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    #31
    B Gillespie from the mtbr forum gave this response to my question "What is the best welder for TIG steel bike frame building?":

    "First, your question is somewhat akin to, "I want to buy a four door sedan, what should I buy?". There's a lot of answer to your question, so I'll cut it into a few categories.

    First--budget? Prices range from ~$1,500 to $8k+.

    IMO, features to look for are 1st--pulse and 2nd--AC.

    For thin tubing, pulse makes it way, way, WAY easier. You can certainly weld thin sheet and tubing without pulse, welders successfully did it for decades, but jeebus it is way easier, less frustrating, and prettier with pulse. When using pulse, you're going to be using the 0.8-1.7 pulses per second settings 95% of the time, so don't get too wrapped around the axle if a specific welder model is limited to say 20 or 150 pulses per second. The higher settings are cool, but not a lot of use for them in bicycle making.

    Second, if you have the budget, definitely consider a welder with AC capability so you can weld aluminum.

    If you're concerned about budget, the Lincoln Squarewave 200 is a great machine with all of the features you will need to build virtually any bike frame. Includes pulse, AC, and several other useful features. It's similar in price to the Maxstar you mentioned, but way more "usable" IMO, IE higher amperage, more duty cycle, AC, etc. The small Maxstar is designed to be a portable tig machine for field repairs such as sanitary tubing, and it's a great machine, but not necessarily the best selection for bike frame building. A lot of people start of with Miller Diversion's, and they're not bad at all, but the Lincoln beats it out in multiple factors.

    If budget isn't a concern, you can't beat a Miller Dynasty 210 DX with CPS. Although it's a $4k machine, it can run on 110-480v inputs, has a load of great features, SD card slot to allow for expansion of features (a la setting independent AC balance), and Miller tig machines have great resale. My personal setup is a Miller Dynasty 200 DX with a coolmate 1 and 20 series torch. The water cooler is kind of a love hate relationship. I love being able to weld while basically holding the cup, but listening to tit run for hours is kind of annoying. I also have an air cooled torch, but it's sitting on the shelf and never gets used, so overall I definitely prefer the advantages of water cooled setup, it's definitely not a requirement, more of a luxury.

    Honestly, I wouldn't really consider any other machine than those two. The older transformer machines (IE Miller Synchrowave) come up for sale often, and they weld great, but suck power like mad, super heavy, not portable, and limited on features such as AC wave forms, AC balance, AC frequency, etc.

    The other important factors to consider with tig is accessories and consumables.

    For accessories, invest in a great helmet such as the Speedglas 9100xxi or ESAB Sentinel. It's hard to stack dimes if you can't see.

    The other major item is torch selection, tungsten selection, tungsten preparation, filler metal selection, etc. I could go on for pages about each item, but the moral of the story is don't skimp. You'll eventually end up with the nice stuff anyways, so pay once and cry once.

    For smaller, detailed, tight tig work, you can't beat a 9/20 series torch. 9 is the air cooled version and 20 is water cooled, both use same consumables. I started out with a 26, use a 20 now, and have no clue how I welded with that giant club of a torch. For torch brands, I'd recommend CK Worldwide. Second, GET A GAS LENS SETUP for welding anything other than aluminum. For high end steel alloys and the occassional Ti job, you're going to want a variety of cup sizes ranging from 8 (.5") to 16 (1"). I use a combination of normal alumina cups for basic bitch errday welding and Mike Furick cups when I need to see better or if it's a critical weld on stainless.

    Dont skimp on filler. After battling with Harris and Radnor quality issues, I mostly use Lincoln, Hobart, American Filler Metals, and Voelkemp (sp?).

    Figure out some way to sharpen tungsten, cause jeebus you'll be sharpening often when you first start welding. With the low amp arc starts associated with thin bike tubing, you'll need to either run 1/16" electrodes or 3/32" and sharpen them to a long point. I prefer Thoriated (red) on steel, stainless, and Ti, 2% Lanthanated on aluminum. Don't get cheap electrodes, so stay away from amazon/ebay brands. CK makes a nice product. Sharpening tungsten is not very glamorous, but it's important to have a system that gets repetitive results. I use a 12v dewalt cordless drill and sander with higher grit discs and belts, but it's definitely a personal preference thing. There's a lot of ways to do it and I haven't found one that works much better unless you drop $2k and that's dumb.


