Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

3 KW Ellsworth Dare Fast Bike Build Report

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    3 KW Ellsworth Dare Fast Bike Build Report

    2002 Ellsworth Dare - Fast Bike Build.

    As described in my Electric Bike .com introduction, this is my second e-bike build, but I believe will be of the most interest so it gets its build report done first.
    I came across electricbike.com and read the Project X write-up as Eric attempted to build the fastest best all round ebike ever. It was a great read and I was inspired…even when “red” from electricbike-blog teased Eric for hanging onto the Ellworth when he had all the great new machinery around.
    I found my donor bike on Kijiji
    "This legendary bike is in immaculate condition, always treated right and taken care of. Trail ridden only, no DH/massive big hits on this one, this has always been a play bike for me, I'm the original owner.

    Fully decked out with a pro build:
    Chris King headset
    Chris King fron hub
    Stratos 6o7 fork
    Romic shock
    RaceFace diablo stem
    Shimano Saint brakes
    Shimano XTR 1x9 grouppo (full set, no shortcuts here: shifter, cranks, BB, chain ring, cassette, rear derailleur)
    Shimano DX pedals
    Hadley rear hub
    Mavic D321 disc rims
    Easton Carbon Handlebar
    Easton seat post
    Flite seat


    The ad photo showed this was a serious all mountain- downhill bike….
    The bike as built was strong and was also only 32 pounds.
    From electric bike I found out about Luna and researched how to buy the BBSHD and other items I would need. I read all about chainsets and watched the part 2 video that used Project X with the eclipse so that was added to the wish list… plus tools etc.
    In the meantime, I read all of the build information on electric bike and found electric bike-blog as well and there heard about ERT’s 3kw BBSHD builds. I found those ERT 72V battery to 88V power run through the BBSHD videos and read all of the ERT build logs and became particularly interested in the phase runner build- performance was certainly available and the controller looked like it would fit unobtrusively into the Dare’s downhill frame.
    I decided this is what I wanted to build – I checked my times on the ERT site and wanted to order the kit unfortunately it always came back as sold out so I went to e-bikes.ca where ERT got the raw controller, researched there and ordered the controller, Cycle analyst and accessories.
    Next for the drives and batteries. I carefully measured the bottom bracket to confirm 73mm for the Dare, so planned to order the e-bike kits.
    With the 72 V plan I found the 72V option battery had shown up as available again on Luna so I quickly ordered the 72V battery and selected the motor and drive only BBSHD since I would be using the phase-runner controller with Cycle Analyst and throttle etc. I shipped from Luna to my daughters in Ohio so hoped all would be there in time for a planned visit. Watching the shipping notices carefully with anticipation and some trepidation (there were a few emails with Luna to see if the battery would arrive in time) I headed to Ohio – – the shipments just arrived at the UPS depot the day of my arrival, I checked the boxes before driving back to Canada see photo to the left, and almost everything was there….(except for the Luna toolkit that is.)

    I took off the BBDHD controller cover and checked what wiring and connections I would need and ordered the pig tales, waterproof crimp connectors, crimp tools etc. from Amazon and had shipped to Ohio for my next trip down. In the mean time I read lots online to find out which wires were what for the Hall connection, and PAS. In the photo of the removed controller this JST shows the Hall wiring plus a purple wire that I believe is from a motor stator temperature sensor.
    In the second photo you can see the 4 wire PAS connector on the removed controller. Of course my connections would be at the the motor end but I would have to get the same as the controller JST connectors and maintain power and signal wire separation up to the Phase runner (for Halls) and Cycle Analyst for the PAS (and optionally temperature). With the removed BBSHD controller, now I had room for my wiring connections to be inside the motor case.
    I also had to determine how to connect the phase wires as seen in this photo I had the version 2 controller with the spade connectors not the Anderson ones. You can also see where the motor side connectors are for the Hall sensors and PAS wiring. I did get some feedback after my post on the Facebook Fast Electric Bike that the spade connectors would have problems running the higher power levels I wanted to run on my BBSHD.
    With my wiring on its way I took my bike in to the LBS for bottom bracket removal…I had planned to do it myself but my Luna Tool Kit wasn’t shipped yet, so community e-bike promotion. This time the shop even had a Specialized e-bike on consignment sale in the shop…I knew my build would deliver far more performance and for at least $1000 less than the consignment pricing!
    With bottom bracket removed I can get started on the build.

