Another Paratrooper

[calfee20]

Well I built another bike. I wanted something lighter that I could fit into my Civic Hatchback. There is not really anything special about this build so this will be a short post. I decided on a BBS02 for the weight savings and normally when I ride I don't go over 15 amps. My Slim Line 52 volt battery was gathering dust so I figured it would do for a while. The rack it is mounted on inhibits the folding action of the Montague so another solution will need to be found once Luna gets some rectangles back in stock.

I had to get a long harness from Luna because of the upright riding position I am using. I ditched the flat bars and that long forward facing dog bone and went with an adjustable stem called an Octagon. The Octagon is made by Montague for their road bikes and they don't want it used on their mountain bikes. I am not a mountain biker so it is fine for me. Here is a photo of the front stem.




The seat and handlebar adjustments make this bike easily set up for most anyone. Here is a photo of the whole bike.



I don't like the knobby tires and I was out of black wire ties so the whites are a temporary solution. This bike is so totally different than my cruiser. The wheelbase is at least 4 inches shorter This photo exaggerates the differences between the bikes but here it is anyway.



I will post some ride impressions in a bit.............calfee

[xcnick]

Tell me more about the rack. Is the Topeak bag just sitting there or does it have the rail that is a Topeak proprietor attachment? Battery specs etc. 14s3p with 25r cells (a guy can dream)? Where can I get one?

Oh it is a special build. I am sure all of us who stare at pictures of bikes see the Paratrooper and think: Gotta do one of dem.

(You know I envy the cruiser install, not fair sneaking that in.)

[AZguy]

Bontrager has a good selection of simple and very sturdy racks that are inexpensive. I've got a rear one that I picked up at the LBS ~$35 that I put a battery and two 20l panniers on with no issue s at all in ~2500mi...

[Zippy]

Those Paratroopers are a cool frame, I could easily follow you down the worm hole on this one too, been keeping my eye open for one used in good shape for a while now, I could fold it up and it would easily fit inside my VW Bus through the side sliding door or in through the back door.

[Green Werks]

That's a sweet Build Tom
Bravo Dude

[calfee20]

Tell me more about the rack. Is the Topeak bag just sitting there or does it have the rail that is a Topeak proprietor attachment? Battery specs etc. 14s3p with 25r cells (a guy can dream)? Where can I get one?

Oh it is a special build. I am sure all of us who stare at pictures of bikes see the Paratrooper and think: Gotta do one of dem.

(You know I envy the cruiser install, not fair sneaking that in.)

On my first build I mounted the Slim line on an old Topeak rack I had laying around then later I bought that battery rack to protect the battery. Then I cut up the Topeak some more and wire tied the dove tail slot to the battery rack. http://electricbike.com/forum/forum/...-cruiser/page6

[calfee20]

Those Paratroopers are a cool frame, I could easily follow you down the worm hole on this one too, been keeping my eye open for one used in good shape for a while now, I could fold it up and it would easily fit inside my VW Bus through the side sliding door or in through the back door.

I had to drive nearly 2 hours to look at a Paratrooper. I also wanted to look at an Allston. http://www.montaguebikes.com/product/allston/ It has belt drive and an 11 spd Shimano Alfine.


Unfortunately there were no Allstons to look at. They use an eccentric BB to tension the belt so unless I am looking at it I would have no idea if I could get a BBS02 to fit.

[mebgardner]

That eccentric BB ruled the Allston out of my choices for a doner cycle.

We're finding that the tire width causes restrictions on the folding tech of these cycles. The fatter the tire, the less well it folds flat. It will still fold, but the tire rubs the top bar of the frame when "too fat", so the folded front half "sticks out".

Lastly, have a close look at that Montague rack, purpose built for these folding cycles. See how the front down bar of the rack is "cut away" so to be closer to the rack top? That space is cut out for the occupation of the front half of the folded frame. Otherwise, the top tube would also interfere with the rack. Upshot: If you bought the cycle for the folding tech, you have to either go with their rack (and it is sturdy and works well with the cycle), or make your own rack.

[calfee20]

Ahhhhhh I just had a huge comment typed up and I touched something and everything disappeared. I am using a Surface 3 in a dock and a 24" monitor for a PC and a TV in the trailer. The touch pad screws me up when I am typing on this tiny thing with my XXXL hands. Well the touch pad is shut off now.

I have been trying to figure out what to do with this bike and I think it will get some narrower tires so it will fold better. You really need the rack though for the folding operation. I will have to get the mounting spacers from Montague or make some up. I have a spare rack to hack on because the first one came through bent so I have a spare to try to graft a Topeak rail to it and still have it work.

I have been thinking I should carry this everywhere with me now that I have a cap on the truck. You never know when you may need or have the opportunity to go for a quick ride.

