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2017 Giant Stance 2 with a BBSHD and 52 Volt Shark Pack

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    2017 Giant Stance 2 with a BBSHD and 52 Volt Shark Pack

    This thread is being started to document the cradle to grave process of building an e-bike using Luna’s BBSHD kit.

    I’ll be honest. I am not sure how Luna Cycle’s stays in business. I searched high and low for better prices. That includes ebay, craigslist, aliexpress, and even trying to buy directly from China. I lived in Taiwan for a couple of years and can hold my own with Mandarin. Factor in the fact that Luna bench tests all of their equipment and handles the defective stuff and it becomes a no brainer to order from them.

    The first step was of course to decide what bike to use. I owned and rode a giant mountain bike in Taiwan for two years. I loved it and it lasted thousands of miles. When I called an LBS (Local Bike Shop) and they said they had a 2017 Giant Stance 2 Large Frame on sale for black Friday for $1011 (almost 50% off), I couldn’t pass it up. Thankfully it happens to be just like one of the ones they sold on Lunacycle.com. This meant that it could be done which made picking the bike easy for me. I got really lucky in this regard. That prayer I said the day before asking Heavenly Father to help me find a good deal might have helped too.

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    The next step was the kit. I almost bought the Luna Cycle Anniversary BBS02 kit. I am very lucky that I did not, as it would not have worked for this bike. The bottom bracket is 89.5 mm I think, but has a press fit FSA BB-CFM92 24 on it. I have no clue what all that means. The one thing it does mean to me is that a 68mm BBS02 or a 68mm BBSHD kit would definitely not work. I think that is true of all 27.5” wheel size bikes.

    Thankfully with the money I saved on the donor bike, I was able to buy the 73-100mm (Fat) BBSHD and a lot of the upgrades I wanted. For instance the donor bike had hydraulic brakes, which meant I needed the hydraulic sensors. This is important because when using PAS (pedal assist) you have to stop the motor before switching gears, which you do by pulling the breaks a bit before switching. This is very similar to a clutch on a motorcycle. Then I saw the gear sensor and after reading reviews I decided it would be nice to not have to ‘clutch’ the break every time I wanted to switch gears. Thus a gear sensor was added to the cart.

    This brought me to the 48V vs 52V dilemma. I still had a bit of my hard earned cash left over, so I went for broke and ordered the 52V shark pack. This also meant I needed the Luna Full Color display, because it is the only one that actually displays the battery voltage. The other displays would operate on a 48V regime which would make it difficult to monitor the battery properly.

    I also added a programming cable because I love programming and can’t wait to tinker with the default settings in the BBSHD.

    As I mentioned earlier, I am not sure how Luna stays in business. I really appreciate the sacrifices they make to make it so affordable for us builders. For a mere $1,491.35 + $45 for shipping I was able to purchase the BBSHD, 52V Shark Pack, and all the extras I wanted. There is no way I could have done that on my own separately. I know because I spent months trying.

    One last thing to consider and this is going to be a challenge for sure, is how in the world to mount the BBSHD to the bike. It won’t fit naturally. I believe, but have not confirmed that the inside diameter of the BB on the Giant Stance 2 is 41mm. The outside diameter of the BBSHD is 33 mm I think. Again I am not sure. There are countless threads on the internet and here that talk about various ways to overcome this challenge. I love to tinker so it should be fun. To start I ordered this from Lunacycle.com:

    https://lunacycle.com/pf41-bb-adapte...mm-120mm-73mm/

    I tried to put in 89.5 mm as the size to cut it to, but the field only allows whole numbers, so I put in 90 mm (because they claim to cut it one mm shorter for a round 89mm) and in the notes I begged them to cut it to the right size based on their experience from building Giant Stance 2’s before, whatever that size may be. I also listed my phone number so they could bill me for more parts if needed. We’ll see what happens. Either way, it will be fun which is the whole point of building the bike.

    I ordered the kit on November 25th. Because of the holidays, the crazy holiday shipping crisis that happens every year, the flood of items in customs waiting to be cleared, and everything else going on I expect it to be a full month or so before I actually see anything. I’ll post again when the kit arrives and I do a bench test.
    Last edited by MrScience101; 12-05-2017, 12:05 PM.

    #2
    Wow! Lunacycle is amazing. I just received the shipping notification. It shipped yesterday. When I think about it, that is incredibly fast. Especially considering that if I had ordered each individual piece from China, not only would I have paid more, but it would have taken anywhere from 3-6 months to get here. I'm still not sure how Luna make's money, maybe they have an exclusive diet of ramen noodles and tuna fish? Looking forward to building this bike!

