1st Build & E-Bike rider-Magic Pie V5 (rear) -Bottle Batt. 52v*11.5ah-Huffy Parkside

[Tommycat]

Wanted to get access to the full twist throttle wiring for a couple mods.

So as you can see from my last post it was necessary to get into the throttle assembly to tweak the LED power display.

My other thought after doing a couple burn-outs and running over my foot once while working on the bike "hot". Was to be able to disable the twist throttle as desired. I accomplished this by using the latch 'on' switch on the throttle assembly, which is originally wired to power the lights on. Removed those wires and put it in series with the throttle 5 volt supply power. Now if I can just remember to disable it when done riding.:-) Considered perhaps using a pressure switch on the seat... but lifting off the seat for maximum pedal power would defeat that... just not sure.

EDIT: This switch has worked well for me, especially while trying different throttle modifications. See my hall sensor thottle thread... It's a keeper.

[Tommycat]

For comfort went with a wider and softer saddle... Schwinn quilted cruiser saddle. Painless install, good fit. After a couple adjustments it seems to work well.






Considering a thudbuster, but with it's cost about the same as my whole new bike donor it's hard to do.

[Tommycat]

While trying to get the throttle LED charge indicator lights to be more accurate. And actively pursuing a low voltage indicator light that would be a blinking red LED. Into the electronics field we go.
Checked out and read the book "Electronics For Dummies". Ordered an electronics starter kit. And started experimenting! Found circuits online for "blinking LEDS". Backwards transistor, two transistor, and 555 timer type. Learned a lot, but nothing seemed tough enough to use, or worked perfectly/accurately. So I went online and found some LEDs that blinked all by themselves! But not only that, would change color from red to blue! Nice. They are rated at 12 volts, and will consume your typical 20mA current. But after finding that my installed Bayite LCD digital current/voltage display has a setting that will blink the display at under and over voltage set points. It rendered my blinking alarm light a bit mute...

So what to do with some store bought blinking LEDs?

Decided to upgrade my reflectors! Anything to improve being seen has to be good.


Showing an LED installed and the LED in a RED blink.




Part modifications and the LED in Blue blink mode.





Potted in silicone.





Added translucent covers. (plastic milk carton)





Wired 4 in series to main battery voltage, with an inline fuse who's circuit also provides power to the Bayite. Double checked current with battery at 58 volts...draws a bit over 20mA. Nice and bright!

Errrrr, sorry about the muddy back tire...





And here is the result...

[Rider]

Very nice!

[Tommycat]

Been sidetracked trying to eliminate a drivetrain problem, non-electric type... Below are some details, to see the full thread and/or offer advice...please go HERE.

In the highest gear, smallest sprocket, furthest away from the Magic Pie 5 hub motor. And under moderate to strong peddle input I will get what is best described as a "POP" and a quick 10 degree slippage down. Some times twice in quick succession. It happens on either leg driving the force. It seems to me that its coming from the rear freewheel/derailleur. But impossible for me to spot. No problems in any other gear. It's a 7 gear Shimano threaded on freewheel. Single chain ring in front. Twist shifter.

Less than 10 miles ridden on it, most on electric power only. :-)

Efforts to fix...

Derailleur hanger alignment. Parallel with the freewheel gears.

Derailleur adjustment, low, high, linear tracking.

Checked chain for stuck links...all free. Lubricated

Removal and disassembly of the freewheel hub assembly. Checking of the pawls, ratchets, shimming and general operation and relube. A slight touch of marine grade grease, and 20 weight non-detergent oil.

Maximum/minimum derailleur gear positions...outside of recommendations.

I can get everything to work smooth as silk, with perfect alignment, and shifting top to bottom. But the minute I put a bit of power into the downstroke...POP. Arrrggggg.

In the interest of full disclosure, I seemed to have made it worse after the hub teardown and re-lube...

Pictures of the terror...

Inside of the freewheel hub...

What I know... It's definitely slippage! Slippage is probably caused by worn gears, worn chain, not enough teeth engaged, or loose chain tension and typical derailleur alignment.


So I decided to try to get rid of the problem first, before investing in parts.


