2019 Crust Evasion, BBS02 or BBSHD, Shimano Alfine 8 IGH

[ncmired]

This will be a frame-up, spokes-up build, using a medium sized Crust Evasion frame:

Initial Specs: BBSHD 68mm motor with the Eclipse 42 chain ring on a 73mm bottom bracket, should end up with a 51ish mm chain line. I'd have used a BBS02 motor on this build but the Alfine IGH demands a tight chain line. If only Luna made a BBS02 Eclipse 2-piece chain ring ...

UPDATE: The chain line for the Lekkie BBS02 40 tooth ring, mounted flat (no chain ring or motor spacers), on a 73mm BB measures 48mm, so that's the motor I'm using for now. For reference, the Lekkie 42 tooth ring doesn't come in as close - it's probably out at 54mm or so in the same situation.

UPDATE #2: The Lekkie 40 tooth is a wonder of "tightness" - it tucks so tight to the left that it won't clear the master link on an 1/8 inch chain (ticks the outer chain guard). So, I've set the chain up "endless".

Otherwise, the specs and retro silver color components are:

• steel frame tubes, fattish tire clearance with a narrowish Q
• adjustable, replaceable 135mm rear dropouts with an inboard (within the frame triangle) disk caliper mount
• 17AH downtube tray-mount removable battery
• BBS02 mid drive
• Lekkie 160mm crank arms
• Lekkie 40 tooth chain ring
• MKS quick-release pedals
• Shimano Alfine 8 IGH with a shift sensor - very nice shifting and just enough ratio
• 1/8 inch chain
• 21T 1/8 Sturmey Archer rear sprocket, dish facing out
• 26 by 2.35 Schwalbe Fat Franks tires
• Velocity Blunt 35 disc rims
• TRP Spyre cable brake calipers
• Nitto flat bars

I considered randonneur bars, but the resultant control issues aren't worth the cost.

[ncmired]

Ok, it's finished ... Next!

[tommie]

Great build, looks good, nice you don`t have to use a tensioner there.
I have a similar setup on an old mtb frame. You say you have a 24T Sturmey Archer rear sprocket? That SA fits on the Alfine hub ok?
I could only get a Nexus type to fit on there.

[ncmired]

Hi, thanks for the note. Yes, the Sturmey Archer 24 tooth. HSL-876 1/8 chromed sprockets have fit on my Alfine and Nexus 3 and 8 speed hubs, no issue, using the Shimano square edge retaining ring. It's an exact fit, so everything has to be clean and no burrs.

I buy the sprockets on eBay for $10-ish.

[ncmired]

I re-geared up a little to a 21 tooth sprocket, positioning the 1:1 5th gear at the flat ground, motor RPM topping out sweet spot. Eighth gear won't be useful - oh well. 1st gear is low enough to not tax the motor, staying well within the rated power on steep hills. The road speeds are approx:

[Cezar]

I will start with the cadence speed - so it is not higher than 70 rpm, and more often closer to 60 rpm. Definitely rather flat. I have 28 "wheels and Alfine 8. I use the factory sprocket in the front, i.e. 46t, I tried 18t in the back - it was difficult to drive only in the fastest 8th gear, but it was possible with this cadence - the speed is about 38 km / h. With these ratios, i.e. 46 / 18 (gear ratio 2,555), the transmission becomes more usable - I manage to use much more gears more often. When I changed the rear gear to 22t - I started to use only 6 gears rarely, and more often only 7 and 8, I hear you use 40/24 gears , on 26 "wheels - it seems that you are standing still or just using your thumb. Even a 40/21 gear ratio seems to be useless. What speeds do you use. I usually drive at a traveling speed of 25-28 km / h - more can be done but it's hard to keep up with the cadence. This speed in gears 46/18 can be kept in 7th gear, and in gears 46/22 to 8. When I go to the mountains I will probably put on 46/22 (gear 2.09) to make it easier for the engine and me. So that I do not quite understand gear ratios such as 40/21. I also have problems with my knees (2 operations after a ski injury) and I can't press too hard on the pedals.

[ncmired]

My terrain is mixed with some nasty hills, so I've geared the two Evasion / BBS02 builds very low. I also use the throttle too much.

Speed wise this bike cruises (throttle only) at 33kmh in the 1:1 gear (fifth). On level ground this means that the motor is maxed out RPM-wise and sipping about 200-300 watts. You can feel the motor clutch engaging and disengaging softly.

My 70 year old sister rides the bike in 7-8 gear, in assist 1, to get a good workout - she manages about 27KMH doing this. She's a "stomper", or low cadence rider.

