Giant 2016 Stance 2, BBSHD: Machining No Longer Required

[Bones]

11-6-2016 UPDATE: Avoiding the Machining I did on my build
The machining of the Bottom Bracket (BB) Adapter and BBSHD Aluminum "Stator Housing" can be avoided.

Avoiding Stator Housing Milling:
Buy two additional "Triangle Brackets" from Luna. (I call them "Y-Brackets" in the report, below). Cut the ears off and use them as "biting spacers" on the non-drive side of the BBSHD. Do not use any of the standard spacers between the intact triangle bracket and the stance BB Shell. Do not use spacers of any kind on the drive side. That will wreck your chain-line. The Luna Shop came up with this slick solution.

Avoiding Bottom Bracket Adapter Lathe Turning:
Bushings are needed for the Stance BB92 bottom bracket (BB) shell. Make sure that they are flush or inset a bit into the Stance BB shell. BBSHD clamping forces need to be on the BB Shell to keep the BBSHD from flopping down.

At this time I can't recommend the BB30 X FSA adapter I used, unless you turn-down the diameters in a lathe as I did (see below). Here are 2 other options for bushings:

1) Use the China BB92 to FSA Adapters (See original build thread, below). Grind off the flanges, so you can press them flush within the Stance BB shell. If you don't do this you end up adding space on the drive side that will probably give you chain-line headaches. Also, if the flanges are left on, the BBSHD will be clamping to the adapters and not the Stance BB Shell, imparting a twisting force on the bushings. They could slip. It's not worth experimenting. For chain-line reasons, I consider grinding off the Drive Side flange mandatory. Might as well do the non-drive side while you are at it. Loctite these bushings in place.
2) Talk Luna into selling you the custom adapter they build for their Stance 2 Build.

END 11-6-16 Update: Original Build Thread Below. Have Fun!
_________________


BBSHD/Shark Pack, 2016 Giant Stance 2 Build

$850 2016 Giant Stance 2, 27.5” Wheel Donor Bike ($750 + $100 Shipping), Ebay Used Demo

$1,454 100mm BBSHD Kit from Luna Cycles , with Adders and Shipping

• 52V, 14 Ah GA Shark Pack
• DPC-14 Color Display
• Gear Change Sensor
• 42T Leki Bling Ring
• 3 Amp, 52V Charger
• Luna Wrench
• Universal Thumb Throttle

$21 BB30 to FSA Adapter, Cut in Half and Lathe Modified
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...UTF8&psc=1

$12 BB92/86 to FSA Adapter, Not Used (Probably the Right Part, but Lead-Time too Long)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301825746922

Machining Costs
12-Pack Corona, 2 Large Pizzas, Loaning 2 Alpacka Packrafts for the month I'm out of the U.S.

Total: $2,350

• My First Build
• Impressive Donor Bike for a “Low End” Full Suspension Mountain Bike.
• Added an M5 Rivnut to frame to better anchor the Shark Battery Pack
• Needed a Lathe to get BB30 Aluminum Bottom Bracket Adapter sized to press-fit Stance BB92 Shell
• End milling operation on BBSHD Aluminum Stator Cover to get BBSHD Bracket to fit tight against Stance bottom bracket shell.
• The finished e-bike blows me away! An absolute JOY to ride.

First Build:
I'm 57 and have been an on and off bike-nut for my whole life. The last 20 years was all about single-track and my modified 1999 Specialized Enduro Pro FSR (now sporting a Rohloff hub). I worked as a mechanic in a couple of bike shops, and I just finished-up a 30 year Engineering career. I love taking things apart and building them back up. The “problems” I ran into with this project just made it more fun.

Donor Bike:
2016 Giant Stance 2, Large Frame, 27.5” Wheels, used by LunaCycle for Complete Bike Offering.

I love this bike.

Year-round riding in wet, muddy Seattle Area is hard on bikes with lots of parts. Used Full Suspension bikes in the $500 to $800 range will likely need a lot of work. I was thrilled to stumble onto the Stance on Ebay, selling for ½ List Price from a bike shop in a dry part of the world (Utah). It is a lightly-used Demo Bike. Reviews of the Stance are very good. Reviewers deem the frame worthy of upgrades.

