Mid drive motor on a Vintage Raleigh Sport Three Speed Sturmey Archer rear hub?

[Antonella]

Is it feasible and safe to do this?

My Raleigh is made of steel with a three speed sturmey archer hub and stainless steel lever brakes.

My requirements are:

Speed up to 20 mph or less because of the regular brakes and about a ten mile range.


Do mid motors fit the English Raleigh standard of 26 tpi or does it not matter?

thank you!

[73Eldo]

I think you would be alright. 20mph may be a little scary with rim brakes that old. A mid drive like a BBS02 doesn't use the bikes threads it just passes through and clamps on the outside with its own nuts. Someone recently here did a 500w 36v BBS02. I didn't know they still sold those but if they do and they are a lot cheaper than the more common 750w 48/52v that may be a reasonable way to go since you for sure don't want to be going too fast on that sort of bike.

[Antonella]

Oh, that's good that it will fit the bottom bracket.
I have seen reports that the motor breaks free from the grippy washer that presses into the bb. Some places sell a torque bar which makes sense to help prevent that for happening. Thanks you for your advice.

[TNC]

I wonder if this bike would be a good fit for one of those TSDZ2, torque sensing kits? I think I have that name right? That bike doesn't need a heap of power, I'm thinking, and I'm guessing it won't be used for mountain biking, so a little loss of ground clearance won't be critical. I agree with 73Eldo that if you use a Bafang, the BBS02 is the max that I'd go with.

[Antonella]

Yes, I think that motor with the torque sensing will put less stress on the chain and Sturmey Archer rear internally geared hub that is at least fifty years old! Good advice!

[Antonella]

I also need to know if your can put bigger tires like the Schwinn Cruiser tires (26 x 1 3/4") on a Raleigh Sport rim and not interfere with the fenders.
thanky Panky Spanky!

[Retrorockit]

I would look before you leap at the TSDZ2. It makes a nice bike but has some reliability issues. Overheating is one,
Here is a thread on them.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1445726#p1445726

Some people claim to use them without issues, others break parts and burn them up.
I see it as a motor designed to be 350W and when sold at 750W it's stretched pretty thin.

[TNC]

I would look before you leap at the TSDZ2. It makes a nice bike but has some reliability issues. Overheating is one,
Here is a thread on them.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1445726#p1445726

Some people claim to use them without issues, others break parts and burn them up.
I see it as a motor designed to be 350W and when sold at 750W it's stretched pretty thin.

I agree. Just out of curiosity, I've kept up with that long running thread. That motor sounds like such a great idea at a good price with torque sensing, but it seems to have more than its share of problems. While I suspect the OP's application here doesn't involve off road riding, that motor hangs way too far down for comfort for me. I'd think a Bafang would be better overall.

[73Eldo]

I was curious about the torque sensing and for some applications the ability to use a coaster brake could be an advantage but there didn't seem to be anywhere near the 'aftermarket' support and multiple vendors like Bafang has especially in the USA. If I need any Bafang part right now in 2021 even with bike boom pandemic times in the USA I have about a 90% chance of finding someone with it in stock. It may not be my preferred vendor or price but I have been able to find someone that had it in stock. I didn't see anything like that fort the TSDZ and for sure didn't see people like Luna and Lekkie making 'hot rod' upgrade parts for them.

[Retrorockit]

I owna TSDZ2, and a BBSHD. I don't find the torque sensing to be a huge advantage over the BBSHD with a throttle. The theory is that the TS feature is more "natura"l. The harder you pedal the more assist you get. I'm not sure there is anything particularly "natural" about that. Automatic maybe, but natural not so much.

[AZguy]

Can't agree more

Stewing on torque sensing I'm concluding that if you have a ton of MTB time, move to electric MTB and nearly all your time on two wheels has been MTB you are more likely to favor torque sensing

If you come from primarily riding motos to a mid-drive electric bike with a throttle for fine, fast control (where the throttle is used while pedaling, not instead of) you are more likely to favor no torque sensor

There's a ton of electric bike personality in between - those are two ends of a spectrum

I'm definitely in the latter camp and for what it's worth I mostly use the PAS and just throttle when I'm looking to override PAS for fine fast control of the power delivered - ridden torque sensor bikes and hated them

[TNC]

I owna TSDZ2, and a BBSHD. I don't find the torque sensing to be a huge advantage over the BBSHD with a throttle. The theory is that the TS feature is more "natura"l. The harder you pedal the more assist you get. I'm not sure there is anything particularly "natural" about that. Automatic maybe, but natural not so much.