    Like I wrote earlier, I could go on for pages on each item in this message, but moral of the story: you get what you pay for, don't make it harder than it has to be, make sure you're comfortable while welding, clean and prep your weld material 50x more than you thought you needed to, and keep learning. Tig is a load of fun, frustrating AF, and rewarding all at the same time. You're probably going to suck for a year, but that's ok, stick with it and things start to click.

    One more thing, watch all of Jody's videos on weldingtipsandtricks.com. Hands down best tig videos on interwebs and most of his wealth of knowledge carries over to bike welding. He also has a web store, weldmonger.com, where he sells a variety of good products. I use his tig fingers often."

    Comment


      #32
      So this is what I will be using: https://www.millerwelds.com/equipmen...-cps-907686002

      The product is called "Miller Dynasty 210 DX 120-480V, CPS", Miller part number 907686002.
      Last edited by commuter ebikes; 01-06-2018, 05:30 PM.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post
        So this is what I will be using: https://www.millerwelds.com/equipmen...-cps-907686002

        The product is called "Miller Dynasty 210 DX 120-480V, CPS", Miller part number 907686002.
        I watched a video of pulsed TIG a few months ago and was totally amazed. Here is that welder in action at around the 3.5 minute mark.

        Comment


        • calfee20
          calfee20 commented
          Editing a comment
          I'm jealous. Even though the welder is doing most of the work for you, you are going to need to practice a lot. I bought that Miller mig years ago basically for one project. The welder was $1200 and the justification was build a custom mower deck for $1500 including the price of the welder or buy a new one for $2000. Of course the payoff in the end is you still have the welder.

          I don't use the welder that often but when I do I find that I have to practice for at least 15 minutes to get the feel back and get the settings right. I only have 2 settings heat and wire speed. You on the other hand will have many more. You could buy a spooler gun and use that like a mig or set it up to do stick. I am amazed at how far the industry has come.

        • Zippy
          Zippy commented
          Editing a comment
          One of my good buddies built frames at Waterford for years, Columbus Tubing Certified, his brazing and lug work was high art. He mainly built Paramounts but he built some beautiful MTB's too and also had his own operation building BMX frames. I'll see if I can dig up some photos and scan them, real mind blowing stuff.

        • commuter ebikes
          commuter ebikes commented
          Editing a comment
          I will be looking forward to that!

        #34
        What a great response you got! Thanks for putting it up here, cross forum pollination, so to speak.

        That will be one sweet welder. Hey, when you are retired and have time to burn, you can fix stuff for folks, too. Nice pick, for a lifetime investment tool! A newer, far more capable evolution of my old Squarewave. Which isn't even in the same class, yours will have far more capability. The marvels of solid state....

        I use quality filler metal, but I've been using the cheapest imported tungsten I could find on the net, I stocked up. I have a hard time not contaminating them so need to snap off the contaminated end, then resharpen many times a day. If I'm welding a lot I might use a tungsten up in a day. That's probably an indication of poor technique, but now I wonder how much easier it might be if I used the good stuff. Hmm.

        If you are not aware, the Thoriated tungsten works great for steel, but it is radioactive, and when you sharpen it you make radioactive dust. If that freaks you out, you can use Ceriated, instead. A few other types exist, too.

        Practice gets boring, so I started making art pieces where I really didn't care how strong they were, just to get time on the machine. I am not a pro welder by any means, but that let me get a better feel for how to set the machine, how fast to move, all that stuff. I like to weld test joints on extra material and destroy them to find my settings and technique, rather than just using what the slide rule says to do. You will have lots of tube cut-offs. Even buy extra tube.

        I'd encourage you to try Silicon Bronze filler for TIG brazing on steel, just because it's such a neat and easy process. A lot like silver brazing, it can join dissimalar materials like copper and steel, too. Since you don't have to melt base metal, it's less finicky for thin stuff, and less demanding of our skills.
        Last edited by JPLabs; 01-07-2018, 08:16 AM.
        Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

        Comment


        • JPLabs
          JPLabs commented
          Editing a comment
          As a new welder, you may not be aware the welder can spew copious RF noise. The months I was welding my homebuilt car project, my neighbor and I had an agreement that I would try not to do it when he was listening to his favorite AM show at night. I knew he was a fan and warned him, I noticed it wiped out my AM and SW reception, and weaker FM and TV. So I was nice about it. He probably never would have figured out the source if I hadn't told him.