[mebgardner]

If you get the opportunity to get those mounting spacer parts from Montague, then I request that you request two sets. My .02 is you should request the entire Allston axle set, because it seems to come that way in a separate rack purchase (ie: it's bundled that way with a rack, when purchased separately). I will guarantee repayment for one set, and shipping to get them to me, if less than say $40 total all-in. If you agree, Thank You.

I'm going to work on my end, too. I'm going to ask my LBS, a Montague dealer, if he can get an Allston axle set. I will do the same for you, if you want this. (Purchase two, ship you one if you guarantee repayment).

Edit:

After thinking about this more carefully, I now believe that the axle set that comes bundled with a rear rack, will not be enough parts. That set includes the spacers that allows the rack to mount to the frame, and allows the rack to subsequently rotate. That is, it includes the spacers on the outside of the rear dropouts. The "inside" spacers for the brake disk to caliper, and the spacers for the rear sprocket, will be missing from that bundled axle set. Even more, the Allston mounts an 11 speed Alfine, and that likely has different "inside" spacers than an 8 speed. I'm also not interested in a belt drive, instead sticking to chain for now, so that's another change from the Allston.

Calfee, I admit to being confused about how to proceed to modify my Highline to an 8 speed Alfine, with spacer parts from Montague. If we can even get them.

[calfee20]

Riding impressions:

This bike is short and quick handling it is the complete opposite of my cruiser. The nine speed rear derailleur has been working flawlessly. I am not used to that with a derailleur. I have developed a quick little backpedal, then shift, then small forward pedal and pause when going up or down. It works perfectly. I will be able to hold off on the planned IGH for a while now.

I put a factory Electra Cruiser seat on it. I thought I would use my body float and just switch it between bikes but the seat tubes are different sizes. RATTS.

The BBS02 has hot rod programing on it and it scared the crap out of me. I was riding it around the yard and noticed the handle bars needed to be tighter. I got off and was tightening from the front when I touched the twist throttle. Well the bike tried to climb my chest and do a back flip. Tom.....note to self immediately power down bike before getting off. This programming has maximum amps available in any PAS setting. Now I can see why people break chains. I was in first and starting off with to much throttle and it actually popped a small wheelie.

There is a short one person or bike trail that I use to get to and overlook. It has a lot of rocks that I try to pick my way through. Well it is far superior compared to my cruiser for that. Note I am not a mountain biker nor do I try to be. There are a few down hill "benders" S turns that I like to fly through. The Paratrooper is OK but the cruiser is better and the Fat tired cruiser is better yet. Forty years ago that was my thing on my Nortons.

I was going to put a battery in some kind of handle bar bag but I have changed my mind. Everything I do from now on will be to try to get the weight as low as possible. It just feels better. I will put something above the crank where the bottle bracket goes.

The knobbies lasted one ride. I had a couple of smooth factory Electra tires hanging on the wall. Well now the knobbies are hanging....Ahhh much better. I ordered another set of Big Apples yesterday.

Well that is enough for now...........calfee

[Zippy]

Very nice, I'm curious did you notice a lot of decrease in rolling resistance with the street tire when you switched them? Bike seem faster?

[calfee20]

Pretty much just the noise was less. I expect it to feel faster with the Big apples though.

[xcnick]

I have an extra set of Electra Tires ;-)

will Luna get the Slimline back or is it so last year?

I think I can cut up a Topeak rack and damn am I getting good with zip ties but it looks like I better take the topeak and try to make the battery fit under it. Anyways, worth a try.

[calfee20]

I have an extra set of Electra Tires ;-)

will Luna get the Slimline back or is it so last year?

I think I can cut up a Topeak rack and damn am I getting good with zip ties but it looks like I better take the topeak and try to make the battery fit under it. Anyways, worth a try.

Luna dropped their Slim Line almost a year ago. I probably bought one of the last ones. I am just using it now for temporary use on new builds.

Topeak makes a rack for Fat bikes. It is the rack that I have on my cruiser. I think you could fit a battery under it because it is very wide and there is a lot of height adjustment. It is called a UNI SUPER TOURIST FAT.

[mebgardner]

I believe the rack pictured will not allow the cycle to fold much. The folded top tube with lean on the rack downtube and cause the folded frame to stick out relatively far. In the threads pictures, I see you solved this problem with the addition of the IGH and it's proprietary disk brake. That is, you chose a rack based on the IGH / brake combo that allowed the rack frame to be positioned much closer to the bike frame.

I am trying to solve the same problem using the cycle's OEM disk brake setup. This type of rack is apparently needed for that setup, and so I now have the problem I described. (LBS suggested and installed the Topeak Explorer (Disk) rack and MTS bag combo). It's not working out for me to fold the cycle as appears in the last picture in this thread post #30.