Luna uses this bike as a Donor for one of their Complete E-Bike offerings, so everything should fit.

First Ride (as a Gravity Bike) was impressive. I hit a local single-track climb “Itsabitch” and rode the whole trail clean. 20 years trying, I've never been able to do that. The Stance is 1 lb lighter than my Enduro Pro. I guess my Enduro really is a dinosaur.

Shark Battery Mount:
You can mount the Shark battery bracket on just the two factory bottle cage M5 rivnuts, by drilling a whole in the aluminum section of the Shark mounting bracket. I did that and decided to add a third M5 rivnut to give me a bomber 3-fastener mount. The fully-mounted bracket includes the rubber gaskets, longer Stainless Steel (SS) button head fasteners, and SS washers at the bracket's plastic mounting holes. The bottle cage bolts have blue LocTite. BOMBER.





Image Shows the Additional Hole needed for the Aluminum portion of the Shark Mounting Plate, and the Custom Third Rivnut


Rivnut:
I didn't know what a rivnut was before starting this project. The minute I learned, I wanted to drill a hole in the Stance frame. The local bike shop provided a couple of M5 rivnuts and YouTube provided the education: How to Install Rivnut Without a Special Tool. Practice was ugly. Installation on the frame went well. I learned:

• A torque arm is critical, to keep the rivnut from spinning during expansion
• M5 X 0.8 is a tiny thread, so it's not hard to strip when cranking on the tiny nut. Use stainless steel or hardened steel nut and bolt. Grease the nut and bolt threads.
• Make sure your bolt is engaging all the thread in the rivnut.
• On the verge of stripping the bolt during expansion, I didn't crank until a marked increase in torque. I looked down the hole a few times as the thread was pulled to the surface. I eventually decided: good enough.

In the middle of rivnut practice I researched the special tools. Turns out it's doubtful any would fit in the tight space I had: frame top tube interference. No reason to delay. Time to drill!

I have a Milwaukee M8 right angle drill. I modified two drill bits for a pilot-hole and big hole. For the big hole I cut off both ends of the bit (Milwaukee M8 “Dremel” tool) and abused my Drill Doctor bit sharpening tool, to put a point on it. This all worked great. I got lucky and the rivnut was perfectly located. The bottle cage fasteners got blue LocTite. No LocTite on my rivnut bolt.





Milwaukee M8 Angle Drill with Custom Drill Bit





DIY Rivnut Expansion Tool for Confined Install (Bike Top Tube Interference)



Bottom Bracket Shell Adapter:
Luna has a build write-up on the BBSHD/2016 Giant Stance 2, with a link to a BB30 X BSA adapter that you cut in half and press into each end of the Stance's Bottom Bracket Shell. http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...52v-shark-pack

After a lot of confusion, including a few back and forth emails with Luna, I concluded that there is no way the 42mm BB30 adapter was going to fit into my Stance's 41mm ID , BB92 shell. Luna steered me to another link to get the adapters that should work: http://www.ebay.com/itm/301825746922 I ordered them, but – 5 to 6 week lead-time from China. No way. I'm in the middle of a project! Two large pizza's later, a buddy-with-lathe had both ends of the the cut-in-half BB30 X BSA adapter turned down to 41.06 mm, and press-fit flush into the Stance bottom bracket shell. I'll be wiring in NO TIME. Not so fast....





YIKES! No way BB30 Adapter was going to fit in my BB92 Shell


BBSHD Stator Cover Milling:

10-5-16 EDIT -- No Need to Mill the Stator Cover. Scroll Down to See the Luna Shop's Solution: Cut off the ears of a "triangle bracket" (what I call a "Y-shaped bracket" in this build thread), to create a "biting-spacer". Two biting-spacers and one intact triangle bracket and you are in business!

