2018 Motobecane NightTrain Bullet Titanium w/ BBSHD

[cbird808]

There's not too much out there on installing a BBSHD on a Ti NightTrain, so I thought I'd post this for others.

The install was relatively easy. I used a 120mm BBSHD, Lekkie 42T bling ring, Lekkie 170 left offset crank set, a Luna Wolf Pack battery, the usual basic Luna add ons, aluminum tube from McMaster and a new SRAM GX Eagle chain with 2 links removed.

There weren't many special tools involved: chain breaker, SRAM Dub bottom bracket wrench, Luna bottom bracket wrench for Bafang, allen wrenches, mitre saw w/ non-ferrous metal blade.

I bought the bike (size L) from bikes direct. I bought almost everything else from Luna, except for the Lekkie stuff which came from em3ev.

The before pic:

The bike was very light before the install, bikes direct claims ~27lbs. (note: I now attach dog with 4 ft leash on other side of bike and generally use a harness)


After:

I haven't really optimized cable routing because I just set this up and also haven't installed the gear sensor yet. The fenders are from Mudhugger and work quite well. The battery is stuck on with magnets, but I don't trust them and cable tied the battery to the down tube, just in case.


Bling ring and BBSHD up close:

The pedals are Look Keo Carbon, circa 2008, from my tri bike. Maybe I should buy something newer...


Close up on the custom cut aluminum tube from McMaster (it is ~13.5 mm long, 1.37" ID 1.5" OD

https://www.mcmaster.com/9056K79

):

I'm guessing the exact length will vary from bike to bike. I cut three of these. The first was too long. This is the second, and the third allowed the BBSHD to just barely touch the chain stay after tightening down the bottom bracket nut. So I went back to this one and filed it till I got bored and this is the result. It's good enough. On the other side of the bottom bracket (no pics), I used the spacers provided by Luna in the mid drive kit. For the motor bolts, I used M6 x 30 mm with a half inch long spacer and two M6 washers on each (14.5 mm). Will update with this aluminum spacer from McMaster

https://www.mcmaster.com/94669a351

(M6, 15 mm long x 13 mm OD). I can file it to length.


The chain line isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be (3rd gear):

I wouldn't shift to a lower gear than third (this is a 1 x 12). I had the chain come off the Lekkie when I did. If you need that 50T rear gear, then you'll have to rearrange the cassette on this bike. This is also a good pic to note exactly how far outboard the crank is on this side of the bike. I'm having an issue with my inner ankle bone hitting the crank because I actually still pedal. I think I could grind down the inner side of the crank to bring it inboard a cm or so. Any ideas?


Luna 500c mini display:

I like the display, but it could use a gear indicator and a clock. Also notice that ((!)) light, which indicates that the blasted brake sensors are being triggered. I may remove the brake sensors if I can't solve this on my SRAM Level T brake levers. Perhaps stronger magnets would help. I can't get them any closer with electrical tape. One day they're fine, then the next they're not. The magnets do have holes, so I'm thinking about screwing them to the handles. Lastly, the thumb throttle wire is too short to route along the handle bar, so it's hanging down. This could be my excuse to try a twist grip throttle.

[JPLabs]

Pics aren't showing up......

[cbird808]

Pics aren't showing up......

How about now?

[cbird808]

Some updates on this build after 80 miles:

1. I removed the brake sensors, but will probably attach the magnets with screws and give them another go.

2. On my ankle hitting the right crank, if I move my cleat towards the tip of my shoe, then my ankle clears. The 165 cranks would have solved the problem, also. I will still eventually grind down the inside of the right crank to bring it inboard

3. I'm getting about 40 miles per charge (sample size of 2). The battery goes from 70% to 0% in very little time. Hopefully this behavior will change.

4. I still haven't installed the gear shift sensor. I've been successful in obtaining smooth shifts while pedaling after a bit of trial and error.