This is where I started...with the original set-up, and good adjustments. Note the engagement of teeth with the idler gear quite high off the cog, 6 or less teeth engaged...













Still slipping... So went to the bungee tool box and grabbed and installed a tensioning tool to bring the idler down to engage more teeth...









Still slipping...hummmm but not as much! So with teeth engagement taken care of...added another tensioning adjuster to tighten up the chain a bit...









m
And that did the trick! Absolutely no slipping issue, so it can be done! So with renewed faith that it can be over come even with a worn cog and chain. I'm planning my next attack.


As there doesn't appear to be any other adjustments. Thinking that rotating the D-hanger counter clockwise to get the assembly as close to the torque arm (and teeth) as possible to grab as many teeth as possible.


And removing a couple links to increase chain tension.


Always mindful of course that it must be able to spool up to the low gear cogs just as well, without the idler gear hitting the cogs. Master links on order, will tear down derailleur looking for adjustment screws...


Can it be done?

After a slight intermission... see the solution in POST #36 below...

[commuter ebikes]

I still think that when this happens you should substitute in new parts one by one until you isolate the problem, taking advantage of how inexpensive bicycle parts are.

As instructive, fun and interesting it may be to tear down and rebuild a freewheel or derailleur, you will save time by installing in a new part.

I wonder what would happen if you substituted in a new freewheel, derailleur and properly tensioned chain all at once. A new derailleur, chain and freewheel would only set you back about $40 and you would have a nice little stockpile of spare parts for later.

[Tommycat]

While waiting on some parts, got in a little customizing work... The bikes name comes from not a Saturn V, but a little smart mouthed, genetically engineered raccoon... :-) But the V works! Cut out of self stick vinyl. Rocket freehand, lettering on a borrowed Cricut machine. 2-D cutting is neat. I can see why people go for the 3-D machines.


Model...




Two toned...






Version 1...






Rats, me thinks a little too big...





Version 2...








Ahhhhh...sticking with that one!

[Tommycat]

And that did the trick! Absolutely no slipping issue, so it can be done! So with renewed faith that it can be over come even with a worn cog and chain. I'm planning my next attack.


As there doesn't appear to be any other adjustments. Thinking that rotating the D-hanger counter clockwise to get the assembly as close to the torque arm (and teeth) as possible to grab as many teeth as possible.


And removing a couple links to increase chain tension.


Always mindful of course that it must be able to spool up to the low gear cogs just as well, without the idler gear hitting the cogs. Master links on order, will tear down derailleur looking for adjustment screws...


Can it be done?

Since this is a new bike and assembly, and being able to eliminate the issue at least temporarily with the existing parts. My course was set to reproduce the fix by adjustments rather than remove and replace.


And the answer is...

With new parts in hand... well O.K. A new master link, but there are 5 in the bag. ;-) I started the final push!

Please refer to this picture for actions taken...

#1 First action taken... verify correct chain length. Using the largest chain ring to largest cog and add 2 pins method. Found that my chain was 2 links too long--- corrected.

Results... no change.

#2 Notched the derailleur hanger around the axle to allow it to rotate counter-clockwise. Letting the gear pulley to get closer to the cogs. See top picture item #3 and the next picture.

Results... no change.

#4 Gear pulley still looked to be riding too high off the cog. So it was either decrease spring tension at the hanger pivot, or increase spring tension at the #4 pivot point.

As the chain was still a bit slack, I increased the spring tension at #4 pivot. Now not having any adjustment options this was done by drilling out a new spring attachment point in the end housing to make it a quarter turn tighter.

Results... Torque arm was interfering a bit. So had to go to #5...

#5 Removed a quarter inch of material off the torque arm to eliminate interference with derailleur gear operation.

Results...Pay dirt! Absolutely no popping, skipping, skating, or slippage at the cog, whats so ever! Even under the most aggressive power stroke I can muster. :-P

Here is a shot of the changes made...

You can see the better chain angle engaging more cog teeth, and with better chain tension, all is well.

Did the change from a 10mm round axle to a 14mm flat on 2 sides axle cause the issue? Which changed the over-all position of the derailleur gears? Bad cog spacer? Extra mass of the back wheel? Too long of chain contributing?

