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1st Build & E-Bike rider-Magic Pie V5 (rear) -Bottle Batt. 52v*11.5ah-Huffy Parkside

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    #16
    Addressing the issue of the axle rocking in the drop out. As is evident from this picture of the washer side, closest to the drop out.



    Looking at this, as well as with the wheel installed, its clear that I needed to tweek the drop outs into alignment. When I bought the bike I made sure that the drop out was 135mm as required.
    But my 7 speed freewheel widened the manditory space, spreading out the seat and chain stays. There by causing the drop outs to get out of alignment. Corrected the alignment, and a bit of twist on one side. Also spread the stays out to meet the needed room without having to fight it. Much better!

    Was using just one universal torque arm on the non-freewheel side. Being held in place on the side of the support by a worm gear clamp.




    I suspect either the play in the universal torque arm (geared insert). Play in the worm gear clamp. Or lack of lock washers in the assembly. And of course, the misalignment...

    So decided to make my own torque arm. Started with cutting out from a pattern.



    Finished off...



    Fit...



    And Installed...




    Seems very tight and secure. Now to make the other side, and decide how many, and where to put the Belleville spring lock washers. Torque Specification for the axle nuts...anyone?


    See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

    Comment


    • Rider
      Rider commented
      Editing a comment
      Nice work! Solid dual torque arms are worth their weight in gold.

    #17
    I used one lock washer on each side with the hump towards the outside (nut). I think you could go either way in your setup. I agree with the torque specification you listed!
    BTW, Impressive making your own spokes. I would not thought to try that. The hand made torque arms look good. Let us know how they work out.
    Robert
    Last edited by Robert62; 12-06-2017, 05:56 PM.

    Comment


      #18
      Hello, I when i built my own electric bike i started with a twist throttle. But with riding a bicycle there is alot of handle bar work sort of speak. So i found that a thumb throttle is so much easier to contol and use. I can keep a grip on the handle and just use my thumb to feather the throttle as required. Thanks

      Comment


      • Tommycat
        Tommycat commented
        Editing a comment
        Hi Brian, I'll put you down for a thumb throttle vote! The type of riding you do, I think may have a lot to do with ones choice. Do you do a lot of off road riding?

      #19
      Knocked out the freewheel side torque arm. Considered adding the shifter mounting arm to it, but available space and tearing down and re-building the shifter where two big negatives. Noticed I have to drill the shifter lock-down bolt hole yet. Also if I can't get the shifter to fit on the handle bars... I just may go to one speed. As it mainly will be used for emergency return home if needed, and of course to adhere to the rules governing electric powered bicycles.




      Still trying to procure some Belleville washers...but with the shipping over twice the cost of the washers I find it hard to trip the trigger.
      See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

      Comment


      • Tommycat
        Tommycat commented
        Editing a comment
        Final torque arm on the prowl... Had to slim up for proper derailleur gear operation, painted, and used jam nuts on the axel for extra security.



      #20
      I like to keep my throttles on the right. I used and old twist grip shifter and flipped it around to the left handlebar. It rotates backwards but otherwise works and looks fine.
      Robert

      Comment


      • Tommycat
        Tommycat commented
        Editing a comment
        That's the set-up I'm trying now! :-) But it makes me put the cruise button next to the twist throttle on the right. And I find it awkward to use that way...hummmm. Even thought about putting it on the handle bar stem... to big of diameter. Has anyone tried or have a thumb shifter? Smaller footprint?

      • ykick
        ykick commented
        Editing a comment
        Since I really don’t shift that much (motor ya know?) I always figure out a way to move shifter to the LH side. Although might look a little weird majority trigger shifters flip over fine. There’s also the old Sunrace SLM10 thumb friction shifters which have helped me solve this on some installs. Of course, those aren't indexed although they do have notched steps.

        We should be able to re-learn LH throttle and I’ve tried but it’s just too weird. Thumb or twist throttle on RH side for me please....