5. Triple cable ties on the battery have held it in place.

[jstew]

Looks good! Attaching one magnet to the lever then just sticking on an additional magnet to that one helped solve a similar brake sensor issue I had. There is a pic of how I attached a half magnet with epoxy in my description of my Marin Rock Springs 2 build. Pic just shows 1/2 magnet, but I added another half (just magnet--no glue needed). Worked great. Could have added more magnets, if needed. Might be worth a try.

[cbird808]

Thank you! I'll give the two magnets a shot. Right now, I'm running without the sensors.

[MoneyPit]

Check out the thread here in the battery section on firmly securing the Wolf Pack to a down tube. That frame is a Motobecane Lurch equivalent to any round-tubed bike.

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/batteries/18650/70344-bombproofing-my-wolf-pack-installation

Details on your McMaster tubing? I used McMaster's custom metric drill bushings on two bikes. They are steel and you can cut them to a length of choice down to a 1/10th of a mm and specify ID and OD to a similarly fine degree. I reduced the ID a bit to better hug the HD axle and increased the OD to ensure a solid plant on the BB no matter what. The bushings come chamfered lightly which helps make for a perfect mating to the secondary housing given the thicker OD.

Only downside is the cost of about $45 and wait time of around 3 weeks.

I used BB/cassette spacers of varying widths to determine length

[cbird808]

The bb tubing from McMaster can be found here: https://www.mcmaster.com/9056K79 It's 6061 Aluminum Round Tube, 0.065" Wall Thickness, 1.37"ID and 1-1/2" OD, The id matched closely to what I had seen recommended for the bbshd and the od was very close to what I had measured from my bike. It works, but the OD and thickness could be slightly larger.

[MoneyPit]

OK I see it. Thats a 34.7mm ID on your pipe. For my custom bushings I chose 34mm ID and I could have probably gone 33.5 to 33.7. I wanted a snug fit. My outside diameter was 44 mm to get that solid purchase on the BB and also fit inside of the BBSHD's recess on the secondary housing. The tubing you linked is just under 38mm. A good budget option but I do recommend springing the bigger bucks if you can stand to spend the money.

[Boondocksaints]

HI cbird808,

I was wondering how tall you were? I'm contemplating doin this same build and bike but am not sure if I should get M or L (I'm about 5'11" with longish arms.)

Also, do you think the 100MM BBSHD will fit?

[Pierre]

Boondocks, I did this build two years ago. I now have 6,000 miles without much trouble on the bike. I would get the large frame, the medium is about right for me at 5'8". You definitely need the 120mm BBSHD and the extra spacers to miss the chainstay with the chainring. Definitely get an after market chainring like the Luna or Leikie.

[BucWilD]

The more I look at your guys' builds, the more I want to upgrade the crap out of mine lol...

[Rajesh]

There's not too much out there on installing a BBSHD on a Ti NightTrain, so I thought I'd post this for others.

The install was relatively easy. I used a 120mm BBSHD, Lekkie 42T bling ring, Lekkie 170 left offset crank set, a Luna Wolf Pack battery, the usual basic Luna add ons, aluminum tube from McMaster and a new SRAM GX Eagle chain with 2 links removed.

There weren't many special tools involved: chain breaker, SRAM Dub bottom bracket wrench, Luna bottom bracket wrench for Bafang, allen wrenches, mitre saw w/ non-ferrous metal blade.

I bought the bike (size L) from bikes direct. I bought almost everything else from Luna, except for the Lekkie stuff which came from em3ev.

The before pic:

The bike was very light before the install, bikes direct claims ~27lbs. (note: I now attach dog with 4 ft leash on other side of bike and generally use a harness)


After:

I haven't really optimized cable routing because I just set this up and also haven't installed the gear sensor yet. The fenders are from Mudhugger and work quite well. The battery is stuck on with magnets, but I don't trust them and cable tied the battery to the down tube, just in case.


Bling ring and BBSHD up close:

The pedals are Look Keo Carbon, circa 2008, from my tri bike. Maybe I should buy something newer...