This is a BBS02, which doesn't have the grunt the BBSHD does. I wanted lighter weight, cooler running, long range, and greater component longevity - hence the real low gearing (although upped a little on this bike from 24 to 21).

[ncmired]

This build is no more - everything was stripped and applied to other builds. Don't know what I'll end up doing with the frameset - maybe an analog build (which I've got the parts to do on hand).

[yds]

Question about the chainline you had on this build. With the 73mm BB and the 40T Lekkie ring, was it a perfect chainline? Or good enough? I'm currently looking to convert my Surly Troll with the BBS02 kit. I've dry-fit the motor and it looked to me like even with an 11mm offset of the Lekkie (which I haven't ordered yet), that the chainline is still off. Were you running any special cog on the Alfine? Mine is a standard 16T shimano cog.

[ncmired]

Hi, welcome to the forum - it's nice to see another Alfine build.

As mentioned, this build was torn down, but most of the parts went over onto a step-thru Evasion. which has the same rear frame dimensions as this frame and the same 73mm BB. I measured the front chain line - 49mm ( (29mm seat post diameter / 2) + from the side of the seat tube out 34.5mm to the center of the Lekkie 40 chainring). My components are:

• Lekkie 40 tooth chain ring with included 2mm spacer
• Connex 108 1/8 inch chain
• Sturmey Archer 1/8 offset (to the right) rear sprocket (approx. 49mm rear chain line)
• Lekkie left offset / right straight crank arms

Visually, the chainline looks perfect and there appears to enough clearance between the chain and the controller cover, so I probably could have left off the spacer. But, I found that on some builds the chain can "waggle" a little too close to the motor and cut a mild groove (via the chain pins).

I've standardized using the same brand chain across my fleet, but in IMO the 1/8 width chains are not really needed with the milder BBS02. I've also standardized on the SA 1/8 sprockets, which are a tight fit on the Shimano hubs.

I mentioned the Lekkie crank arms because left side crank arm / ankle clearance is sometimes an issue with the BBS02, which has a shorter spindle than the BBSHD. I eyeballed approx. 20mm from the left crank arm tip to the corresponding stay. The right side clearance is not usually a problem. I've stopped using the Lekkie crank arms and now use much less expensive, but still nicely made Shimano STEPS FC-E5010 crank arms ($30 via eBay).

For a 73mm versus 68mm BB comparison, my two Neutrino BBS02 builds have 68mm BBs and their chainline is slightly too inset up front, which is almost unheard of in the BBS world.

On measurements, I've tried to make a spreadsheet calculator to pre-guess, but I think some of the available online measurements are off a touch. For example Luna's BBSHD chainring chart is slightly off, as it measures to the edge of the ring, not to the ring's chain line.

Hope the above helps, and good luck with your build.

[yds]

Thanks so much for the detailed info! With the price of the Lekkie 40T set being north of $210CAD with shipping, I wanted to get as much confirmation as I could before pulling the trigger. Now if I could only find it with a black motor cover, rather than red which is what most places seem to stock, it would be ideal.

[73Eldo]

Mmmmmm steel frame. Nice and comfy.

Is that just a 205 rotor up front? It looks huge.

[mrpelican]

ncmired You mentioned the Connex chain, but in some of your build pictures it looks like you've used a KMC chain with the Lekkie 40T also. Is that a KMC Z510HX?

I'm curious because that chainring doesn't work with some KMC chains, and they don't have a complete list of which ones do and don't work. I got an e101 and it doesn't fit.

[ncmired]

ncmired You mentioned the Connex chain, but in some of your build pictures it looks like you've used a KMC chain with the Lekkie 40T also. Is that a KMC Z510HX?

I'm curious because that chainring doesn't work with some KMC chains, and they don't have a complete list of which ones do and don't work. I got an e101 and it doesn't fit.

I don't recall which particular model KMC chain it is in the picture - sorry. Too long ago. The bike no longer has that chain or IGH.

The Lekkie 40T ring can be very tight when new and with a new chain (Connex, KMC, whatever), and I think it may be ring machining tolerances related to the wide tooth width. They break in pretty fast - which is good as it's my favorite of all the available BBS rings. One was so bad, I "kissed" the side of the gear teeth with a flat file while free running the motor (no chain).

On BBS02 builds (with the 40 & 42 Lekkie rings), I have on and off used various KMC 8 and 9-speed chains without any particular consistency on IGH bikes, but usually initiated on my derailleur builds.