        Another possible solution is to add real estate like handlebar extender - https://lunacycle.com/bicycle-bike-h...nium-extender/

        I worked on 2012 eMoto Malibu recently and it used 8 speed drivetrain with a LH twist shifter. I did a double take and thought to myself "some company obviously makes it" but why is it so hard to find?

      • Tommycat
        Tommycat commented
        Editing a comment
        Dang...another part to bookmark! lol

      #21
      I am not familiar with the cruise button. Pic?
      R

      Comment


      #22
      So here is the set-up I was trying as mentioned above...



      But I had the solution in front of me, O.K. in a box, all the time. The original donor bikes hand grips. The one for the twist shifter side is cut shorter to allow for the shifter!



      Of course! So I'll try the old grip till I'm sure I like everything. Then cut the kits grip down.



      Contemplating how to hide the wiring runs at this time. Black cable ties will not make it. And thinking of watertight connectors for both power and control wires not to far from the hub. To allow easy disconnect of the rear wheel for maintenence/tire repair or change. Perhaps internal runs, or an add on custom wiring chase.
      Last edited by Tommycat; 12-17-2017, 02:19 PM. Reason: ...more thoughts.
      See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

      Comment


        #23
        Ahhhh, new parts in the mail.

        New Display Panel!




        Some XT60 connectors, and a Solid State Relay.




        Putting it between my bottle battery pack 52vdc output, and controller. Although my battery pack has an on/off switch (BMS E-switch).It has to be ON to charge the battery. I desire to charge the battery on the bike, which it's not recommended to charge with the controller connected...hence the solid state switch between the two. It will also give me a couple extra security shut-offs. Since it's recommended by Luna Cycle to serve such a purpose (battery shut-off). And is also under the recommend maximum controller capacitance level(1500 mF) and voltage. I do not plan on adding diodes of any type, or pre-charge resistor circuit.

        A test fit to see if I can shoe horn it into the back of my battery holder...success. I really like the lighted remote on/off switch. But I'll be protecting those low voltage wires better!





        Not sure if this will be it's final resting place as I've got some project boxes coming for wiring junctions, display shunt, and front cockpit panel. But it's a possibility.

        Last edited by Tommycat; 03-20-2019, 05:50 AM. Reason: Removed bad link.
        See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by Tommycat View Post

          Noticed I have to drill the shifter lock-down bolt hole yet.


          Still trying to procure some Belleville washers...but with the shipping over twice the cost of the washers I find it hard to trip the trigger.
          So got around to finishing the rear gear change mounting. Just when you think you've got a quick and easy step...errrrr off by just that much...






          So after tweaking the drop-outs, gear screw hole, and mounting screw. Got it to fit. Needed to add a spacer to the front to have equal pressure all around but...




          got it to all to go together. Not quite to final torque. Instead of the Belleville washers, I opted for some good ol' jam nuts. Custom cut from one regular nut.


          See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

          Comment


          • Tommycat
            Tommycat commented
            Editing a comment
            Nope, couldn't go for the extra equalizer washer...just something to lose. So filed the gear support to fit better and closer to the axle nut. That should do.

          #25
          Moving on to the design and fabrication of the front panel with displays.


          Parts involved...




          Figuring what to place where...




          Ahhhhhh, change of direction and added a couple parts...




          Lay-out.




          Cut-out.




          Handle bar mounting brackets.




          Final product which includes BAC-601 display and configuration button(s), Baylite display, and starter switch. With enough room in the box for front wiring and connections.








          I'll take the protective plastic off the display sometime.... I promise.


          Last edited by Tommycat; 08-15-2018, 05:22 AM. Reason: Added picture...
          See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

          Comment


            #26



            So decided to add a wiring make-up box. Mainly to house the Baylight shunt shown here all wired up and wrapped with heat shrink. It will also hide the connectors coming from the front panel. As well as some battery wiring and connections.





            Bottom mounting holes and wiring chase access.





            Seat post cut-out...