        #35
        I had planned on taking the TIG class in August, but I couldn't get off work in August. Now I will be taking (1) Chromoly Steel Brazing, (2) Intro to TIG and (3) Chromoly TIG at the UBI in Ashland, Oregon in April and May of this year, a little earlier than I thought I would be taking the TIG class.

        My boss has been really great about getting me 25-30 hours of OT every week, and my wife is cooperating with my plan to set aside all OT money toward the frame building school expenses and tools.

        I think I can get this all done in 13 months and then go back to working closer to 40 hours a week. Working little or no OT would allow me time to practice welding, notching, tube bending and learning how to use the mill and lathe.

        Don Ferris at Anvil Bikes said to call him regarding my order after I took the classes.
        Last edited by commuter ebikes; 01-11-2018, 09:45 PM.

        Comment


          #36
          Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post
          I had planned on taking the TIG class in August, but I couldn't get off work in August. Now I will be taking (1) Chromoly Steel Brazing, (2) Intro to TIG and (3) Chromoly TIG at the UBI in Ashland, Oregon in April and May of this year, a little earlier than I thought I would be taking the TIG class.

          My boss has been really great about getting me 25-30 hours of OT every week, and my wife is cooperating with my plan to set aside all OT money toward the frame building school expenses and tools.

          I think I can get this all done in 13 months and then go back to working closer to 40 hours a week. Working little or no OT would allow me time to practice welding, notching, tube bending and learning how to use the mill and lathe.

          Don Ferris at Anvil Bikes said to call him regarding my order after I took the classes.
          Your dedication and work ethic are inspiring. You set some crazy goals that sounded really expensive and time consuming, and are following through. Same way you handled your immense bike build project, so we shouldn't be surprised, but I'm glad you explain that aspect of it. The life plan changes to enable it, and the spousal contract.

          Thanks for sharing the personal examples of how you are pulling it off, with us. To me, nothing else could better demonstrate your passion and sincerity. You ,sir, are a true ebiker!
          Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

          Comment


            #37
            I am buying this: https://store.cyberweld.com/midy210d...WJiREhtsv.ucAA

            I really like the cart that holds the welder and water cooler. It has a 20 series torch as well as a wireless foot pedal.

            I don't see that this package has a gas lens setup.
            Click image for larger version

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            Comment


              #38
              OK, now, that's pretty overboard to just build 4 frames. I'm getting confused about your goals around cost, purpose, etc.
              Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

              Comment


              • commuter ebikes
                commuter ebikes commented
                Editing a comment
                I don't have any other hobbies other than ebikes. I used to work on custom cars (so fun!), but that took up too much room and a nice hot motor is at least $10K. The ebike hobby takes up less room and the parts are generally less expensive than with custom cars.

                I'm just investing in tools and training so that I can have fun in the limited spare time that I have.

                I would imagine that I will build more than four frames, but I will have to sell them because I definitely cannot fit more than 4 bikes in my garage.

                At UBI, you leave the 2 week class with a frame you built. The first frame that I build is for my middle son, the second frame is for my shop to test electrical systems, and the third one (which will be Ti) has no home yet. I would like to make a pedal road bike, but it wouldn't fit in the garage.
                Last edited by commuter ebikes; 01-15-2018, 08:49 PM.

              • JPLabs
                JPLabs commented
                Editing a comment
                OK, you envision more use after, and a long term love affair with the tools, I see the logic now.

              • commuter ebikes
                commuter ebikes commented
                Editing a comment
                I really do love tools. I never beat myself up for spending money on tools.

              #39
              I decided on the mill and lathe. The jury is still out on the band saw.

              Mill: http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-X-...ce=grizzly.com

              Lathe: http://www.grizzly.com/products/13-x...ce=grizzly.com

              Bandsaw: http://www.grizzly.com/products/Vert...ce=grizzly.com

              Now you see why I won't be able to fit more bikes in my (landlord's) small 2-car garage. The garage is going to be very crowded.