The 2-bolt, Y-shaped bracket that keeps the BBSHD from flopping down needs to bight into the bike frame's bottom bracket shell to do its job. Every last spacer in the Luna kit is needed to fit the 100mm BBSHD to my Stance's BB92 bottom bracket shell. With that big of a spacer requirement, no way would the bracket fit without having a bunch of slippery aluminum spacers between it and the shell. With a case of Corona in hand, I headed back to my buddy's shop. We debated fabricating an elaborate spacer/bracket fabrication, or milling down the bracket mounts on the BBSHD. I made the executive decision to mill the BBSHD. To avoid a complete tear-down, he managed to fixture the entire unit under his tiny vertical milling machine. He milled off 11mm of aluminum at each of the two mounting holes. The BBSHD then mounted onto the bike perfectly. Not much meat is left on one mount, but I'm convinced it will be fine. Stay tuned.





SMR (Some Machining Required)

With the Lock Ring cranked as tight as I can, with the Luna Wrench, the BBSHD is pinching the Stance's bottom bracket shell hard on both ends, with no slippery spacers in-between. The only thing that would make the build better is a socket for the steel lock ring, so I could crank on it more. I used blue LocTite on both the steel and aluminum ring.





Machined Aluminum Stator Cover, so Y-Shaped Retaining Bracket Fits Tight Against Bottom Bracket Shell





Second Machined Mount Leaves Much More Meat for the Second Retaining Bracket Mounting Screw



Smooth Sailing:
Bench Test, Wiring, Shrink Tubing, Cable Routing, gear-change-sensor-install all went well. Everything worked without a hitch. I went with the Anderson Connector between the Shark mounting bracket and the BBSHD because I didn't have an anti-spark XT90 connector. I have a very nice Anderson crimping tool that does a beautiful job on the 45 Amp connectors. I now have an XT90 anti-spark connector, but I'm not in a big hurry to change it. The normal (non-emergency) make/break connection between the Shark battery and BBSHD is at the shark base plate, not at this connector. I do not have sensors on my brake levers. That could change. I'm trying to keep the bike reasonably stealth.

TEST RIDE:
WAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!It is fun fun fun fun fun! Bike trails, singletrack, tarmac, and a 3,000' logging road climb to a high trout lake. That's just some of the riding I did before leaving the bike behind while I'm out of the U.S. untill mid-October. Endless possibilities!

When I get back from Ecuador....

• Spoke Tie the rear wheel (old school wiring and soldering at crosses)
• Upgraded E-Bike Rated Rear Tire (May go Stan's Tubeless)
• Mudhugger Long front and 29er Rear Fenders
• Lights.
• Change the law so that when I have to ride on a busy road, I can ride against traffic when I feel like it. I don't like cars sneaking up on me from behind. I haven't ridden busy roads in years. I'm in the country with great singletrack, converted railroad grade trails, and quite country roads in my backyard. The RANGE this bike has is luring me into the scary big city!

Conclusion:
Just a fantastic bike. I've had several friends ride it and they are grinning from ear-to-ear when they get back.
The Complete Bike from LunaCycle is a Fantastic Deal (but you don't get all the fun from building it yourself).

[Jackson]

Bones - this is a fantastic write-up! Wow! I just went through the same experience with a 2014 Trance 3. While I have plenty of access to beer and pizza, I don't have an easy hook-up to a lathe. I found out the hard way that the BB30 adapter would not work cleanly on the PF41 BB shell - almost cracked my BB shell in the process. Despite this I pressed the BB30 adapter in as tight as possible (used the green loctite) and it's totally stuck in there but I had the adapter sticking out on both ends of the bottom bracket. I resolved to cut off as much of the adapter on the drive side to get the Luna Eclipse as close as possible to the chain stay. On the non-drive side, I left it alone - which worked fine since it essentially acted as a spacer for my 110 mm BBSHD. I also loved learning about putting a hole in the aluminum portion of the battery cradle. Right now I have the sharkpack inverted and secured by one bolt and a velcro strap. I'll try to do your set-up (but probably without the 3rd rivet (and still use the velcro strap). Again - nice write-up.