Close up on the custom cut aluminum tube from McMaster (it is ~13.5 mm long, 1.37" ID 1.5" OD

https://www.mcmaster.com/9056K79

):

I'm guessing the exact length will vary from bike to bike. I cut three of these. The first was too long. This is the second, and the third allowed the BBSHD to just barely touch the chain stay after tightening down the bottom bracket nut. So I went back to this one and filed it till I got bored and this is the result. It's good enough. On the other side of the bottom bracket (no pics), I used the spacers provided by Luna in the mid drive kit. For the motor bolts, I used M6 x 30 mm with a half inch long spacer and two M6 washers on each (14.5 mm). Will update with this aluminum spacer from McMaster

https://www.mcmaster.com/94669a351

(M6, 15 mm long x 13 mm OD). I can file it to length.


The chain line isn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be (3rd gear):

I wouldn't shift to a lower gear than third (this is a 1 x 12). I had the chain come off the Lekkie when I did. If you need that 50T rear gear, then you'll have to rearrange the cassette on this bike. This is also a good pic to note exactly how far outboard the crank is on this side of the bike. I'm having an issue with my inner ankle bone hitting the crank because I actually still pedal. I think I could grind down the inner side of the crank to bring it inboard a cm or so. Any ideas?


Luna 500c mini display:

I like the display, but it could use a gear indicator and a clock. Also notice that ((!)) light, which indicates that the blasted brake sensors are being triggered. I may remove the brake sensors if I can't solve this on my SRAM Level T brake levers. Perhaps stronger magnets would help. I can't get them any closer with electrical tape. One day they're fine, then the next they're not. The magnets do have holes, so I'm thinking about screwing them to the handles. Lastly, the thumb throttle wire is too short to route along the handle bar, so it's hanging down. This could be my excuse to try a twist grip throttle.

Would the 100mm motor fit in that frame?

[cbird808]

A 100mm motor will not clear the chainstay

[cbird808]

Almost 4 year update.

I never messed with the brake sensors since removing them. You don't need them.

I removed the throttle. I never used it intentionally. I enjoy the pedal assist.

I've learned to pedal without hitting my ankle bone on the wide crank.

The cranks come loose on their own - super annoying. I have to tighten them all the time.

The McMaster spacer I used is perfectly adequate, no problems.

The cable ties holding on the battery will break in off road riding.

I changed the tires to streets after tearing a huge hole in the original tires riding on our horrible streets. No flats since.

I'm getting about 25 miles per charge. I see that I reported 40 miles per charge originally, but I don't think that's correct. Ive charged it every 2 round trips to work (20 miles) because a third round trip (30 miles) could end with a dead battery. I use pedal assist (1/5) most of the time, and 2/5 if it's super windy or I'm in a rush. 3/5 is the absolute max I need, and have used in storms heading into the wind trying to make it home. I recall it being so windy on a 3/5 day, that the tops of the palm trees lining the road were blowing off. They were damaged by the icepocalypse (the one where Ted Cruz went to Cancun) , but crazy windy none the less. There are no hills where I live, but the wind is always blowing 20+ mph so it's like riding uphill in one direction and downhill in the other.

I could get by fine with a smaller motor. It would save some weight. I'm not sure if it would have any meaningful impact on range. I'm hitting top speed (32 mph or so) on pedal assist 2/5 most of the time.

32 mph gets the adrenaline flowing. If I want to go faster, I'll ride a motorcycle with the appropriate safety gear.

I'm impressed the battery has held up so well over 4 years. I haven't babied it. I've run it to zero more than a few times. Only ever charged it to 90pct.

I'm planning to upgrade to a larger capacity battery pack because I'd like to go on longer rides. It sucks to run out of power. Perhaps I'll set up 2 batteries, the wolf and a 52v 20+ah. Maybe a rear rack can best enable a dual battery setup?