              My local community college has all kinds of night classes in machining, welding and the like.
              Last edited by commuter ebikes; 01-16-2018, 08:33 PM.

              Comment


                #40
                Here is B Gillespie providing some tips on filler (tungsten electrodes):

                "Filler is definitely a personal preference thing, but I'd suggest 1-2 pounds of 70 S-2 in a good brand, with .035", .045", and 1/16" diameters. Start off with larger diameter and work your way down as your improve. There's a bunch of debate on proper filler for 4130 tubing, but 70 S-2 is just fine. Sometimes I'll cap with 312 just to get the colors, but 70 S-2 is used on tons of chromo welding for aircraft and race cars. For more exotic stuff like aluminum and Ti, you'll have to pick the right filler for whatever you're welding, so I'd wait to buy that. If you want to practice on aluminum, which I would suggest later on because it's not easy, basic 4043 is fine. FYI, Blue Demon is supposedly decent stuff and sells 1# quantities on Amazon, haven't used any yet. The problem with a lot of the fancy filler metals is that they are only sold in 10# quantities and it takes forever to burn it up.

                Since you mentioned Ti, that adds a few more items to the list, namely a second bottle for argon purging/backing, second flowmeter for same, and I'd also pick up the Furick #16 BBW cup and Ti shield."
                Last edited by commuter ebikes; 01-15-2018, 09:13 PM.

                Comment


                  #41
                  B Gillespie continues on recommendations for a TIG bicycle frame setup:

                  "The TIGRunner complete package is definitely an easy way to get started and ensure you have everything to go out of the gate, and the wireless foot control would definitely be handy. The Dynasty is definitely more than good for welding thin, "exotic" metals, arguably the best. Other than price, it would be tough to find a negative comment on the Dynasty series.

                  Although the (YouTube welding) videos may not speak directly to welding bicycle frames, the principles are the same and directly correlated. Another tip, IMO, practice on a little thicker metal before trying to weld .035" wall tubing. I think if I would have started out on tubing that thin, it would have amped up the frustration level even more. You need to get the basics of forming a puddle, adding filler, tight arc, not dabbing, etc. before you jump into welding coped thin tubes (YMMV). If you could get a smaller drop piece of 10 ga hot rolled pickled and oiled sheet at a metal supplier, clean it up, and cut it into strips, that would make for convienent practice pieces. With tig, scotch brite, sand paper, files, sanding stars, acetone, and patience are your friends.

                  Let me say again, the TIGRunner package is (really nice) and anyone on here would be tickled to turn it on every day. It's definitely much more than sufficient for bicycle frame welding.

                  For cart options, there's a few different options. The Miller cart works great. Paul from ZT Fab also makes a cool option and his kits are a great way to get some extra hood time. With the drawer kit, it would have nearly everything within reach and a small footprint.
                  https://www.all-a-cart.com/product-p...r-welding-cart

                  Personally, I have a ton of tig junk and like to have it all within reach. Therefore, I use the Vulcan cart from Harbor Freight, but she's a big girl so buyer beware if you have a small workspace. The same cart is sold by a few other companies under different names; it's actually a quality item compared to everything else China Freight. https://www.harborfreight.com/weldin...net-63179.html

                  Own my bottles and use a 300 for main Argon supply and a 125 for back purging or a backup when the 300 runs out on a Sunday. 300's are way heavy and a pain to move. For the small amount of welding in bike frames, a 125-200 size should last you a while. You can always start off smaller and upgrade when you're empty and trade.

                  Coolmate 1.3: https://store.cyberweld.com/mico13cosy30.html + (2) coolant https://store.cyberweld.com/lowconan.html

                  Wireless foot control: https://store.cyberweld.com/miwifocosy30.html

                  Torch: CK Worldwide 20 series flex head, 12.5' superflex lines, part number CK212SF FX. CK CK212SF FX TIG Torch Pkg 250A Flex, 12-1/2' SuperFlex

                  I've always had good luck with Victor gauges and flowmeters. Made in Denton, TX. https://store.cyberweld.com/mehrf14refl.html

                  Mike Furick's cups are the jam. I've really enjoyed welding with mine.