[Bones]

Oops. My bad. I am a couple of thousand miles from my bike and got turned around: Drive/Non-Drive sides. The best anyone can do with chainline is make sure their adapter is flush with the bottom bracket shell on the drive side. I might as well delete my posts, to avoid confusion in the record.

[Eric Luna]

NO worries Bones... enjoy your trip.... this is how us builders all learn and its not possible to get it all right the first time. When you get back let me know if you want to delete any posts if you want to redo any of the thread....we can also delete other users posts and any of my posts to alleviate confusion....just pm me when you get back. We never did a full build report on this bike...just an initial report where i put some second hand findings..... we should have did a full build report on this bike sooner...my bad.

[Jackson]

Bones - I think you nailed it. I went back to look at my build pics and the bb30 adapter. If I were to do things over again on getting the BBSHD to fit a PF41 BB, I would do the following: Get the BB30 adapter (either in 68 or 72mm length); using a metal strap as a guide, cut the adapter in half, cut off the drive side 42mm flanged side of the adapter, press fit the drive side adapter flush with the bottom bracket with plenty of green loctite (maybe even red loctite), press fit the non-drive side half into the bottom bracket to the point where the 41/42 ramped flange jams into the non-drive side BB, insert bbshd flush with the BB and only add spacers if needed to clear the eclipse from the chainstay, make the triangle mounting bracket flush with non-drive side adapter that sticks out of the bottom bracket - and use washers to make a flush fitting with the bolts and mounting bracket. Done.

[g725s]

Shark Battery Mount:
You can mount the Shark battery bracket on just the two factory bottle cage M5 rivnuts, by drilling a whole in the aluminum section of the Shark mounting bracket. I did that and decided to add a third M5 rivnut to give me a bomber 3-fastener mount. The fully-mounted bracket includes the rubber gaskets, longer Stainless Steel (SS) button head fasteners, and SS washers at the bracket's plastic mounting holes. The bottle cage bolts have blue LocTite. BOMBER.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]n18298[/ATTACH]

Image Shows the Additional Hole needed for the Aluminum portion of the Shark Mounting Plate, and the Custom Third Rivnut

Rivnut:
I didn't know what a rivnut was before starting this project. The minute I learned, I wanted to drill a hole in the Stance frame. The local bike shop provided a couple of M5 rivnuts and YouTube provided the education: How to Install Rivnut Without a Special Tool. Practice was ugly. Installation on the frame went well. I learned:

• A torque arm is critical, to keep the rivnut from spinning during expansion
• M5 X 0.8 is a tiny thread, so it's not hard to strip when cranking on the tiny nut. Use stainless steel or hardened steel nut and bolt. Grease the nut and bolt threads.
• Make sure your bolt is engaging all the thread in the rivnut.
• On the verge of stripping the bolt during expansion, I didn't crank until a marked increase in torque. I looked down the hole a few times as the thread was pulled to the surface. I eventually decided: good enough.

In the middle of rivnut practice I researched the special tools. Turns out it's doubtful any would fit in the tight space I had: frame top tube interference. No reason to delay. Time to drill!

I have a Milwaukee M8 right angle drill. I modified two drill bits for a pilot-hole and big hole. For the big hole I cut off both ends of the bit (Milwaukee M8 “Dremel” tool) and abused my Drill Doctor bit sharpening tool, to put a point on it. This all worked great. I got lucky and the rivnut was perfectly located. The bottle cage fasteners got blue LocTite. No LocTite on my rivnut bolt. [ATTACH=CONFIG]n18299[/ATTACH]

Milwaukee M8 Angle Drill with Custom Drill Bit

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n18300[/ATTACH]

DIY Rivnut Expansion Tool for Confined Install (Bike Top Tube Interference)

This is a great write up Thank You. I knew there had to be these Rivnuts available, and now I know and will research further like you. There was a poster who had considered mounting a battery under the Top Tube. Do you think these Rivnuts would be strong enough to hold a heavy battery under a Top Tube? I guess since a bike shop had them, one could go the bike shop and git er done.

