide-range, wide chain line, proven and well supported IGH with a simplified shifter - the Rohloff. I wish there was alternative with fewer speeds and a better price.
            • Adjustable, replaceable rear dropouts with an inboard (within the frame triangle) disk caliper mount
            • Capacity for a temporary chain tensioner
            • Steel frame tubes
            The frame is available bare or built - I elected to go with built as built was very close to what I wanted anyway, and the price seemed very reasonable.

            Here's some stock bare or built frame pictures:
            Click image for larger version Name:	image_14038.jpg Views:	1 Size:	290.5 KB ID:	73811











            Click image for larger version Name:	image_14039.jpg Views:	1 Size:	26.0 KB ID:	73812








            The rocker dropouts are Paragon-compatible:
            Click image for larger version Name:	image_14040.jpg Views:	1 Size:	24.7 KB ID:	73813








            The 73mm BSA bottom bracket indents for the (up to approx. 38 tooth) chain ring, and clears both the BBS02 and BBSHD main gear housings - no spacers are needed. The wrinkled adhesive-backed rubber sheet acts as a bumper:
            Click image for larger version Name:	image_14041.jpg Views:	1 Size:	653.9 KB ID:	73814









            Here's the BBSHD, with the Luna One 36 tooth chain ring, giving a chain line 0f 60mm, 3mm wider than the nominal (splined sprocket Rohloff) 57mm:
            Click image for larger version Name:	20180917_141751.jpg Views:	1 Size:	1.47 MB ID:	73815









            Left side BBSHD / chain stay clearance:
            Click image for larger version Name:	20180917_141933.jpg Views:	1 Size:	509.6 KB ID:	73831









            I rerouted the twin shift cables and cable box for better access, and to keep everything away from the eventual rear rack. I plan on moving the speed pickup adjacent and to the right of the rear brake caliper, with a magnet glued to one of the brake rotor spiral arms:
            Click image for larger version Name:	20180917_141956.jpg Views:	1 Size:	952.8 KB ID:	73830









            The bike so far, with Schwalbe 27.5 by 2.8 Moto street tires:
            Click image for larger version Name:	20180917_142105.jpg Views:	1 Size:	1.57 MB ID:	73816








            More to come ...
            Sweet! Looks fantastic. how are the tires? Tube or tubeless? Looking into changing my knobbies for those. Do I see a rohloff? Dam I want one bad, but my wife will freak if she knew how much those things are lol.
            Last edited by ChrisJTX; 10-02-2018, 05:18 PM.

            Comment


              #7
              Hi Chris, thanks for stopping by - the tires are very nice. I rode on the stock, tubeless Maxxis Minion FBF tires all of once and hated the wheelbarrow-like steering feeling, not to mention the noise. The bike's geometry seems to work well with the Schwalbe 27.5 by 2.8 Moto street tires, as in very stable, and not flighty - which is how I want a bike to behave at my age. I run them with tubes at 40lbs, down from the max of 45lbs.

              I'll try dropping to 30-35lbs, based on Rider's experiences.

              Yep, the bike has a Rohloff. For now I'm sticking with IGH hubs with beefy 1/8 chains. I am using a redundant (to the rocker dropouts) chain tensioner to reduce chain cuts, as I'm still messing with the rear sprocket gearing. I try to set the bike's overall gearing so that I'm predominately riding in the hub's 1:1 gear (5th on a Nexus 8, 11th on the Rohloff).
              Last edited by ncrkd; 10-06-2018, 09:37 AM.
              Intro: http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...ntro#post17033
              First build, Priority Eight / BBSHD / Nexus IGH
              Second build, 2018 Crust Scapegoat, BBS02 or BBSHD, Rohloff IGH
              Third build, 2018 Crust Evasion step-thru, BBS02, Shimano Nexus INTER-3 IGH

              Comment


                #8
                Rohloff Ramblings
                1. Yes, lot of gears. I'm getting used to double and triple gear shifts on rolling terrain, but am actually glad there are such fine, even increments. Especially since my intent is to actually assist the motor (not just throttle along).
                2. A gear sensor appears not needed - the Rohloff, unlike the Shimano, will not shift under power. You have to back off peddling anyway.
                3. The grip shift is vague - maybe I misadjusted it, maybe it's the dual cables. The shift detent and spring is inside the hub, not up at the bar. I don't think the hub can be partially shifted (like the Shimano) and It's not sensitive to a misadjusted cable.
                4. Gearing changes with the spline sprockets are a snap now because the shift mechanisms are on the other side of the axle. The chain ring / sprocket ratios is stricter with the Rohloff (2.4) versus the Shimano (1.8).
                Last edited by ncrkd; 10-05-2018, 03:19 PM.
                Intro: http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...ntro#post17033
                First build, Priority Eight / BBSHD / Nexus IGH
                Second build, 2018 Crust Scapegoat, BBS02 or BBSHD, Rohloff IGH
                Third build, 2018 Crust Evasion step-thru, BBS02, Shimano Nexus INTER-3 IGH

                Comment


                  #9
                  Can you get a thumb shifter on these bad boys? So far I have only seen half twist.. thinking about purchasing one under the wife radar haha.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by ChrisJTX View Post
                    Can you get a thumb shifter on these bad boys? So far I have only seen half twist.. thinking about purchasing one under the wife radar haha.
                    The only other, non barrel shifter I've found is the paddle shifter set from Cinq5 - http://www.en.cinq5.de/schaltsysteme...for-flat-bars/ and the Gebla Rohbox, which is an adapter of sorts to trigger shifters - http://www.rohbox.com/.

                    On both of the above there is no numeric gear indicator, so I'm not interested. My desire for the numeric gear indicator may be stupid or moot now that I'm no longer commuting. While commuting (on the same route) and trying to go as fast as possible, I memorized what gear worked best where on the route. My commuter has a Shimano 8-speed IGH with wonky variations in the ratios. The Rohloff on the other hand has very predictable, "a little more, a little less" 13.6% ratios, and maybe the paddles would be "the nuts".

                    I'm less pressured to get somewhere now. I'm only pressured to ride fast (home) when I have a load of groceries.

                    I'll get the hang of adjusting the stock barrel shifter. I'm waiting for the cables/housing to bed in.
                    Last edited by ncrkd; 10-06-2018, 10:17 AM.
                    Intro: http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...ntro#post17033
                    First build, Priority Eight / BBSHD / Nexus IGH
                    Second build, 2018 Crust Scapegoat, BBS02 or BBSHD, Rohloff IGH
                    Third build, 2018 Crust Evasion step-thru, BBS02, Shimano Nexus INTER-3 IGH

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X