Cheap/// errr inexpensive donor bike (parts)? We'll see if this lasts...

One happy cat...

.

[Tommycat]

Time for something that I've been waiting and looking forward to for quite a long time. To communicate with my Magic Pie v5 Vector controller! A shout out to Gary Salo and Golden Motor Canada for supporting the Pie with stocking a communication USB cable. And straight forward sales and shipping. Well done. So with cable and laptop in hand, time to get it set up...

After downloading the latest communication software and driver installation program from Gary's web site to the laptop. Plugged in the communication cable from a spare USB port to the Pie's 5 wire communications port. (also used for the Smart Panel Display and Bluetooth dongle. But only one at a time...;-)








New hardware was recognized.





Decided to see if the old Vista operating system had what it takes to find and install the driver. So choose Locate and Install...





errrr....nope. Never hurts to try. So I let the driver installation program do it's thing...





Ahhhhh success! Verified which COM port was used thru Device Manager...





...Com 4
Started the communication software which I had installed earlier. And changed the access port from 3 to 4...





Turned on power to the controller and then hit the Connect button which is just left of the Com selection window.





Connection established! Neat. But ran into a glitch. Wanting to save the original configuration to an exported file, tried to do just that...





But got this error...





Since this was the first and only time I received this error after successfully exporting some changed settings to my hard drive, I'm going to give it a pass.

The software displays only those parameters that the controller supports. In the case of the Pie, just 12 are supported.





My changes so far are as follows

Kept Regenerative or E-Braking Enabled. I really like this feature as helps to brake the bike, and puts a little juice in the tank at the same time.(very little, lol and only works if the battery is depleted a bit...) O.K. this isn't a change...But I like E-Braking. :-)

I disabled Reverse operation. 1) not needed. 2) eliminates the danger if reverse control wire is accidently made.

Set Battery drawn current to 18 amps to satisfy E-bike regulations.

Set maximum forward speed to 250 RPM, again to satisfy regulations.

That's all right now, but may decrease the E-Braking to 40 or 45. As it is quite aggressive at this time.

Click download button...and all set.


So far these changes have effected the bikes operation in what I'd call a positive manner. Starting from a stop is smoother. Changes in throttle position has less abrupt changes in speed.
It regulates maximum speed to 20 MPH. And uses less battery power to do it!

Very pleased...

[Tommycat]

Been fighting with a front wheel "SQEEEEEEEEL" issue forever. Reached out to the forum community. See thread here...

Tried cleaning the rim with cleaner and alcohol, sanding the brake pads, tightening the front bearings, tightening the front spokes, truing the front rim, adjusting the pads, switching the pads from side to side, clean the rim again with soft scrub, toe-in the pads, sanding the rim connection point smooth, corrected adjustment cone installation, tried eliminating caliper arm play, cleaned the rims with steel wool and car rubbing compound, bought and installed new pads... you get the picture? Did I mention I cleaned the rims? ;-)













After all that this is what I got...

No Joy.

Taking a step back and thinking it over. It just seemed that the pads where gripping and sticking just a little too well. I mean they stopped you on a dime...but that noise. Arrrrrgggg.

So as a last ditch effort I gave it the only solution I could come up with...baby powder! Yep, bit on the pads and rim, ahhhhhh, smooth as silk, no noise! I did lose a bit of braking. But not enough to concern me. And I'm stopping very well. I'll see how long this lasts...


Another issue bites the dust. :-)

[commuter ebikes]

I have disk brakes and they squeal when I ride in the rain. I find this annoying.

[Tommycat]

@Rider...I've used the fan belt spray for it's intended purpose. To keep the belt FROM SLIPPING. It's tacky and sticky, and I'm afraid it would not be good to use for braking.
As there is some slippage needed for typical operation.

@commuter ebikes...Got some excellent tips for disk brake squeal before I pointed out I have RIM brakes. Take a look at the end of this thread! HERE!

[Rider]

Good point...

[Tommycat]

Houston, we have a problem! After inviting some friends to try my E-Bike for their first time E-Bike ride. A huge problem with the full twist throttle arose as it was difficult for a new rider to NOT pull the throttle back when applying the rear brakes! Yikes. As you know the braking will disable the motor, but upon release of the brake allows the motor immediately to power up. Causing a bit of panic, and erratic start/stop jerking. NOT GOOD!