    With the motor controller cover remaining off for wiring connections I first fit the Luna Eclipse chain ring with it’s one spacer below the chain wheel with bolts into the motor drive.
    Then install through the bottom bracket – using the great Luna Wrench to tighten the first nut.

    I initially fit it into the Dare with what looked like a few mm of clearance to the swing arm…I later had to remove it since with the motor torque the hi-low eclipse gears clipped the edge of the aluminum swing arm. This was later during road testing.

    Next to install the Phase Runner controller…as you can see it does fit in quite well, but the distance from motor to controller is not far so the wires will have to be trimmed and end connectors re soldered.
    For the wiring from the PAS sensor up to the cycle analyst to be mounted on the handlebars I used waterproof crimp connectors – easier and the wiring was large enough so it wouldn’t pull back out of the crimp under stress. After wiring I installed the chain on the chain ring and checked if the chain length was ok for the derailleur, it seemed to be for me, as the bike was set-up for downhill it only had one from chain ring and the chain length seems to ok with the increase from a 36T to the 42 T Eclipse. When the wiring was almost done I hooked up the advanced luna controller, put the battery inside a portable BBQ – just in case and let it charge for about 9 hours – it came out about 84 V fully charged.

    With the wiring to the controller completed it was time to set up the phase runner controller so that the motor would run properly for tuning the cycle analyst. The tuning software is available from the e-bike.ca website and runs on a Windows 10 laptop without difficulty. There is a USB connector designed to connect to both the phase runner and cycle analyst and all you have to do is plug in the USB and then check device manager to ensure it is recognized as a new com port. Remember which port as you will need this later. Mine was on COM6. Then you have to do it plug in the battery, plug the connector plug in and watch to see the phase runner software show it is connected. Then check your rear wheel will rotate freely without obstruction – either on a bike stand or as I did by having the bike upside down resting on the handlebars and seat.
    The Phase runner software provides an Auto Tune function that just needs you to approximate the KV value (i.e. motor RPM/Volts) and number of motor poles. When you press Auto tune the motor gets a buss as the controller is checked out statically and the software finds out from a motor performance point of view what the effective Kv value is and number of pole bars. The screen shown in the photo above shows the results of the auto tune. If the wheel turns in the wrong direction (if you guessed wrong on the hall sensors) you can press a button to reverse it and retest. My motor actually is running sensor-less since the hall sensors were not correctly detected…something I did with the JST pin perhaps – I can check it later but the phase runner actually works well on the BBSHD sensor less…I actually could have saved the hours I spent trying to get the hall sensors wired correctly. Hopefully I can troubleshoot later to fix it since the hall sensors will give better starting than the sensor-less mode can…if working. The warning showing above “Vdc high feedback” is related to the fact that I will use the cycle analyst to runback on low voltage and the phase runner is on default settings.
    Once you have Auto tuned, you then can adjust the maximum phase current I used twice what I was going to run as battery peak current so 40 A battery 80 to the phases, the power limit can also be adjusted – initially I left it at 2 Kw but raised it to 3 once the bike was running. When you reset the power to 3kw it changes the maximum battery current accordingly i.e. to 58.6 A with a 72V rated battery. (I will use the cycle analyst to limit the current so that I will get 3 Kw on fresh charge but slightly less as the voltage drops) Another Phase runner option is to use phase weakening which gives an extra 50 rpm or so with little reduction in efficiency – a slight increase to 2-3 no load amps draw.
    With the motor running it is time to set the bike upright and finish wiring and connecting the cycle analyst, throttle, 3 position switch and 2 position digital switch. In the photo you can see I used a half twist throttle for more sensitive control – mounted on the right (as on a motorbike) with the switches on the left next to the seat dropper lever. The cycle analyst has many connection wires out the back all of which I used. For temperature monitoring, I hooked up a cycle analyst thermocouple in the motor controller glued in place, testing the BBSHD sensor will come later…its wired just not connected to the CA.