    Comment


      #3
      Decided to get a head start on the process. The package arrives tomorrow, it was delayed by a day because of the fires in California. I hope they are doing ok, can't imagine being evacuated during the Holidays. My thoughts and prayers go out to them.

      I removed the crankset from the giant stance 2. The disassembly was surprising. I searched high and low for directions and couldn't find any. The best I could figure from YouTube was that you use either an 8mm or 10mm Allen wrench to remove the crankset. Little did I know that the FSA Comet Cranksets were to be a bit trickier than that.

      I ran to Ace Hardware and learned that in the same random bins you have the nuts and bolts, they have Allen wrenches too. So I was able to get a 10mm one for $3.20 instead of paying the full amount for a whole set. I have a whole collection of Allen wrenches and didn't need quadruplets of the ones I already had.

      An old adage taught to me at church growing up was "Choose the Right", CTR for short. Turns out I should have done that when trying to remove the crankset. I started by "Choosing the Left" and quickly learned that the only thing that accomplishes is removing a plastic ring looking screw and possibly breaking it. The self extracting crank is actually on the right side, the same side the chain rings are on. Once I learned that, I was able to get it apart as you can see in the pictures. I still have to remove the press fit FSA bottom bracket. That requires a special tool. I went to ebay and ordered the IceToolz E293 (not the 294!) to help facilitate that. Now it's time to wait for the packages.

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      Last edited by MrScience101; 12-08-2017, 12:36 PM.

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        #4
        Removing the Press Fit FSA (full speed ahead) BB-CFM92 24 mm bottom bracket:

        I am impatient so of course did not wait for the right tool to arrive in the mail. Instead I looked at the pictures of the tool and decided to make my own out of PVC pipe. It was not up to the challenge as you can see in the picture. Then I went to Ace Hardware and tried one of those sheet rock triangle bolts, where the wing nut squishes together and pops out after it enters the hole. That didn't work either, the press fit was much stronger than the aluminum wings. After about four hours, I finally made one out of copper and used the smaller pvc pipe to lodge in the 'fins' to be able to pound out the bottom bracket. One of the press fit bearings came off without the bracket, so I had to use a screwdriver to pound it out. Don't think I'll be reusing the bottom bracket anytime soon.

        It looks like there are a couple of welds inside that I'll have to use a Dremel tool to smooth out.
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        Last edited by MrScience101; 12-11-2017, 03:01 PM.

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          #5
          Now comes the hardest part of the whole building process. Figuring out how to mount the BBSHD in such a way that there is no wiggle or rotation. It is something I am still trying to figure out and if you have a good idea, please let me know.

          This is the pressfit adapter from lunacycle.com here:
          https://lunacycle.com/pf41-bb-adapte...mm-120mm-73mm/

          It does not look exactly like the picture they have on their website as you can see from the picture. It has the neat little knobs cut out of it. That would be ideal, except that the other triangle adapter that comes with it cannot attach to the BBSHD because my bottom bracket is only 89.5mm long. If it was 100mm long, it'd fit perfectly and I'd probably be out riding right now. My choices are to mill down the BBSHD so that the special triangle adapter fits or figure something else out.

          The problem is the giant stance 2 has an 89.5mm bottom bracket. That would be ok if there was an 89.5 mm BBSHD, but there is not. There is only a 100mm version which I have.

          The other problem is that the BBSHD has approximately a 33 mm diameter shaft, and the bottom bracket on the giant stance 2 appears to be a 41mm diameter hole. The idea is you stick this PF41mm adapter in the bottom bracket and then the BBSHD into it.

          The adapter would not fit at first. It came just like the specifications said it would, at precisely 41 mm outer diameter and 33.5 mm innner diameter. This led to two problems.

          1. The giant stance 2 bottom bracket I have is actually only about 40.8 mm diameter, which means the PF 41mm does not fit. I solved this by getting some 80 grit sandpaper and spinning the PF 41mm with a drill while using sand paper to take off .2 mm to make it fit. It fits very tightly, which is perfect. Much easier to fix it when it is a little bigger instead of a little smaller.

          2. The BBSHD is only 33 mm diameter, this means there is about .5mm wiggle room. Meaning the thing will rock back and forth while pedaling if I can't figure out some way to put in a wedge or tighten it tight enough. I imagine that if I can tighten the BBSHD tight enough to keep it from rotating, it would also be tight enough to keep it from 'wiggling'.