And as someone who is quite familiar with it's operation, there are some issues I noticed also...


Such as going over rough terrain and having the throttle bounce around and cause erratic motor speed operation.

Much to easy to accidently "bump" off of cruise control.

And not being able to really relax, rest, or lean on the throttle side of the handle bars.


As you know, the thumb throttle was highly recommended at the start of my build. I might just end up there.....errrr but not quite yet. :-)

At the time I'd never even heard of a half twist throttle, but now it looked like something to try before bailing out and buying a new thumb throttle.


Original full length twist throttle...





Figuring cut line and starting the hacksaw cut...





Too late to go back now...





Final product...





And the results are in! Better control over rough terrain! Better control on typical ride, easy to set and maintain cruise setting! And rest and relaxation on the secure grip part.
Now if I can get my test pilots back to give it a try! :-O

And the bonus? Easy access to unlock the tabs allowing entry to the internal wiring! :-)

[Tommycat]

IMPORTANT INFORMATION for Magic Pie owners.

Since the purchase, and subsequent installation of the Magic Pie V5 I've been learning a lot. From perusing the E-Bike forums, owner manual, and sellers websites, reading about the joys and tribulations of owning a Pie. The number one recommendation during installation is the use of torque arms as previously mentioned... Number two starts below...

Upon first arrival of the Pie kit with harness, one will notice a couple dead-ended four wire cables. With what appears to be a dab of hot glue or silicone caulk on the end of a raw cut wire...With the lacksadaisy way these are terminated one might think that they wouldn't have much importance. Perhaps just for possible future use and activation. True about future use, but these are HOT and ready to go...or short out, as the case may be. :-(... So the Tommycat Tip of the Day is... Separate, Isolate, and Insulate these important wire terminations. Please don't depend on the way these are terminated from the factory, as a slight flick of my finger nail easily popped off the wiring end protection. The method is up to you. A couple choices would be to use 4 wire connectors , or as I have done use heat shrink tubing. These important wires of low gauge (22?) provide pathways to full battery power, battery ground, and the regulated 5 volt power from the controller which is just rated at a tad above 100 mA. As well as electronic controller inputs, pedelac and reverse function. (which you may recall I disabled in the controller software since not using reverse) I've seen way to many instances of accidently shorting these wires and causing major damage to ether the wiring harness or controller, requiring the replacement of one or both. Just a friendly heads up! ^.^.

Here is a map of the wiring terminations...


\


Location at controller harness, same type on top harness...





I started by gaining access to the top harness wires...





Separated...





Isolated...two done here, two left to do.





And insulated...





Same on the controller harness!

















Annnnnnnnd done!





Coming next winter I'm seriously considering installing in line fuses at the controller before the wiring harness on the most important power lines... stay tuned and enjoy this great biking weather!

[Tommycat]

May be a good time to bring up another known issue. As mentioned while working with the controller software, it had a slight glitch with an export...

After successfully saving a few configurations I wanted to return to a previous set-up after some setting changes...




Found saved files...





Tried importing... but none would...get the following error.






Yep, unable to export?

Tried shortening the file names to old computer file naming size, and everything else I could think of, but no luck. Granted it's only 12 settings, not the end of the world. But was wondering if there was an easy fix? Found out that it's a known issue and doesn't work at this time. :-(

[Tommycat]

So since the beginning of the shake down cruises I've really noticed the need for a rear view mirror! Just a bad uneasy feeling of not being able to easily see what might be coming up behind you...

Looking on the forum for suggestions and getting responses to this thread got me going in the right direction.

After deciding on a Mirrycle mirror and receiving it in the mail. The first thing I think is I must have ordered just the replacement mirror as the package looked too small....?

But on inspection of the boxes contents… all is well. Some assembly is required.

Assembled...

In the assembly instructions it stresses that the bolts WILL be tight! ;-) And this is correct!

Tried a couple of mounting positions. Out and up.

Pro's: Excellent full view to the entire road behind you. Magically looks around your back to see all the way to the right curb.