                  https://furickcup.com/product/fupa-1...ss-with-cover/
                  Comes with 1 single #8pro cup and mounting o-rings. The #8pro cup is an AC/DC polarity consumable with a 200 amp rating and has an inner diameter of .500 / 12.5mm. It is commonly used for most mild steel and stainless steel applications where good gas coverage is wanted and arc stability is critical. The #8 size cups are a great all around size for most industrial, Hot Rod and hobbyist applications. It will require 15-20 CFH of argon flow. You can run 3/32-2.4mm or 1/16 – 1.6 mm tungsten with this cup. Please do not “walk the Cup” with any of the Furickcup line of Borosilicate glass cups. #8 pro Mounting If you have a #17, #18 or #26 size torch you will need a #17 kit , If you have a #9 or #20 torch you will need to have a 45V44 gas lens. If you have one already you can use it. Keep in mind that import brands yield lower results. Please see identify page for torch description

                  The ally 5 cup comes with 1 cup mounted on collet body and insulator needed to mount on 9 or 20 torch. The Ally5 cups is an AC/DC polarity cup and has an amperage rating of 200 amps, It is my “go to” cup when im welding thinner aluminum assemblies and need great visibility. It is made of Quartz laboratory grade glass and can withstand the high heat environments associated with welding on AC. Be careful not to slam cup and we do not recommend “walking the cup” with any Furickcups made of glass. All glass cups are subject to pick up dirt and debris as are ceramic style cups. Use these accordingly and try to refrain from welding on dirty /oily applications that would spit back at glass and impede visibility.


                  I'd also pick up 2-3 45v44 gas lens', a few standard collet bodies for aluminum, a pack of #8 gas lens cups, and a pack of standard #5 cups for aluminum. Pyrex cups look fancy and allow you to "see through the cup", but they also break really easy. I mostly use a standard alumina gas lens #8 or the Fupa ceramic. I'll get part numbers for the basic stuff tomorrow out of my Airgas catalog.

                  Awesome gloves for low amp tig work: 1488 | John Tillman Co.

                  If you wear eyeglasses, I've heard the Speedglas has cheaper cheater lens'. The Sentinel doesn't allow for a respirator, but that only matters if you're welding stainless (ie Reynolds 9xx series).
                  Speedglas: https://store.cyberweld.com/3mspwehe91au.html
                  Sentinel: https://store.cyberweld.com/esab-sen...000008001.html "


                  Thanks again to B Gillespie on the mtbr forum for this detailed info.
                  Last edited by commuter ebikes; 01-15-2018, 09:17 PM.

                  Comment


                    #42
                    I got off work unusually early so I shot over to the welding supply store (Bay Airgas) around the corner from my work. The best price the guy could give me for this https://store.cyberweld.com/midy210dxcps.html was $4,343 including tax. I said okay even though one can buy it online for $3,800.

                    So I spent an extra $543 to buy it from a brick and mortar place. Bay Airgas claimed that their price was $3,707. I think they charged me $3,975 plus tax. So Bay Airgas marked it up about $268 if they were being truthful about their cost. Anyway, it is water under the bridge because it is a done deal (they placed the special order and ran my credit card).

                    Part of the reason I like the idea of buying it from a local shop is that I won't have to deal with any carrier damages. One of my jobs at UPS is being a damage clerk so I was worried about carrier abuse to the heavy, expensive item.

                    I didn't buy the complete package pictured in Post #37 above because I am choosing a different torch, nozzles (i.e. cups), regulator/flowmeter, and tungsten electrodes.
                    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 01-16-2018, 06:44 PM.

                    Comment


                      #43
                      For all the other welding parts (steel, aluminum and Ti ready), I have this:

                      Cart:
                      https://store.cyberweld.com/mismruca30.html $561

                      Coolmate 1.3:
                      https://store.cyberweld.com/mico13cosy30.html $676

                      Coolant:
                      https://store.cyberweld.com/lowconan.html 2 X $38

                      Wireless Foot Control:
                      https://store.cyberweld.com/miwifocosy30.html $671

                      Torch:
                      CK CK212SF FX TIG Torch Pkg 250A Flex, 12-1/2' SuperFlex $136

                      Regulator/Flowmeter:
                      https://store.cyberweld.com/mehrf14refl.html 2 X $115