          This leads to my next problem, which is how do I tighten the BBSHD to the frame of the bike?

          After reading what some folks did with the 2016 version of the bike, I decided to try the same thing. I ordered the black triangle BBSHD brackets today along with the nice steel BBSHD installation sockets from Luna Cycle. When they arrive I will take two of them and use an angle grinder to saw off the wings and just use them as washers. Because they have the little grooves it will prevent rotation.

          That brings me back to the PF 41mm. I think I am going to have to just saw off the weird knob part of the PF 41 mm and use it as a bushing (spacer) because I need the black triangle washers to press directly against the frame. If the lip of the PF 41mm adapter did not have the knobs cut into it, I might have been able to cut some grooves into it so that it would have been a bit of a washer too. WIth the knobs there though, there is no way to make it 100 percent flush.

          I'll also probably look for some really thin metal to place on top of the BBSHD when it is inserted into the PF 41mm so that it no longer has the .5 mm wiggle room.

          This is not something I can rush or mess up on, so I am going to wait for the BBSHD installation adapter and black bafang triangle brackets to arrive before installing the BBSHD.
          Last edited by MrScience101; 12-13-2017, 11:56 AM.

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            #6
            Hey! I forgot to write about the arrival! What awesome packaging it came in. I love the box within the box. It was well packed, padded, and arrived just fine with no damage. After opening it and examining the chain rings, I am extremely glad I purchased the Lekkie chain ring. It is worlds better and lighter than the stock bafang chain ring. I promptly read the instructions and charged the battery. When it was charged enough I did a bench test and it worked like a champ. Checked the voltage displayed on the color monitor with the voltage I got from my voltmeter and they matched pretty closely. My voltmeter is only accurate to +- .05 volts anyway. Can't wait to get it installed.

            I am a little embarrassed though. I looked all through it and could not find the gear sensor. I check the invoice and it wasn't there, then I went and logged into my computer and sure enough I somehow forgot to click that little button when checking out to include the gear sensor. Probably because I was trying to order it while doing three other things. Oh well, lesson learned, check that order before you click submit. I'll pick one up eventually.

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              #7
              Alright it’s time to be honest. I messed up. When I ordered the pf41 adapter here:

              https://lunacycle.com/pf41-bb-adapte...mm-120mm-73mm/

              I begged them in the notes to cut it to precisely 89.5 mm. Being the awesome people that they are, they did exactly that. As a result I cannot use the special triangle adapter without using spacers as you can see in the picture.

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              If I had to do it over again I would have left it at 100mm. Then I could have used the triangle adapter here:

              https://lunacycle.com/bbsxx-custom-l...ounting-plate/

              It would have been a perfect solution.

              In fact if using the 100mm BBSHD, I can't see having it cut to any other length than 100mm. In double fact if you read the title of the pf41mm webpage....it lists the three sizes you should choose in the title (120mm, 100mm, and 73mm). I guess I need to learn how to read. It lists some other sizes, but I really don't understand how or why you would ever cut it to a different length then the length of your mid drive kit. Because the BBSHD only comes in three sizes, it should only ever be cut to those three sizes. It is nice to have the option to order what you want, but in reality it needs to be the same size as the BBSHD shaft it is going on to be used correctly.

              Just remember FAIL is an acronym for 'First Attempt I’m Learning'.

              The kit came with some aluminum spacers, but they are slick as a whistle and don’t stop rotation at all.

              To fix my problem I ordered three Bafang triangle adapters here:

              https://lunacycle.com/parts/bafang-p...g-spare-parts/

              I’ll cut off the ‘ears’ and because the the Bafang adapters have grooves, they won’t rotate. I’ll have to cut some grooves in the pf41 adapter to fit the grooves on the bafang triangle, but hopefully it'll work. If not, I guess I'll be ordering a new pf41mm adapter. Remember to measure twice and cut(order) once...
              Last edited by MrScience101; 12-13-2017, 12:08 PM.

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              • mrmatt
                mrmatt commented
                Editing a comment
                I almost made the same mistake. I think there is an opportunity here for Luna. It would be helpful if the order page had clear instructions as to what you want to buy. I think there may be another way of solving this without buying and cutting up triangle brackets. The spacer kit doesn't have enough spacers? Is there a product idea here, aka the "uber-spacer"?