Con's: For me it sticks out a bit far for comfort. Hits your arm while turning sharply left. No view of your body for reference.

Down and In.

Pro's: Good view behind you. Good reference to body position Out of the way of your arm on sharp turns. Maximum clearance.(tucked in).

Con's: May hit your knee on a sharp left turn.

So for now I'm going with the down and in position...

Grip modification for installation...Shortened for shifter on the left.

Cutting hole for mount insertion with an exacto knife. Same type of material like a thick inner tube...

Final positioning and handle bar look...

It gives a solid, shake free, wide angled view (objects are closer than they appear...) of everything behind you.

I am glad I listened to this forums excellent advice.

That said, when turning you lose sight of things behind. :-0 I just can't let the idea of a rear view camera and display go! LOL But for now this is working great.

[Tommycat]

One step forward, and two steps back? As fate would have it. While discussing the constant slow loss of tire pressure in both my tires, which it appears can not be totally stopped... See this thread... I had the back tire go flat...Argggg.

Yep, this is what happens when Instant Karma gets ya!

Found the problem... and patched, well tried actually. It's official I am no good at patching. Three tries, three failures. I have a different patch kit on hand now, so ready when needed for #4.

Now here's the rub. It was on the rim side of the tube...? After looking a bit it seems to be close to a nipple hump, but well covered by the rim tube protector strip. Did I make a mistake when installing to use some baby powder to slick things up? Hopefully just a one off.

That said, even more ominous to me was this cracking/splitting starting to show around the middle of the tire.

Longer and a bit deeper in spots, right in the middle. I really like the very smooth ride that these tires give. But in retrospect they are awfully thin feeling and a bit of tread might help keep an eye on tire wear.

So taking the advice of forum members, I'm going to install a heavy duty thorn proof tube which is slightly larger than needed. And later add some Stans after taking some data point of air leakage.

Time to get back on the road!

Comparison shot...

The new tube is defiantly more substantial in thickness and heft! I like it! Put some tread on it and who needs a tire? :-)

Internal wash...as recommended to get excess talc out before Stan's sealer.

White creamy looking water came out, well worth the effort.

WHAT!!! It goes in WHERE???

Ahhhh, no worries. Fit like a glove. So at this time I'm not going to put the Stans in. Want to get some data points for the air leakage as is. Front verses back, although the weight distribution is certainly not equal.

May just have stumbled on the potential cause of the premature tube failure. When I purposely over inflated the tube to 45 psi wanting to set the bead and accurately bleed off to the recommended 40 psi.

Found a 5 psi difference between my automatic pressure gage, and the digital one I use for accuracy. So it looks like I've always been running the tire pressures 5 psi low. hummmmmm. Will calibrate and update new pressure loss information in time...

As of 6-6-2018...To recap. At this time I just changed my back tube with a thorn proof over sized one. It's been on the bike for a week. I try to take a couple mile bike ride every day. I plan on getting digital tire pressure readings once a week. My base line is skewed right off the bat :-( as I forgot to get the ambient temperature at the time of the first test and I started off 1 PSI low. Keep in mind, I'm doing my best to take a quick, solid one time reading...with the tires cold (setting awhile). but nothings perfect. Once read for the week, will try improvements recommended then reset to 40 PSI and start again. Bike rests on single stand.

…...…......……...……..Ambient Temperature / Front Tire / Back Tire Corrective Action...…………………………..Comments:

Base Line: 5-30-2018 UNKNOWN …………….39.0 PSI...… 39 PSI.. New Back Tube Installed

6-6-2018...………….. 77 degrees ………......…35.0 PSI...… 30 PSI...Tightened Schrader Valve Cores (both)......Loss of 4 PSI front and 9 PSI back, seems excessive.

6-13-2018...………… 75 degrees...……………36.5 PSI...… 38 PSI... Tightened cores a bit more (maximum) Added new valve stem caps with seals. Making progress! Loss -3.5 PSI front -2 PSI back.

