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Videos from both TIG Steel and Steel Brazing Frame Building Classes at UBI

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    commuter ebikes
    Super Moderator

  • commuter ebikes
    commented on 's reply
    You are putting out a lot of critical and valuable information here! I appreciate it.
  • commuter ebikes
    Super Moderator

  • commuter ebikes
    commented on 's reply
    There were definitely some issues with that instructor. Rich Bernoulli is the Director of Framebuilding for UBI, and he does teach the Ti classes. He teaches almost all of the framebuilding classes in Portland and Ashland. The 2 week Ti class is $3,995.

    I am inclined to go into detail as to why I would take a framebuilding class anywhere but UBI, but I will stop myself from flaming on this forum. I did some flaming about him on the Welding Tips and Tricks Forum, but nobody should flame anywhere. I just want to encourage, inspire and help--like Jody does! Jody is such a class act.
    commuter ebikes
    Super Moderator
    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 08-09-2018, 07:07 PM.
  • commuter ebikes
    Super Moderator

  • commuter ebikes
    commented on 's reply
    The comments flagged as spam get approved within a few hours. Sorry about that.

    I will get an O/A setup just as soon as I can find a place for the acetylene other than my home or storage unit. I can have acetylene here on the weekends; maybe I could just rent a tank for the weekend when I need it, or store the tank at a friend's house.
  • geckocycles
    Newbie

  • geckocycles
    commented on 's reply
    They marked my long winded comment as SPAM and didn't post my reply for whatever reason. So here is a short version.

    I don't see how you can build a frame with out a Oxy setup.

    That is way too much money for that instruction. I hope he isn't doing the Ti class.

    It is one thing to practice with those bad habits but to teach them is another story.

    I wanted to make it clear that I did not take the UBI class, but when I was working for Zinn, he took the class and came back to the shop and taught me. I had some amazing mentors back in the day. All of which everyone has heard of. My specialty is brazing. I have only TIG welded a little more than a hundred frames. I have not had a single frame failure in the more than 400 bikes built, that has been brought to my attention anyway. I am not proud of my TIG welds looks but will stand behind the quality.
  • geckocycles
    Newbie

  • geckocycles
    commented on 's reply
    I don't see how you can build a frame without an Oxy setup for so many things like brazons, alignment, stress reliving, dropouts and lighting my crack pipe. LOL

    It is one thing to have your own ways but when you are an instructor you must go over the top on proper procedures. Now if you are just practicing on scrap that is one thing but when those bad habits are taught that is another thing entirely and especially for the coin. I hope he isn't teaching the Ti class. It was very good back in 1990 and I learned how to be over careful no matter how much time it takes. I use sonic cleaner for tubes and wipe wire before welding. Wire brush between starts, clip weld wire end and file stuck tungsten before continuing. I guess I'm not trying to make money as much as put out the best quality I can. I'm not that good of a TIG welder, in my opinion anyway, but my practices are sound I feel. I had and do have some of the best mentors in the trade and I guess I am lucky in that respect.

    That is a hell of allot of money for that instructor especially. Sounds like you are really busy in everyday life but I would try to intern with someone and be a sponge. But then again, there is always Jody and Joe Pie for your machining. LOL

    I want to make clear that I did not take the UBI course. I was building bikes for Zinn and he took the Ti class and brought back his learnings and taught me when he returned. My specialty is fillet brazing and was taught buy RC at Mantis, Greg Diamond, MIke Celmens and picked a whole lot of other brains in the industry like Ross, and Scott, Nobilette and the list goes on. Chris King taught me how to Oxy weld using steel filler wire and use machine tools when I worked for him. His frames were welded that way.
    geckocycles
    Newbie
    Last edited by geckocycles; 08-09-2018, 08:20 AM.
  • commuter ebikes
    Super Moderator

  • commuter ebikes
    commented on 's reply
    Yes, he should wire brush between starts. I am definitely not presenting his technique as gospel.
  • commuter ebikes
    Super Moderator

  • commuter ebikes
    commented on 's reply
    That is some excellent knowledge there. I also think that brazing is superior, but I cannot have an acetylene tank at home due to my wife's home business.

    The school did not want me to post the videos on YouTube, but I did anyway because I had buyer's remorse for the $6,600 tuition that I put on my credit card. I had buyer's remorse because the instructor Rich Bernoulli was burned out, in my opinion. Also, about half of the instructors at UBI in Ashland seemed to hate ebikes. I would never go back to any framebuilding classes at UBI; there are a lot of other framebuilding schools out there.