That's an interesting take. I don't own a TS emtb, but I work at a shop where I get to ride a bunch of them...Trek and Specialized. We even have a Trek Rail 7 demo that we can ride any time. I own a very competent MTB with a BBSHD set up for trail. I find the Trek and Specialized emtb's and even the Electra cruiser ebikes to be extremely intuitive in how they deliver power so seamlessly according to the level you have dialed into the power select.

Now, after a fair amount of programming and getting accustomed to my MTB with BBSHD, I find it quite close to the absolutely predictable power delivery of the Spec and Trek motors...very close but not perfect. However, it is so close that I'm not that motivated to get a Spec or Trek emtb even at shop cost. The BBSHD has the extra power I like, and the throttle is a feature that makes its occasional use absolutely pleasant and even saving my bacon in gnarly situations once in awhile. The throttle is what I'd miss most on the Trek and Spec bikes for off road...well...along with the missing money I'd have to cough up for the level of suspension I have on my MTB.

[Retrorockit]

I added a throttle (not finished yet) to the TSDZ2 bike. I too find it a safety feature. But the TSDZ2 rations throttle% also. Probably to save the flimsy rubber gear. IDK about the Bosch, and Yamaha E bike stuff. But the TSDZ2 would be a nice choice except for it's general lack of quality. A problem the 2x as powerful BBSHD doesn't have.
I work on the TSDZ2, I ride the BBSHD. Of course part of this is because I built the TSDZ2 in a small frame for guest riders, and with the COVID thing that hasn't been very useful. But inventing a cooling mod, and replacing the motor controlller to add a throttle are things the BBS didn't need

[Retrorockit]

A TSDZ2 would be perfect except I can't bring myself to recommend it due to reliability issues.One of the lower powered BBS series would be just fine.

[Dutch Bob Bike Builder]

Hello Antonella: Don't know if you want to hear this?? It's a lovely bike that you have, but a good answer will be, LEAVE IT LIKE THAT!! DON'T put a electric motor on it, you're brakes are no way suitable for this, even you're wheels are not capable for that, they are old and the spokes will brake because the extra torque they have to deal with. Further more, the alignment of the chain on this bike will be incorrect and the rear wheel doesn't have a proper chain tensioners to hold the wheel straight . Correct all those things to proper spec's, before putting a electric motor on it, but you will see that it not worth with this bike.
Leave the bike like it is, cleane it, make the bike work properly, may try to sell it and buy a bike that is suitable to make it electric.

[Spinnanz]

If you look on your rear hub, it will have the last 2 digits of the year it was made, ie 73 = 1973.

Your bike looks to be the female version of mine. It pained me to lose the 3 speed rear hub on my Raleigh however my bike is almost 100% flat road commuting so the lack of gears isn't bad. Mines got a max speed of 25mph, but the new 700c alloy rims keep it all pretty smooth.

Originally I wanted to use a front hub, and in reality I'd still liked to have but the rear electric hub set came up at a really good price.

[Antonella]

My bike is from the sixties. I have decided to use a seventies era Raleigh of the same style because I discovered the front fork was slightly bent.
I like the fat tires in your bike! Amazing that they fit.

[thetov]

Hi Antonella: regarding the tire question, your Raleigh Sports wheels take tire size ISO 590, also labeled 650A or EA3. Although both Schwinn and Raleigh use tires called 26" x 1-3/8", they aren't actually the same size.

With your project a good upgrade would be switching to alloy wheels, which would markedly improve braking. Whether or not your front hub is in decent shape for re-use, and if not, finding a hub to fit the narrow front fork spacing, would be the issue.

(Raleigh quality started to change in the early 60's. By the 70's the Sports' front hubs were not great and today they are usually not in good condition, as I discovered on my 1973 Sports :-/.)