[Bones]

This is a great write up Thank You. I knew there had to be these Rivnuts available, and now I know and will research further like you. There was a poster who had considered mounting a battery under the Top Tube. Do you think these Rivnuts would be strong enough to hold a heavy battery under a Top Tube? I guess since a bike shop had them, one could go the bike shop and git er done.

Just now back from 9 days away from the Internet. Top tube mounting of a Shark Pack with just rivnuts would make me nervous, especially if rough logging roads and single-track is on the menu. I would do the rivnuts, so I could take advantage of the Shark Base Plate, but I would back them up with a couple of tight straps when riding, maybe backing off on the straps if confidence rises. You also want to have a solid rivnut installation, to proper expansion. If a rivnut comes loose, it will spin and you will not be able to back-out a screw without a lot of ingenuity. I found a Park Tool rivnut repair bulletin on-line, doing rivnut expansion with a loose hub and a quick release skewer. That's what a good bike shop should be able to do: get a loose rivnut tight in its hole again. The bike shop I got my two rivnuts from were from a mechanic's personal stash. When I get back to the U.S. I could track down the mechanic and find out what specific kind of rivnut he uses and post it here.

[g725s]

That would be great. Thanks so much!

[Bones]

The rivnut I used is 5mm Aluminum, like this: https://www.amazon.com/Flat-Aluminum...ustomerReviews

[Rodney64]

Bones i copied your idea with drilling in to the aluminum plate. I made a thread for it here. http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...-the-down-tube

[Bones]

To be fair, drilling the aluminum plate wasn't my idea. In his build report Eric has the bullet point: "The shark mount needs to be modified by drilling holes to fit." Thanks for the kind words!

[Sebz]

Nice build!

[Eric Luna]

Hi sorry for missing this.

I need to change our initial build report. I got the low down from our main mechanic how he gets the bbshd to fit on the giant without machining the drive.

He uses 3 of the triangle mounting brackets...and cuts 2 of them into circles.

He then is able to mount the drive in the same position as the original poster without play.

[Bones]

On the adapter....  Check out my photo, above, of my bottom bracket with the adapter.  That's how much sticks out when it's pressed in. With a 100 mm BBSHD, the only portion of the dogbone-shaped adapter needed is the 41mm diameter center (cut in half). The 42 mm diameter ends need to be cut off, along with the ramp up to 42 mm. The center portion press-fits into the BB92 shell OK, and probably retains Loctite nicely. I'll edit my build report to reveal the "no machining required" way -- highlighting those sweet biting-spacers.

[Eric Luna]

Bones thanks so much for the compliment.... i have some brillliant mechanics good at mickey mousing which we all know is good for DIY :) I have never heard anyone cutting the ears off of triangles before...our mechanic came up with that himself.

[Jackson]

The "biting-spacer" seems like a fantastic idea! I'm not sure if the Stance has the ISCG 05 mounting system - the 2014 Trance uses this. I mention this because - in order to install the BBSHD, you need to cut off two of the ISCG mounting tabs - depending on how much you cut off, you can use these tabs as anti-rotation tabs for the BBSHD. Basically - by leaving some of the material on the two mounting tabs on the frame - they prevent the motor from rotating in either direction - it's pretty slick - you end up having the motor in the lowest position on the frame and it doesn't rotate up to touch the downtube - thus, you only need to crank down on the locking rings and the need to have the triangle mounting bracket or custom biting spacer - dig into the bottom bracket gets some what relieved since the motor is already stuck in a single position on the frame.

[krygods]

Don't be surprised if that upper anchor point on the motor that you machined cracks off of the housing in the near future, you removed more that half of the material on that anchor point.

[Bones]

No doubt I'm watching that closely. We decided to go with it after speculating on the loads it will see. It doesn't see drive torque. The second fastener still has a lot of meat on it. There was no stress on it during assembly. I'm too old to do any drops or jumps with the bike. Anyway, now that we know the easy way to solve the problem, with the biting-spacers you can create from the triangle brackets, this mod need never be repeated.