              • Calgary commuter
                Calgary commuter commented
                Editing a comment
                I'm confused about this length and your review on the PF41 page of Luna Cycle. I have a Giant Fastroad I'm going to add a BBSHD to, and it has a BB86 pressfit bottom bracket, which is 86mm wide. If I get a 100mm adapter will the triangle clamp not have anything to clamp onto other than the adapter? What I'm wondering is, if it's only clamping onto the adapter and not the bike frame itself, then the only thing stopping the motor from turning is the friction between the adapter and the bike frame. That doesn't sound as good to me as what you've done here with the triangle idea, or even the slippery spacers if they're tightened hard enough. Please enlighten me!

              • MrScience101
                MrScience101 commented
                Editing a comment
                Good point calgarycommuter. I have pondered if the way I did it is actually better because you’re right. The only thing preventing rotation would be the friction between the pf41 and the inside cylinder of the bottom bracket. There would be no ‘bite’ on the frame itself to prevent rotation. Maybe I wasn’t such an idiot after all. If I was going to use the 100mm version I would have had to spread a lot of locktight around it to prevent rotation and I’m not sure that would have been enough.

              #8
              The parts arrived today! Wooohoooo! I quickly grabbed my harbor freight 15 dollar angle grinder and sawed off the rabbit ears of two of the bafang triangles. Glad I sprung for the more expensive 55 dollars sockets from lunacycle. It really lets me crank down on the pieces to mash them together. I shaved a bit more off the shaft of the 41mm adapter so one side of the bike is touching the actual bbshd (went from 89.5mm down to around 87mm). I shimmed in some brass shims I picked up from ace hardware bewtween the pf41 mm adapter and bbshd shaft to get rid of that .5mm wiggle. They had a whole set of brass sheets for under five dollars ranging from .001 up to .005 inches thickness. Grabbed some SUGRU to place between the motor and frame of the bicycle to keep cyclic vibrations from wearing a whole in the frame. By this time daylight savings time had yet again stolen valuable hours of evening light so I had to ride in the dark in 30 degree weather. It was so much fun I didn't notice my ears and fingers freezing off until I returned. I will say that 52 volt batter is definitely overkill, it practically screams of potential power and I am worried I am going to fry the controller. It pumps up to 1500W in no time. This is weird too because it is programmed for 750W, so I am not sure how it gets up to 1500W that is displayed on the luna display. I am going to have to program some lower settings into it as the throttle is essentially on/off at this point, not much variable speed at all.

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              Last edited by MrScience101; 12-17-2017, 03:46 AM.

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                #9
                What do you do with a brand new $495 battery? You take it apart of course to see what's inside. My wife is incredibly patient. I remember when we were first married she was constantly amazed that I would buy a brand new item, that would work perfectly well, and then promptly rip it apart and tweak it to see if I could make it better. Now she just accepts the fact that it is who I am. Wonderful women she is. I love to tinker and build. I often think I enjoy it more than the finished project, that once done, sits there or is sold for less than it cost to make it. Hope that doesn't happen to this bike. I fully intend for it to replace my commuter vehicle. The battery is clearly built much better than my solder jobs I've done on cells ripped from laptop batteries as you can see from the pictures. The BMS is an added bonus. When using laptop batteries that cost $0.25 a piece I never could condone using a BMS to protect them. Course that meant every once and while I would lose a whole row of batteries, because when one went, it took the other 12 with it.

                Comment


                  #10
                  Use good judgment there is nothing wrong with exploring battery packs.

                  Shark packs I recommend being especially conscientious lining up the charge port and the key lock area as it's often tricky to get those areas fit back together properly when reassembling.

                  Be mindful of the plug for the sense wires into the BMS. Make sure it's seated well.

                  Comment


                    #11
                    Hydraulic brake sensors. Fun fun fun. They are some finicky little things for sure. The distance has to be just 'so' and you have to account for temperature differences that affect the performance of the 'hall' sensors in the brakes. The best bet is to calibrate it so that the motor 'cut off' effect happens in the 'middle' of the brake pull. I wanted to 'clutch' the left handle until I get the gear sensor installed, so I made it a little more sensitive than the right handle. Hopefully it continues working without adjustment.

                    Lessons learned:
                    Using zip ties is a joke. They move around too much. Use Sugru or something like it instead.
                    Don't let those circle magnets slam together. They are super strong and one of them shattered. Had to replace it with three little neodymium magnets I had laying around.

                    Instructions:
                    Turn the unit on and look for the indicator on the display that says whether the sensor is activated or not. Figure out where you want to attach the sensor and magnet.
                    Find a good mounting spot for the sensor and mount it to the bike.
                    After it is dry and mounted, activate the unit again and get the magnet in position. Then attach it.

