2016 Priority Eight / BBSHD / Shimano Nexus 8 IGH

[ncmired]

[originally posted elsewhere late 2016, and then moved to this forum in 2019]

First build for me, and it was pretty straight forward once I came to the understanding that, with the off-the-shelf parts currently available, BBSHD + Shimano Nexus / Alfine IGH hub is not possible with the Gates Centertrack Belt - it's not possible to hit the front to rear belt alignment needed. I am a former work commuter, but stopped when my health deteriorated - I need to get back on the bike for the exercise / mental release.

Bike - 2016 Priority Eight, size "medium" (19")
Motor package - Luna Bafang BBSHD, color display, cable brake levers, Shark battery case

Changes to the frame consisted of:

1. cleaning up a little over-weld within the 68mm bottom bracket tube with a curved hand file
2. grinding down the bottom down tube cable bracket

Motor package changes:

1. added mounting hole to Shark battery case, to move case up & away from the drivetrain

Existing drivetrain changes:

1. Dumped the Gates centerline CDN pulleys and belt, and went with the Eclipse 42t chain ring to a standard Shimano Alfine 18t cog

Optional changes made:

1. dumped the Tektro HD-M330 hydraulic brakes, went with Bafang switch levers / TRP Spyre-140 calipers
2. for now, removed the fenders, for easier build access
3. increased rear tire size from 32 to 37
4. dumped azz-hatchet seat for a "wide-load" seat

Optional other purchases:

1. Park portable stand

Future potential changes:

1. might go with a low-twenties rear cog

What I'd do differently

1. I debated back & forth between this bike and the Spot Brand Five Points (approx the same price from eBay), this bike won mostly because of the 36 spoke wheels and the (future) fenders.

End result - hauls my fat-azz around quickly and quietly with no real complaints.

Pictures to follow ...

Six (6) Month follow-up:

1. I wore through the stock Continental tires at an alarming rate, and am now trying Schwalbe Marathons (sans fenders, not enough clearance)
2. The front rotor has been bumped up from 160 to 180mm, to make a not-bad front brake even better
3. The nylon gear in the motor failed (melted internally), but Luna Cycle fixed the motor no charge!
4. About 5 spokes in the back wheel snapped off at the hub side, and I ended up relacing the wheel with DT brand spokes
5. Since the highest failure point has been wheel-related, I now have a spare set.

Other than that, so far, so good.

[ncmired]

Bottom bracket weld cleanup - left grease to catch filings

Chain line so far - 68mm BB, 43mm at the chain ring, 41mm at the dished in sprocket, so a centered, non-dished cog is best for this application

Speed and shift sensor

Battery mount hole relocation

Initial "finished"

[AndyZ]

That chain line is glorious. How did you melt the BBSHD nylon gear? That bike looks efficient and light (physically as well as in its type of use) compared to what some BBSHD'S have to deal with (cargo or offroad bikes).

[ncmired]

I first posted this build back in 2016 over in a seemingly now defunct forum category, and decided to move it to what may be the correct place for these build threads.

That chain line is glorious. How did you melt the BBSHD nylon gear? That bike looks efficient and light (physically as well as in its type of use) compared to what some BBSHD'S have to deal with (cargo or offroad bikes).

Hi Andy - here's some photos of the gear. It failed, not on the outside, but where it's molded to the metal clutch shell:


It failed during the cooler, winter months - I don't know why - perhaps the clutch part was slipping.

It was my first build, with the blind and somewhat dumb ideal of speed first. I did not take account about how abusive the BBSHD can be on the drivetrain at high wattage levels. I dreamed of wicked-fast speeds on the narrow, 90lbs+ tires. The relatively quick steering (and I suspect, aluminum frame) turned out to be a determent when hauling along at +30mph speeds. It's also a real handful with a heavy load of groceries.

I took the lessons learned to my second build, which is much more of a utility truck.

When my third, underway build is finished, I'll probably revisit this build. Maybe pare it down weight-wise, hang a 30AH triangle battery on it, and turn it back into a long range speedster. Maybe. Maybe participate on some more MS150 rides.

[AndyZ]

Oh OK that makes me feel better. I thought you destroyed the teeth (not sure what difference that makes lol).

As for those speeds on skinny tires. You have bigger cahones than me. I have two BBSHD's. One on 2.15's and one on 2.4's. both bikes with riser bars so my face is further away from the pavement :).