On my first build I had some sort of 3/32 KMC on a stock BBSHD / IGH bike, and the chain(s) pulled apart on my commutes several times. That's when I started using 1/8 chains, settling eventually on the Connex 108 - which has yet to fail, even on my high-power BBSHD Ludicrous V2 Controller bikes.

My suspicion is that the BBS02 and the Photon don't hurt chains as much. I continue to occasionally use various KMC 3/32 chains on lower-grunt builds, when I can't get Connex chains in a timely manner or at a reasonable price. But I change chains often - as soon as I see droop on the IGH bikes. I need to buy a chain wear gauge one of these days.

[mrpelican]

I ended up picking up a KMC S1 chain and it fits fine on the chainring. It seems like if you want to play it safe with single speed chains, just get one that looks basic. The fancy looking ones that are trying to be extra strong for ebikes, ironically, seem to be the ones that don't work with the Lekkie 40T.

[ncmired]

Apologies, mrpelican - my last post was, shall we say, less than helpful. So here's the bike in its current iteration, with a Lekkie 40T and a filthy KMC X9.93 (KMC023?) 9-speed chain:

If you're having issues with a new Lekkie 40 chainring/chain combination where the chain skates on the top of the teeth and/or won't settle down on the tooth pockets properly, see the filing comment I added to the previous post.

The bike has a Microshift 9-speed super-short derailleur with a minimal chain length and is an early "run what ya brung" cargo bike experiment using a Crust Clydesdale fork. The front crate holds 3 upright paper grocery bags, and the rear panniers hold slightly more than one bag each. Not the best bike for the job as there's no proper dual-leg kickstand plate, so the fork might get moved to my high-speed Marrakesh - unless I can cobble up some plate-like mount.

As of today, the build specs are as follows:

• Crust Evasion medium frameset - steel frame tubes, fattish tire clearance with a narrowish Q, adjustable, replaceable 135mm rear dropouts with an inboard (within the frame triangle) disk caliper mount
• Crust Clydesdale front fork
• 17-25AH downtube tray-mount removable battery
• BBS02B mid drive, with the BBS-fw open source firmware
• Lekkie 160mm crank arms
• Lekkie 40 tooth chain ring
• KMC X9.93 9-speed chain
• microSHIFT 11-38T 9-speed cassette
• 20 by 2.40 Schwalbe Super-Moto X front tire on a Salt Plus Summit rim
• 27.5 by 2.35 Schwalbe PICK-UP rear tire on a Velocity Cliffhanger rim
• TRP Spyre cable brake calipers
• Soma flat bars
• Portland Design Works rear rack
• Banjo Brothers Market Panniers
• generic plastic front crate

[ncmired]

Well - now that that unpleasantry is over ...

I've been using this bike to pick up my weekly grocery reload, and it's been working very well. I'm not much for supermarket aisle walking and gawking, so I order online before going and wait in the pick-up line. The cost is pretty much known up front, and I know the inventory, so I work out where to stow it and balance the load in my mind while waiting for the store rep to roll it out.

Part of the grocery ride is on a 55mph two-lane road with an abysmal and narrow shoulder, but the bike tracks well even fully loaded, and with the small front wheel - just a touch of nervousness when hand-signaling and steering one-handed.

Onto the unpleasantries: on the last run, I picked up a big & long (sheathing?) staple, probably on the way back. The sealant slowed down the leak, but didn't stop it, even after pulling out the staple and airing the tube up, but at least it got me back home. Tube fix time - in the comforts of home, and with the wheel resting on a round "workstand" trashcan. I unseated one side of the tire and was met by, how to put this politely, sealant ejaculate, fully covering the tube and inside the tire. This slippery mess would have been so much fun to deal with on the side of the road.

No, I didn't end up cleaning and patching the tube - into a plastic bag it went, along with the paper towels used to clean up the mess, and the latex gloves. I've not dealt with flats on these tubes before and was imagining that there would be at least a little mess to deal with and localized - not what I discovered. What fun, now I know to carry gloves, paper towels, and a plastic bag on the bikes that have these tubes.

[73Eldo]

I don't doubt there are areas people ride that have just the right(or wrong) conditions that its well worth it but luckily that's not where I ride. The mess is what has kept me from trying it. If I had more issues maybe it would be worth the trouble but in the last 3 years I have only had 4 flats. 2 of them I think were a defect/miss application so those really don't count. Of the other two one for sure would not have been helped by sealant. The other one I would guess like yours if i was lucky maybe it would have slowed it down enough to maybe get home. They were both caused my small sticks. The one I know would not have worked the stick went all the way through and came out of of the lightning holes in the rim.