    The mechanics classes at UBI in Portland were amazing, though--highly recommended. One of the instructors there, Richard Belson rode an ebike to the school every day.
    commuter ebikes
    Super Moderator
    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 08-09-2018, 06:55 PM.
  • geckocycles
    Newbie

  • geckocycles
    replied
    Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post
    Using a vertical milling machine to miter a steel seat stay where it joins the seat tube: https://youtu.be/DavzTVaMKGw
    My CS and SS fixture holds both tubes at the same time.
    I don't like rotating the head on my V Mill unless it was dedicated to mitering. Rotary tables holding fixtures is way more accurate and then frees up the mill for other things and keeping the head trammed for quick machine work other than mitering.

    He is getting away with lots here being the tubing he is cutting isn't that hard. He has way to much over hang for heat treated thin wall tubing on many of his setups. There are tubesets that require the miters to be ground. Again the sacrificial machine away from all your good machines is in order for that hard stuff.

    Leave a comment:

  • geckocycles
    Newbie

  • geckocycles
    replied
    Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post
    Tack welding a 4130 chromoly tube to a bottom bracket: https://youtu.be/VlA_OItc70I
    Again...hardly a tack. Tacking should be very quick with as little heat put into the jig as possible. Stresses are built up into the tube and put undue stress on the jig. When you jig weld you will get more implosion of the tube where the miter meets plus the tube is not allowed to expand and contract putting lots of strain on the tube, especially in the heat effected zone.

    Leave a comment:

  • geckocycles
    Newbie

  • geckocycles
    replied
    Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post
    Lay wire technique and pulse welding on thin steel tubing: https://youtu.be/fABXYqVCFlw
    You should not continue welding after sticking the tungsten as he did on start. Even though it was very minor a small piece surely broke off and is in the weld now. Not good especially on Ti. You can get away with lots on steel though. It just isn't good practice.

    Leave a comment:

  • geckocycles
    Newbie

  • geckocycles
    replied
    Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post
    TIG welding steel chain stays to bottom bracket in an Arctos frame fixture: https://youtu.be/JuiOUqz1qsQ
    Not fond of his welding sequence or lack of wire brushing between starts. His tacks are more like welds. I weld outside of the jig in a park stand though. To each his own. There are many ways to skin a cat, what ever works for you.

    Leave a comment:

  • geckocycles
    Newbie

  • geckocycles
    replied
    Originally posted by commuter ebikes View Post
    Last one for now: using a horizontal mill to cut a notch for the dropout tab in a chainstay: https://youtu.be/OwjCCvvlBos
    I use abrasive wheels for this in a dedicated piece of shit china bench top knee mill I picked up for cheep. Much faster and I have never screwed a tube up when a tooth catches thin heat treated material. It is good to have sacrificial machines for the dirty work you don't want to use good machines for.

    Leave a comment:

  • geckocycles
    Newbie

  • geckocycles
    replied
    This is really cool. Videos weren't allowed back in the day before cell phones.

    I have only watched one video so far but I don't see this guy dong any hand feeding the wire. While you watch YouTubes, get a piece of wire in your glove hand and practice feeding the wire through your fingers and then try keeping the wire tip at one point while feeding. Kind of like holding a baseball or football all the time while you socialize or sleep.

    In the Ti Tig class you will learn to fusion weld Ti first then lay beads over it. I eventually fusion welded steel frames before brazing. Had some issues tig tacking just a few spots before brazing so I started fusion welding first. Lots of extra work for sure. I prefer brazing over tig. Tig bikes break just behind welds and brazed bikes bend before snapping. I walked 17 miles in SB back country carrying a sponsors bike that the HT basically came off after I stuffed it in a creek bank. I saw a Klien Attitude TT snap in half and one end of the tube ended up in the guys spleen at Norba Nationals in SB.
    I anneal all my TIG only frames now.
    geckocycles
    Newbie
    Last edited by geckocycles; 08-08-2018, 07:35 AM.

    Leave a comment:

  • commuter ebikes
    Super Moderator

  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    Last one for now: using a horizontal mill to cut a notch for the dropout tab in a chainstay: https://youtu.be/OwjCCvvlBos

    Leave a comment:

  • commuter ebikes
    Super Moderator

  • commuter ebikes
    replied
    Rear of chain stay prepped for brazing to dropout tab: https://youtu.be/OwXFs72mIRg

    Leave a comment:

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