As for high amp settings, I noticed something wierd on my last ride. I have an Eggrider which allows me to instantly switch between two program settings. I had programmed in the limitless profile for the first time (although I made a few changes to the original programming which made a significant difference for me). I made one profile 10 amps for legal road use in Canada and one profile 30 amps for offroad. I couldn't tell the difference between the programming at 10 or 30 and I was riding some full-on hills offroad. I only noticed this towards the end of the ride so I really haven't tested it much, but I was honestly having a blast at 10amps and don't feel the need to go any higher (again, in that limited test). I don't even think it
was a fault in the Eggrider because I ran a different profile at 10amps previously and it sucked compared to the 30a version.

[ncmired]

I picked up an Eggrider display, but haven't tried it out on the road yet. It may go on build #3.

[AndyZ]

Oh cool. It took me a little bit to get it dialed in and programming well, but I love it. It enables me to rapidly make changes to the programming on the fly so I could get the bike dialed in quickly. What would have taken me weeks of (making time for) back and forth to the house happened all on one ride.

Are you completely satisfied with your programming? I am so on fire for the limitless with the few changes I made to it. I would be interested to see if someone else like it, and especially if it functioned very well at 10amps for someone other than me.

[ncmired]

This build is no more, as most of the parts were stripped and applied to a Salsa Marrakesh frameset build, here.

[Cezar]

[QUOTE=ncrkd;n81681]First build for me, and it was pretty straight forward once I came to the understanding that, with the off-the-shelf parts currently available, BBSHD + Shimano Nexus / Alfine != Gates Centertrack Belt. I am a former work commuter, but stopped when my health let go (two kidney transplants) - I need to get back on the bike for the exercise / mental release.

Bike - 2016 Priority Eight, size "medium" (19")
Motor package - Luna Bafang BBSHD, color display, cable brake levers, Shark battery case

Changes to the frame consisted of:

1. cleaning up a little over-weld within the 68mm bottom bracket tube with a curved hand file
2. grinding down the bottom down tube cable bracket/QUOTE

Was the reason for the destruction of the nylon ring not too small 18T rear rib and associated with too low cadence? I ask because I was 46/18 and change to 46/22 - already several times and it seems that 46/22 is much safer for the nylon wheel and for Alfin8 .. Tonning requires a slightly longer cadence in individual gears.

[ncmired]

Was the reason for the destruction of the nylon ring not too small 18T rear rib and associated with too low cadence? I ask because I was 46/18 and change to 46/22 - already several times and it seems that 46/22 is much safer for the nylon wheel and for Alfin8 .. Tonning requires a slightly longer cadence in individual gears.

Hi - I really don't know positively what caused the nylon gear to fail, and Luna repaired the drive and returned the defective gear to me without comment.

Here's my speculation - since 1.) it didn't fail in the usual way (outer teeth stripping), and 2.) it failed during the cooler months, I suspect that the inner one-way clutch was slipping, heating up the bonding between the nylon and the metal casing.

Also - the gearing intent on this bike was for commuting to work as fast as the bike could go (approaching 50kph) - battery be damned, so it was pushed hard - spokes broke, chains pulled apart, etc.

[Mishinn_Control]

May I ask why you dumped the Gates belt drive? Also, how do you feel the Shimano IGH held up to the BBSHD punishment? I am building a 2010 Trek Sawyer with a BBSHD and contemplated a belt drive. After reading your post, I have second guessed that as a chain is certainly easier to come by and cheaper by a long shot! However, I am still concerned about lifespan of the chain (This is my first ebike). Any info you (or anyone else) can provide would be greatly appreciated.

[ncmired]

Hi, thanks for your post - the belt line cannot be made to work on a BBSHD to the Alfine/Nexus 8-speed with off the shelf parts. Maybe with the Nexus 3-speed which is another 6mm out, but I've not made the measurements. Definitely with the SA CS-R[F-K]3 hub, using a single cog and a spacer kit.

Years ago I saw a picture of a belt drive BBS02 to an Alfine 8-speed (Spot Brand Ajax) but couldn't get any of the dimension/build particulars..

I've got two BBSHD powered Shimano Alfine 8-speed hub bikes now, and they're easily the nicest shifting bikes I have. I wish my Rohloff shifted as nicely. It doesn't grind or hiccup, it's just a little clumsy to shift, possibly because of the dual cable design. All of my IGH bikes have shift sensors, and I generally only shift up one gear at a time.

To me, unless you buy the bike engineered and equipped with a belt (and they've taken the gear ratio experimenting hit), it's just not worth it - you've probably seen the relative cost and availability of the belt components too - yikes! Then there's the "has to be perfectly aligned" PITA and that a belt can't be repaired on the road (other than carrying a complete spare) - screw it!

I use Connex 1/8 inch 108 chains ($14-$18), and consider them a wear item like tires and brake pads - to be tossed with no hesitation. I also have a couple of the Park mini chain tools and a some short lengths of links.