    Battery set-up as a backpack battery. I copied an idea online to prepare my battery connection wire coil. I bought 6 foot long black and red 10 Ga silicone wires, new XT90-s connectors, soldered on the connector at one end, slipped on a 4 ft section of ½” heat shrink tubing and then wrapped the coil of wire with heat shrink as tightly as possible around a section of ½” aluminum tubing. I then used my heat gun to shrink in the heat shrink and while holding the ends of wire tight heated the tube between coils and the full length of the coiled wire in the heat shrink. After it cooled I had a coil with a diameter of about 1 ½” with a bit of spring to it. I think if I had a piece of pipe instead I could have achieved a tighter coil.
    The next phase was the Cycle Analyst set-up and test runs. I input the wheel circumference – measured by diameter, the limits I wanted on power and current, how I wanted the 3 position switch to control: 1 “legal” street mode - with 32 km/h (20mph) speed limit and a 1 Kw power limit, a medium setting with 2 Kw power limit and 50 km/h speed limit (30 mph) and an off-road setting with 3 Kw limit and 80 km/h speed limit (50 mph), the first two modes have been tested, mode 3 not fully yet…needing a bit more off road space….

    With the cycle analyst I did my initial test runs with most settings at default and PAS and throttle worked – just the acceleration on initial pedaling and throttle was too abrupt. Once I also inadvertently hit the 3 position switch before starting into position 3 and as soon as PAS hit – I was in a full acceleration wheelie… leading to a crash and bruised muscles all over…. With more reading on the websites for the Cycle analyst I figured out that one of the default modes I should have changed was the gain – the default was 999 – change this BEFORE test riding!!!!!!!!
    I now have this gain set to 20, but with it at 999 it just meant that I was almost instantly at full power – so no wonder with my battery at 82V and 30 Amps recorded as peak amps I had an inadvertent launch at 2460 watts…yipes. The cycle analyst fortunately allows for analysis of what’s going on so I was able to figure out the settings on my own…this is another reason why kits are nice where these parameters have already been optimized…
    The cycle Analyst Screens show lots of parameters: The Aux A show I have selected the 3 position switch to give me the option of 3 preset “sets” of parameters so my 3 operating modes Legal, medium and off-road. The new beta version of the software allows the digital inputs I currently use for 10 PAS levels. I can elsewhere set what power the 10 levels divide and what rate of ramp up as I pedal faster I can use.




    For the battery hookup – I initially kept the Andersons supplied with the phase runner at in the photo below showing the battery in backpack with connecting coil…
    – and as an advantage they disconnected very easily when I crashed… on the down side they came loose giving low voltage errors when I was riding over bumps, So I have disconnected the Andersons and crimped in the XT90-s directly. I plug in the battery to ride or test and keep it in the backpack ready to go.


    With the wiring all done I used some black spiral wire wrap to hold everything in place and make the installation look neat as can be seen here – with the USB hooked up for tuning adjustments between test runs.

    On the chain wheel side everything looks pretty neat….I like the look of the phase runner there but am considering painting the sides black to blend in and be more stealth.

    Build Price list:
    2002 Ellsworth Dare used $900 Canadian
    Luna order one including shipping $1398.75 US (I haven’t used the Mini Luna yet but could put it on my Wife’s e-bike if she needs more torque on trails).

    Order 2 – after I watched the Luna part 2 BBSHD assembly video that used the Project X bike and said the Luna Eclipse fit the best. $122.95 US


    On Amazon.ca I spent about $75 Canadian for waterproof connectors, silicone wire, heat shrink, crimping tool.
    At the Local Canadian Tire store spent about $20 Canadian for soldering iron tip, solder, putty and other odds and ends.

    At ebikes.ca
    Order 1 which included the Cycle Analyst 3, the Phase runner, thermo couple, throttle, 3 position switch, and the USB programming cable including tax and shipping $736.34
    Order 2 – including the 2 position digital switch, a different throttle with ebrake – green switch, a cable routing kit and some other parts that I didn’t use but returned. Worked out to about $50 Canadian net after returned items credit.
    Total Cost of bike as currently built in $US (using current conversion rates). $2822.08….includes the mighty mini chainwheel.