                      Furick Cups:
                      https://furickcup.com/product/bbw-kit-with-cover-80/ $80
                      https://furickcup.com/product/fupa-1...ss-with-cover/ $60
                      https://furickcup.com/product/8-pro-cup/ $10
                      https://furickcup.com/product/ally5-cup-for-920/ $25

                      Furick cup for Ti:
                      (Furick #16 BBW cup and Ti shield link needed)

                      45V44 gas lens:
                      https://www.zoro.com/miller-electric...45/i/G4335825/ $11

                      Collet bodies (size to match electrode):
                      https://thetoolcrate.com/products/ck...rd-collet-body $89

                      Pack of #8 Gas Lens Cups:
                      https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-ti...s-10-pack.html $15

                      Standard #5 cups:
                      Airgas - RAD64005427 - Radnor® Model 10N49 5/16" Standard #5 Alumina TIG Nozzle 10 X $2

                      Gloves:
                      Airgas - TIL1488L - Tillman™ TrueFit™ Large Top Grain Kevlar® And Goatskin Super Premium Grade TIG Welders' Glove With Elastic Cuff, V Design Thumb And Hook And Loop Closure $16

                      Helmet:
                      https://store.cyberweld.com/3mspwehe91au.html $385

                      Filler (is this the right material?):
                      Airgas - HARE70S2603POP - 1/8" X 36" ER70S-2 Harris® 70S-2 Carbon Steel TIG Welding Rod 3# Box
                      2 X $6
                      Last edited by commuter ebikes; 02-02-2018, 05:58 PM.

                      Comment


                        #44
                        Now I have purchased the torch https://www.amazon.com/CK-CK212SF-To...2%27+SuperFlex , wireless foot pedal https://store.cyberweld.com/miwifocosy30.html and gas lens https://store.cyberweld.com/we45gasl...RoCPw8QAvD_BwE

                        From the comments section on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AT1-a1ByME I found this informative tidbit:

                        "Kristofer Henry of 44 bikes has skill and beautiful custom frames. He's been welding for decades and I've followed his settings for pulse tig welding. The settings for a dynasty dx are:

                        • Tube to Tube (TT, DT, ST) Typically is: 51-56 Amps @ 1.2 PPS / Peak @ 60% / Background @ 20%
                        • Tube to BB / HT: 60-68 Amps @ 1.2 PPS / Peak @ 60% / Background @ 20%
                        • Bridges seem to be 40-44 Amps @ 1.2 PPS / Peak @ 60% / Background @ 20%

                        (although I believe he's now pulsing at 1.7 pps... 1.2 is a good starting point..at least for me).

                        What really made the difference for me was really being aware of torch angle (almost 90 degrees) and torch distance (I'm so close to the puddle it sizzles like bacon).

                        And I've settled with the lay-in method after jumping back and forth.

                        I find doing shorter runs to maintain the torch angle and distance is what has made the difference for me. If it sizzles like bacon, without touching the pool, I'm laughing.

                        All those variables to deal with in such a small area make it pretty challenging. And a small shift can make such a huge difference."


                        As you can imagine,
                        TT = top tube
                        DT = down tube
                        ST = seat tube
                        BB = bottom bracket
                        HT = head tube, and
                        PPS = pulses per second
                        Last edited by commuter ebikes; 01-21-2018, 10:05 AM.

                        Comment


                          #45
                          Additional info (again, from B. Gillespie, a framebuilder) regarding electrode size and collet/gas lens part numbers:

                          "Regarding electrode size, I'd think 1/16" and 3/32" should cover it. I use 3/32" for nearly everything and sharpen to a finer point for thinner materials."

                          "20 Series Torch Collets:
                          1/16" electrode collet for small gas lens (45V43) or normal collet body: 13N22
                          3/32" electrode collet for small gas lens (45V44) or normal collet body: 13N23

                          20 Series Torch small Gas Lens:
                          Small gas lens for 1/16" electrode size: 45V43 (to be used on steel with small gas lens cups, i.e. #8)
                          Small gas lens for 3.32" electrode size: 45V44 (to be used on steel & ti, either with small gas lens cups or the Furick cups)

                          20 Series Collet Bodies:
                          Collet body for 3/32" electrode size: 13N28
                          (What you will use on aluminum with the #5 cups)"

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