            Mounted with my new favorite hardware... RIVNUTS!





            Rubber grommets will be added as required to protect the wiring in and out of frame tubing and boxes.



            See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

            Comment


              #27
              Originally posted by Tommycat View Post

              Added third hole towards the top for extra secureness. Used a self tap sheet metal screw with rubber washer. Sealing with silicone caulk to prevent corrosion.

              Back from the future...Found out about RIVNUTS. Will probably change added self tap mounting screw to a rivnut further in the future. See them here... https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...re-you-need-it
              Well it's the future and I wanted to show you how my RIVNUT installs go...


              Rivnuts work a lot like pop-rivits except they have a threaded nut portion at the bottom of the hole which would have been occupied by the mandrel.

              Here the rivnut is on the left with my home made tool on the right.





              Not much to the tool. Couple of star washers to keep things from spinning. 5mm stainless steel hex head bolt, and coupling big enough to let the bolt slide thru, and a washer. Note I had to cut the coupling down about a quarter inch. Grease at the washer. It works very well!





              As I mention above will be replacing self-tap screw with rivnut.




              A first time practice is in order so follow along. Drilled a starter hole that was about the same size as my existing hole...




              Drilled it out to the required diameter...





              Trial fit...




              Tool inserted...





              Tightened down holding the coupling with one wrench, and drawing up the bottom half of the Rivnut with another wrench on bolt nut at the top...




              Final product!




              Tightened down to max torque, short of breaking S.S. Bolt. Note: hole MUST be exactly perpendicular to round pipe. And in exact position wanted...not much wiggle room here. Especially difficult (for me) on this oval bike frame down tube. But got close enough.






              Last edited by Tommycat; 08-29-2019, 06:26 AM. Reason: Better description...
              See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

              Comment


                #28
                Wanted to get access to the full twist throttle wiring for a couple mods. With Calfee's help and advice got the tool set below...





                Poked and pried and pulled...hit the right combination, and off it popped! Without the proper tools, and the "wedge somewhere to apply pressure" I would not have gotten it.


                If anyone is interested in the interior...








                See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

                Comment


                • Tommycat
                  Tommycat commented
                  Editing a comment
                  So the pick the lock method works O.K. And as I do it time and again , it's getting easier. But looking for something a little more easier.

                  T.P. roll to the rescue! Thinner pliable plastic tubing the correct diameter for my throttle removal tool.

                  Here's the lock pick pack on the right, throttle parts, and tool material.



                  Cut lines...




                  Version 1.0...




                  Version 1.1 parts...





                  Version 1.1 assembled...





                  With a look at the design tab grabbing design...





                  So I know what your thinking, how's it work? :-) Well, it's not quite fool-proof, but probably about twice as good as the pick method.





                  After getting a good idea of what's needed to unlock the assembly...decided to try version 2.0.


                  Took and modified a paint can opener as required...Original on the left, modified on the right.








                  Mostly fool proof and easier to use. ;-)

                #29
                Wiring harness runs are as follows...


                Battery termination of main power and solid state relay control wires. Both with connectors to allow easy battery and cradle removal...





                Front panel connections...





                Front wiring into top tube chase. All metal access holes protected with rubber grommets.





                Aft wiring chase into make up box. Extra holes are for the box mounting rivnuts.





                A look at the middle run...





                Make up box wiring terminations...





                So far, so good!






                See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

                Comment


                  #30

                  After running the battery down to a reduced voltage level. It's apparent that most of the fuel "indicators" are inaccurate. Now this did not come as much of a surprise after reading the forums for awhile. Let's get to fixes. (If possible)

                  As far as the indicators go, I have a total of 4.

                  1) LED lights on throttle assembly.
                  2) LED lights on bottle battery pack.
                  3) Bar indicator display on Smart Panel Display.
                  4) Watt meter on Bayite LCD Display.