I don't like the battery capacity indicator. On the pct scale, it should tell me 50 pct when I have 50 pct range, instead, I suspect it's 50 pct of the total volts possible.

I still wish the screen had a clock and gear indicator.

Im seriously considering installing the shift sensor. If I get the battery, then I'll install that also.

The lack of suspension is pretty rough on our terrible streets. I hate the power sapping feeling of rear suspension, but my hands and wrists wish I had suspended forks. Maybe I'll think a out addressing that.

The fenders are great. I had to redo the rear cable ties once.

[ncmired]

Thanks for the update - it's always good to read how people's bikes turn out long term.

Dunno why the crank arms are loosening, but note that they have the first generation extractor caps which are now known too weak to actually use. Use a regular extractor tool instead, or maybe Lekkie will send you the updated ones.

The standard Bafang crank bolts can also be subbed for the Lekkie bolt and cap.

[73Eldo]

Yes cool to see a long term update.

-brake sensors seem to depend on how and where you ride and what you and your rig are like. I personally like em especially on the bike I ride a lot of single track on. If they quit working on my street bike I probably would not go through too much trouble trying to repair them.

-I could probably live without the throttle and don't use it that often but the times I use it I think I would miss it.

-my widest one is a 100mm and I do see some wear in the finish on the crank arms so something on me must be slightly rubbing but I don't think I'm ever hitting hard, perhaps adding another 10mm to each side I would have the same issue. My 73 bike has similar wear but it was like that when i got it and is pretty dull so I don't think I'm rubbing on that one which is a further indication that 10mm could make it or break it for some people.

-very strange about your cranks. Maybe its related to the bolts like NCM suggested or maybe some locktite if its the bolts backing out? I'm running stock arms on both my main bikes and both were loose when I got them used and i totally expected to have to replace them (I maybe even ordered a spare set) but it hasn't been an issue. I'm not light and especially on my off road bike I know I put a lot of load on them.

-do you have the magnets under the battery? My main bikes I have the magnets mounted inside the zip tie triangle bag so the bag keeps em from going too far if they come off. THe one bike I don't have a bag I use a rubber strap that keeps some tension on to make sure it can't fall away from the magnets on big bumps or a fall.

-do you have the 12 or 13.5ah pack? 25 miles seems reasonable especially for the 12ah, that is about what I get from mine on the fat bike with a little room to spare. I also have a 13.5 and one time on that I did squeeze 40 miles out of it but that was 100% charge and with the 29" fairly high pressure street slicks on it and I was pedaling my butt off the last half of the ride. I would not have called that a normal range and I'm sure one power burst in the last 10 miles would have kicked out the BMS.

-I agree 30 mph is getting kinda sketchy especially on a fat bike. Slightly less spooky on my 29er street bike but 20mph is usually plenty fast for me.

-I don't remember having issues with the battery indicators but they do act differently between my 2 bikes. The less accurate one is with my 20ah pack that I never get close to killing, my ass is done well before that pack. I mostly look at the voltage.

-I got one display with a clock and it doesn't have any memory so if you disconnect the battery you loose the time setting. Setting the time is a pain, it takes many key strokes so most of the time I don't bother to set it.

-as far as suspension I think you have to spend a decent about to get something decent especially if you are a little on the heavier side. Cheap suspension and a heavy rider are a bad combo, I think worse than no suspension. My street bike had a suspension fork that I changed out for a steel fork and the ride is now far superior in my opinion. My offroad bike is fully rigid but all steel so that with the fat tires I think gives a reasonable ride. Have you tried a suspension seat post? I hear really good things about the thudbusters but even a cheap one seems to help. I'm running PNW Coast suspension droppers on both my main bikes and can't ride without em now.

[cbird808]

I took the bike to the local bike shop and I'm not sure why they loosened at first, but after the first time, I apparently rounded the square hole in the crank. This causes the crank to keep coming loose. I took off the lekkie and put on the bafang crank. I check the bolt weekly and I have had to tighten it, but it is much better now.