                    Wait 24 hours for the Sugru to dry and then you're done.

                    Works great!
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                    Last edited by MrScience101; 12-21-2017, 03:50 PM.

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                      #12
                      Mounting the battery was probably the easiest thing to do in this build. Take apart the battery holder, measure out exactly 40mm, drill a hole, use a shorter screw then the the stock one for the top screw (it sticks up to much), undo the cables so they don't get squished, mount it, and then use some SUGRU to make the third contact point way up towards the top where there is no third screw. Total of two screws, one stock, one new, and then some SUGRU up top to kill vibration and it's done. Easy peezy.


                      Measure out exactly 40mm (at least for my bike, make sure you double check on yours!)

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                      Its soft aluminum so be careful, its easy to drill.

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                      The bike is upside down in the following picture. I am mounting the battery on the inside of the frame triangle despite what it looks like in the picture.


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                      All done. Despite what it looks like in my crappy picture, there is enough room to remove the battery by sliding it up and then out. The BBSHD in the picture is not mounted yet, it is just sitting there. I am lucky it didn't fall out while I was mounting the battery. I should have removed it before I started.

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                      Last edited by MrScience101; 12-27-2017, 04:02 PM.

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                        #13
                        Nice job on the build! Stance 2 is not an easy one that's for sure.
                        Just ordered some of that sugru you mentioned, sounds like useful stuff.

                        Comment


                        • MrScience101
                          MrScience101 commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Thank you. The build sure is a fun one, that's for sure. The sugru is useful every time I think to myself, "I need some mold-able plastic." A little pricey at 3 dollars a package though. When I first got it I freaked out because the expiration date was just three months away. Then I read on the sugru site you can store it in the fridge for up to a year or more. So that's what I do. I also knead it like bread before using it to start the process a little faster.

                        #14
                        I ended up with 3M VRB tape (stuff that gets used to stick gopros on helmets, etc.) from a customer that uses it to adhere windows on exterior aircraft equipment to stick on the sensors - they aren't going any where at this point...

                        Comment


                          #15
                          Installing the gear sensor:

                          This is an interesting piece of tech from the Czech republic. When I took it apart prior to installation, it was simply a plastic pulley that rotates when the wire is pulled through it. Because it is plastic I wonder how long it will last. Inside the plastic pulley wheel, is a magnet. When the pulley rotates because the wire makes it rotate as it slides against it, the magnet engages the sensor (hall sensor perhaps?) which disengages the motor for about a half second. Its enough to shift at most, two gears at once. When I try three it kicks on before the shift is completely done. When shifting one gear at a time it works perfectly.

                          When I first did the bench test I freaked out because unlike the brakes which have a red circle with an ! point in it to indicate when the motor cuts off, the gear sensor has no such indication. In order to do a real bench test I lifted the bike up, had my lovely assistant (wife) twist the throttle and then I pushed and pulled the cable through it to ensure that the motor cut off like it was supposed to. Worked like a champ.

                          The first time I attached it to the bike I used electrical tape and strapped it really, really tight to the shaft. Put it all together and then it didn't work! Most frustrating, so I took it all apart and bench tested it again, and it worked just fine. I then pressed really hard on the outside of the case and quickly realized that if you squeeze the plastic together too tightly the pulley inside cannot rotate because it is being squished so tightly it cannot rotate.

                          The second time I attached it with a zip tie being careful not to tighten it too tight and then gently put a piece of electrical tape to hold it in place. This seems to have done the trick and it works great now.

                          I had to buy a special wire cutter off eBay for ten dollars though because the normal wire dikes I had would squish the ends together making it impossible to thread the cable wire through. The special ones cut and leave it in mostly a circular shape. I used a nail to insert and widen the gaps a little bit to make sure the cable would slide through with no problems.

                          To remove the cable there is a plastic screw located on the side of the shifter on the handle bar that once undone and on the lowest gear the shifting cable can be pushed out of.

                          After I picked out the location I carefully slide the wire halfway out the tubing (making sure it was well away from where I was going to cut), cut a 43mm-ish size segment out of it, put two new plastic ends on the newly created tubes, and then threaded the cable back through the gear sensor and back down to the derailleur.

                          I ended up only using the plastic end caps from the cable shifting kit I bought. It was more of a backup anyway in case I messed up and had to put on an entirely new cable and tube housing.

                          I learned that there is a huge difference between the size and strength of shifting cables and housing vs brake cables and housing. Apparently the shifting cable housing has wires built into it while the shifting cable is mostly plastic. The sizes of the cables appear different too.


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