    Last edited by Colin59; 06-27-2017, 05:37 AM.

    #2
    Thanks for the detailed write up, much appreciated. Can we get your impressions of the BBSHD @ 72V?

    Comment


      #3
      Click image for larger version

Name:	20170621_203412.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	369.2 KB
ID:	38603Click image for larger version

Name:	20170621_203400.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	358.5 KB
ID:	38604Click image for larger version

Name:	20170621_203404 - Copy.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	377.9 KB
ID:	38605Click image for larger version

Name:	20170621_203409.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	380.7 KB
ID:	38606Click image for larger version

Name:	20170621_203416.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	352.2 KB
ID:	38607 After 4 weeks of fun fast biking I have only done about 150 km of riding. and am on my second charge of the 72 V battery. On the first charge - probably because of all the reprogramming and tuning done the CA only showed 75wh with the battery down to 70V when I recharged it, I recharged it because when I used full power I had so much voltage sag...looking for advise on how low should I run the battery - all the way to 63V or somewhere above this...

      I do have my bike set up for PAS - under preset one I have 10 steps from 75w to 750w assist and it does come in very smoothly, though to prevent powertrain jerk I put it back to 75 watts if I have to come to a full stop. I have it set-up to increase assist with cadence, so at my normal full cadence the assist on level one increases from 75W to about 95W which is enough for most trail hills. For longer or steeper hills I ramp up the PAS setting and can easily maintain my trail speed at about 20 km per hour. For fun I use the throttle which I have set to 1kw on preset one which really zips me up the steepest hill reaching my speed limit by the top (32 km per hour or 20 mph) the Canadian legal limit.

      Doing some rides on the waterfront trail in Ontario which is a very scenic ride with my wife on her e-bike BBS02 - my first build, I have found out a few things. The Ellsworth Dare is heavier than I thought about 49.2 pounds without the battery in my backpack. However the BBSHD running at 72V nominal is more than up for it. When my wife and I ride the waterfront trails which are paved dual and single tracks with some wood curving bridges and one steel grated bridge we average about 15-20 km per hour and the Ellsworth Dare uses about 6 wh per km running at a maximum of 10 Amps - or 700watts up a long hill. Compared to the BBS02 on my wifes lighter bike running 48 V and the same 700 watts power level my speed up the hill is at least twice hers. The effect of the higher motor speed and the motor difference as well.
      When I go on my own in the nearby trails and parks -öff road-with a couple of long straights I have used up to 25 w per km...this included some checks for top speed in 7, 8, 9 gear. With the battery near full charge (about 81V) I saw 67 km per hour in 7th with a peak current of 42 A and a voltage drop to 66V for a voltage sag of 15V on the Luna 72 V 20S 3P Panasonic GA batteries (voltage min on the cycle analyst). When the battery was 71 V to start I saw a peak speed of 55 km per hour with peak current of 36A and voltage drop to 59V for a 12 V sag, the cycle analyst cuts power starting at 63V so that limited it. I looked up the Panasonic 18650 GA and their spec sheet shows a maximum discharge of 10A per cell - so with 3P that should be a 30A maximum... I assume thats why I am seeing so much voltage drop at higher current loads -above 40A. The Luna BMS says the battery is rated for 50A continuous and 70 A maximum, though I wasnt able to get that far even with a nearly fully charged battery.
      The battery is also supposed to be rated as 750 watt hour, though on my second charge I am seeing 151 plus 163 wh - TRIP RESET- 315 WH with the voltage already down to 74 so that sounds but right if 750 wh includes running the battery down to 63V -with the voltage sag I am not sure how many amps I could draw at that voltage though...