6-20-2018...………… 77 degrees...……………37.0 PSI...….38 PSI... Added Stans tire sealant to front tube. Finally adding some Stans! No change with new caps. Loss -3 PSI front -2 PSI back

6-27-2018...………… 76 degrees...……………36.5 PSI...….38.5 PSI. Added Stans to the back tube. No improvement in front :-( Loss front -3.5 back -1.5

7-4-2018...…………...80 degrees...…………….0.0 PSI...….37.5 PSI Front tire flat... :-P Ordered new thornproof tube. Loss Front -40 Back -2.5 Installed new front tube. 7-6-2018.

7-11-2018...………….88 degrees...…………….37.5 PSI......37.0 PSI Could be as good as it gets...will add last bottle of Stans to back tube. Loss front -2.5 back- 3.

7-18-2018...………….86 degrees...…………….35.0 PSI......35.0 PSI Even but low. Just added last bottle of Stans to back tube. Caps tightened. Loss front -5 back -5.

7-25-2018...………….80 degrees...…………….39.0 PSI......38.0 PSI This is closest to where I'd like to be.

Conclusions: Tubes leak. :-) My biggest gain was making sure the valve cores where tight, and that the stem caps where tight. I feel good about the thorn proof tubes from a tear and puncture resistance point.

Maybe wrenching on the nipples with the tire under pressure tore my previous light skinned tubes. Still a mystery. Added extra protection in the front. Rear will be addressed also. Perhaps the Stans tube sealer will pay off in the future stopping a leak, but I don't see a difference now. Keeping my compressor as easy to use as possible. Eyeing a bit of a bulge/deformity in the back tire (sigh). Tires will be next.

Well that's my tire air pressure data points as of now.

[Tommycat]

Had a particularly unnerving issue that cropped up that I had a bit of luck solving.


Issues: Ever see a top fuel dragster after it's burn outs, jerkily move forward to the starting line? Well my Magic Pie V5 was doing just that, without my hand on the twist throttle. :-O I mean it was ready to GO! Another symptom was that it would erratically drop out of cruise. Unsettling to say the least...


Trouble shooting: Input to throttle hall sensor- 4.37 volts dc. Throttle sensor output: no twist- .9 volts dc full twist- 3.58 volts dc motor start @ 1.25 volts dc. Mechanical operation seemed sound, solid magnet in position. Hall sensor snug and secure in housing.


Getting lucky: While pulling the hall sensor out to look it over, the wire to the ground terminal of the sensor fell off! ??? Found inadequate solder on wire and sensor terminal. Repaired.


Lesson learned: A poor throttle hall sensor connection to ground will result in a higher than normal and in this case some times erratic voltage sense line output. Causing unintentional jerking and occasional loss of cruise. Just as if you'd jerked the throttle back momentarily. Which may come in handy for someone that has less than desired output, as adding a resistor in series with the ground wire may produce acceptable results. Hall sensor output can be manipulated... Throttle wire color schemes can be as erratic as my original problem...always verify!


Regrets: Wish I'd pulled the heat shrink off the other two wires and checked them also with the assembly apart. :-/







Here is the output profile after repair...





A nice smooth linear progression using the full twist of the throttle.

This problem tweaked an interest in exactly how a hall sensor throttle operates, and prompted me to write this thread on hall sensor throttles... have a look.

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/kits/golden-motor-magic-pie/70584-guide-to-hall-sensor-throttle-operation-testing-and-modification

[Tommycat]

Ahhhh yet another repair! While I was adjusting the rear derailleur to eliminate chain skipping. I had it off and on a few times. In order to totally remove it, I had to cut off the cable end protector. And in doing so allowed the cable to unravel! Argggg, pure rookie mistake. Time to replace the shifter cable.





First off, the internet is truly a wonderful thing! I looked up videos on Shimano Twist Shifter cable replacement and bingo! It's like you've done it before! Never would have thought that all you had to do for access was to pop the cover off...incredible.

I had previously measured old cable length and ordered replacement.





On to the shifter mechanism. Mines mounted on the left side so it's upside down.





Pop open the cover...





Cut the cable in half for easier removal, and having easy access at the shifter.






Pull the old one out, and slide the new one back in it's place.





Re-secure at the rear. Adjusted as required. All set!





This was a pleasant surprise of an easy fix...