[calfee20]

The paratrooper is fine tuned to fold. I used slightly wider tires and they interfere with the fold. The factory rack fits on special spacers that are included with the quick release hub. The IGH I installed doesn't have these spacers so I will have to do some lathe work to get the rack to fit with my IGH. Montague has a bike with an 11 speed I emailed and asked about obtaining these special parts but naturally I didn't get a reply. I should call and become a pest before I start making parts.

[mebgardner]

calfee20:

Please stay in touch, I would love to learn about whether or not Montague will sell you those parts.

[calfee20]

I just ordered a Shimano Alfine S-7000-8. I also got a couple of Alex DX-32 rims from eBay. I am planning to put this on the Paratrooper but it would fit my standard Electra too. Hmmm decisions decisions!!

[calfee20]

Wow three months since the last post. I am working on the Paratrooper again because I plan on taking it to Florida in a couple of months. I assembled the new rear wheel with the Alfine 8spd. Here is a photo of it in the frame where I was checking the dish and making sure of clearance everywhere.



Since this photo I have finished the wheel and mounted the tire. I have an offset 16 tooth rear cog that is positioned so the offset protrudes towards the right. I got the wheel on last night and the chain line looked perfect. The 9spd chain will be replaced with a KMC - X8.99 chain. All that is left is the shifter and the rear disc.

Luna finally came through with a battery. It is 3.25 X 3.00 X 11.0 inches, and is a 52 volt 14 amp/hr GA cell unit. Today I am going out to try to find some sort of handlebar bag to put it in. The Paratrooper is far to light in the front, at least for me. The handlebar setup will make it easy to move this battery around to different bikes for added range.

[theronchaplin]

I was thinking of hanging a battery from the top-tube in some sort of removable bag situation, but your handlebar setup intrigues me. I look forward to seeing how it looks, feels and functions when you get that set up.

On a separate note, I was looking at a new wheelset for my Paratrooper and am thinking about wheel width. It came with 26x2.1's but looks like it can easily handle 2.5" and maybe more. How wide of a tire are you planning for?

[calfee20]

I have Schwalbe Big Apple tires, 26 X 2.35". There is still a little room so 2.5 will fit but it is getting close.

I was at a pretty good LBS yesterday and he was totally against using the handlebars for hanging any kind of weight. I don't know, I will come up with something.

[theronchaplin]

This was kinda what I was thinking for the battery bag...

They sell the bags (super expensive of course) but I can't tell if they sell the one in this pic with the straps that wrap around the big top tube of the paratrooper

http://www.hi-powercycles.com/2017-hpc-waterproof-battery-frame-bags-w-kevlar-nomex-liner/

[calfee20]

More than a year ago I posted a photo that I copied from a Boston Craig's list add in a random thread because one of the commenting members had a paratrooper.



We figured out it was a Blackburn Outpost bag. Then when I was getting read to build a Paratrooper I ordered a large bag. I had jumped the gun though because the large is to long by a couple of inches. Now that I have that battery from Luna I tried it in the large bag for fit and it would have been perfect if it weren't to long. I bit the bullet and ordered a medium from Amazon last night.

The important thing for me is to get my batteries easily movable from bike to bike. Right now I have 2 slimlines that fit in a special rack, a 24 amp triangle in a Luna bag, and this new rectangle that will go in the Blackburn bag. The 2 bagged batteries will move easily because of Velcro straps

If I add the new rectangle to my main 24 amp battery I will have a whopping 38 amps and adding it to one of the slimlines will give me 27 amps. Yes getting rid of range anxiety one step at a time.

[theronchaplin]

I remember this pic and thought it was the way I wanted to go at the time. Am I getting to hung up on how thick the top tube is? I haven't seen a blackburn bag close up but the pics I have seen tell me the straps it comes with aren't long enough to wrap around the top. I too am looking for a solution to easily swap out a battery between bikes. I don't ride much with anyone that would borrow one of my bikes, so I have a hard time justifying a second battery.

[mtm408]

The Blackburn straps aren't that long, but they aren't permanently attached. There are upper support loops that the straps pass through, allowing you to move the straps around or replace them.

[calfee20]

The Blackburn has a series of sewn in attachment points that go around the perimeter of the bag. The straps that come with it will not work with a Paratrooper. I bought a package of Velcro straps from Amazon that are working great for this and other things.

My 3" wide battery is a little thicker than the bag but the battery fits in fine.






In the bottom photo you can clearly see the attaching points. They go all the way around the bag. The strap on the left is the Amazon unit and the other one was supplied with the bag. I should have a photo of it on the bike in a week.

[theronchaplin]

Yes, that makes a lot more sense to me now. Thanks for posting the pics!