      Overall the 72V battery, as noted elsewhere really extends the speed range in each gear and by varying power levels I can pedal up to the speed matching the slope using throttle if I want to go faster than I can pedal in that gear. The Grin phaserunner is really a stealth set-up which I like and the bike motor is quieter than the tire noise on the pavement. I have painted my clear phaserunner flat black to remove the obvious - whats that question, and when stopped so far the conversations have been positive about the motor assist...and bikers have been courteous - I led the racers go ahead then just manage to keep up as they pump away...
      See the photos for some of the CA displays and stealth look. Also my portable BBQ charging Box and 4 bike carrier set-up for 2 ebikes. Note my Canadian- American T Shirt showing the international flavour of this group.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Colin59 View Post
        At ebikes.ca
        Order 1 which included the Cycle Analyst 3, the Phase runner, thermo couple, throttle, 3 position switch, and the USB programming cable including tax and shipping $736.34
        Order 2 – including the 2 position digital switch, a different throttle with ebrake – green switch, a cable routing kit and some other parts that I didn’t use but returned. Worked out to about $50 Canadian net after returned items credit.
        Can you explain a bit about the returns and the switches, why did you do each?

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Colin59 View Post

          When I go on my own in the nearby trails and parks -öff road-with a couple of long straights I have used up to 25 w per km...this included some checks for top speed in 7, 8, 9 gear. With the battery near full charge (about 81V) I saw 67 km per hour in 7th with a peak current of 42 A and a voltage drop to 66V for a voltage sag of 15V on the Luna 72 V 20S 3P Panasonic GA batteries (voltage min on the cycle analyst). When the battery was 71 V to start I saw a peak speed of 55 km per hour with peak current of 36A and voltage drop to 59V for a 12 V sag, the cycle analyst cuts power starting at 63V so that limited it. I looked up the Panasonic 18650 GA and their spec sheet shows a maximum discharge of 10A per cell - so with 3P that should be a 30A maximum... I assume thats why I am seeing so much voltage drop at higher current loads -above 40A. The Luna BMS says the battery is rated for 50A continuous and 70 A maximum, though I wasnt able to get that far even with a nearly fully charged battery.
          The battery is also supposed to be rated as 750 watt hour, though on my second charge I am seeing 151 plus 163 wh - TRIP RESET- 315 WH with the voltage already down to 74 so that sounds but right if 750 wh includes running the battery down to 63V -with the voltage sag I am not sure how many amps I could draw at that voltage though...
          I was interested in the voltage sag. At 81V at 42A and a voltage sag of 15V to 66V. R= V/I 16V/42A=0.357Ohms, R=V/I 12V/36A=334mOhms. So 334 to 357mOhms is very high. The issue here is your 10Ah. The more Ah the less resistance. Either the battery is defective or clearly is not matched to your setup. The cells are Panasonic 3450mA that will do 10A discharge per cell max. With 3 cells that is only 30A so your pack cells are not rated for 50A you should be only doing 30A. Also at 10A discharge per cell your capacity dropped from 3450mAh to 2600mAh so if your pulling 30A you're only going Mohave 780Wh battery pack. (see attached pic of the Panasonic's GA 10A discharge graph).



          If they are telling you that the battery will do 50A continuous and 70 A maximum clearly they didn't test this design or some how extra Resistance are got into your pack.


          An issue of course is your 1. Ah is low, 2. you have a 20S3P that is claiming to be rated for 50A (or at least the BMS is rated for that) but there are only 3 cells and they have a maximum of 10A discharge, 3. and for some reason your pack has a Resistance of 334mOhms. That very interesting.


          Panasonic's GA 10A discharge graph has capacity at 2600mAh
          https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/06...79572025043155


          Click image for larger version  Name:	pansonicGA.png Views:	1 Size:	256.6 KB ID:	79871



          Originally posted by Colin59 View Post
          The battery is also supposed to be rated as 750 watt hour, though on my second charge I am seeing 151 plus 163 wh - TRIP RESET- 315 WH with the voltage already down to 74 so that sounds but right if 750 wh includes running the battery down to 63V -with the voltage sag I am not sure how many amps I could draw at that voltage though...
          At 74V your LVC kicks in or should kick in at 3V/cell or 60V. So you have a drop of 14V available.

          I=V/R 14V/0.357Ohms=39.2A

          I also noticed your in Ontario also. I am in London area (Aylmer) I would love to see your build. I send you a pm with my email and phone number.
          Last edited by bobmutch; 12-16-2018, 11:07 AM.

          Comment

          Working...
          X