                  Started with what seemed to be the easiest to tweek. The throttle 3-LED light display. Since the assembly was labled 48 volts, and I'm running a 52 volt battery pack (Panasonic 11.5 ah PF cell). It's obvious why it would be off. It's also known to have been designed for a lead acid battery. A four volt difference shouldn't be to hard to shift...? So after gaining access to the inside components (see previous post), and removing the LED display circuitry, measured it's working perameters which are as follows...

                  Of course the very first thing I did was to tear the red Batt+ wire off the circuit board while stripping the insulation off the end for the test leads.... Arrggg. Fixed.

                  The board is powered directly from the battery. It draws 13.94mA @ 54.5 volts (charge at that time...) Voltage changes where done with resistors.

                  The Green LED light shut off @ 47.9 volts.
                  The Yellow LED shut off........@ 42.2 volts.
                  The Red LED shut off............@ 30.3 volts.

                  These off points where not at an instant on/off point as the LED slowly dims prior to totally going out. I'd say it takes a volt or two. But they are where the lights are completely (as far as my eyes can see) 'Off'. So having the off points for them I looked to see at what percentage of a 48 volt battery they would correspond to according to this chart.





                  Green [FULL] light off at ~ 57%
                  Yellow [HALF] light off at ~20%
                  Red [EMPTY] light off at ~well... this voltage is well below any recommended battery usage point, so in effect it would always be lit.

                  Even at 48 volt usage these setpoints seem ineffective to me. Hummm what would I like. Well to start, since the green light indicates full charge. I would like it to go out, say at about 80 to 90%. Between battery balancing charges at 100%, I plan on using the battery life prolonging charge of 80%. So if the green light would be dim at that charge it would work for me. The yellow half charge light would definatly have to go out at 50%,no question. And this will be my go to setting. And in my perfect world, the red light would of course be on, but start to blink at 30 to 40 percent! During usage I will be trying to keep the charge between 80 and 20 percent with the occasional 100% cell balancing charge.

                  Concentraiting on the 50% target...in the 52 volt world according to this chart it would be...





                  50.4 volts! Now that being said it has to be noted that these charts themselves are not known for their extreme accuracy. More of general guide lines so to speak. Problems being that there can be differences in the chemestries of the Li-Ion batteries and their discharge rates. Even readings while under load or static are obviously different. And how they discharge would have to be takin into account, it's not a linier staight line drop but more like this...








                  Taking into account the different charts I've looked at, I decided to use the value of 51.5 volts as my half-way point. So that means I had to lower my 51.5 voltage down to 42.2. Easy right? Lowering the voltage by resistance earlier to get the shut-off points was easy in that I didn't have to hit an exact value. So this proved to be a bit more difficult. Sure I've got the Laws...





                  ...and a bit of knowledge. But if you really want to keep most of your sanity, what's left anyway, is to use a linear resistance multi-turn potentiometer!





                  Now you can set the pot where you get your desired results, then measure the resistance and substitude the correct resistor size... Or as in my case, I had the room to just leave it in. With the benefit of having the opportunity to tweek it later if required. This is my best tip, just under using dual torque arms. :-)

                  With the battery charge actually at 51.5 volts the pot was set somewhere's close to 1K ohms with the yellow light just going off. Have to see yet where the top one hits...

                  UPDATE 3-11-2018: Alas after fully charging the battery, the green or full light did not come on... so adjusted the pot to have it on when the charge is full. Will see where this puts the 50% yellow light off setting...
                  Update 8-25-2018: If you went just by the lights after this mod, I think you could work out when to call it quits by checking where your low voltage of the battery would correspond with what LEDs are lit, or how bright. But since I always have the voltage available for me to see, (Bayite) I find it easier to just keep an eye on that. Hence the panel display of charge investigation stalled. The battery case indicator is O.K. But nothing beats actual readings.

                  Errrrrrrrrr, the BLINKING red light is a bit harder... lol. Decided just to use the blinking LEDs for defensive lighting!
                  Last edited by Tommycat; 08-25-2018, 06:37 AM.
                  See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

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