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Pictures of my first brazed frame, a fat bike.

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    Pictures of my first brazed frame, a fat bike.

    I thought that I had already posted pictures of this frame on the forum, but I couldn't find where I had done so. I think I was in a hurry to get the frame to the powder coater.

    This is a 4130 chromoly steel frame that can fit both Vee Snowshoe 2XL tires and a 70T chainring. It has a 190mm long, 48mm O.D. head tube, 100mm Standard English bottom bracket, 190mm vertical dropouts, and ISO mounts.

    The head tube angle is 72 degrees and the seat tube angle is 72.25 degrees. The bottom bracket drop is 95mm. The chainstay length is 520mm (the longest chainstay length allowable in a standard Anvil frame fixture). The fork offset (rake) is 43mm.

    I used the thickest tubes within reason. The down tube is 38mm, the top tube is 35mm, and the seat tube is 33.5mm for a 31.6mm seatpost. The down and top tube are .9/.6/.9mm double butted, and the seat tube is externally butted.

    I made the front triangle as large as possible because I will be using large Bluetooth speakers in the water bottle cages. As such, I can barely stand over the bike with my 32" inseam. A 32" inseam, by the way, translates to a 34.75" standover height. I buy 32" inseam pants, but the 34.75" standover height at the top tube has the top tube just starting to press into my crotch (while stopped at a stoplight, for example).

    The braze-ons include bosses for a cargo rack as well as braze-ons for two multiconductor cables along the bottom side of the top tube, rear hydraulic hose and rear derailleur.

    Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 1 week ago.

    #2
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    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 1 week ago.

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      #3
      Click image for larger version

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      Last edited by commuter ebikes; 1 week ago.

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        #4
        Click image for larger version

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        Last edited by commuter ebikes; 1 week ago.

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          #5
          Click image for larger version

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          Last edited by commuter ebikes; 1 week ago.

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            #6
            Here are some of the parts to be used:

            Zelena Vozila Cromotor with 190mm dropouts at 72 nominal Volts

            Surly Ice Cream Truck fork (150mm thru axle) https://surlybikes.com/parts/forks/i...truck_150_fork

            Surly Clown Shoe front rim http://www.bikeman.com/RM0040.html

            Salsa 150mm thru axle 32h front hub https://www.modernbike.com/salsa-fat...50mm-32h-black

            Origin8 26", 80mm wide rear rim http://www.origin8.bike/product-desc...odel_uid=10931

            13 gauge spokes in rear, 14 gauge in front

            Vee Snowshoe 2XL tires, black https://www.veetireco.com/listings/f...-snowshoe-2xl/

            26" X 3.8-5.0" tubes https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/e...tubes/p/12252/

            Eclypse 75mm front rim strip http://www.bikeman.com/HAW-RIMS2006.html

            Eclypse 64mm rear rim strip http://www.bikeman.com/HAW-RIMS2002.html

            Mirrycle mirrors http://www.bikeman.com/MI3002.html

            Two water bottle cages http://www.bikeman.com/WC4206.html

            Black Singleator chain tensioner with the pulley powder coated black http://www.bikeman.com/CH8899.html

            Chris King Inset1 headset https://chrisking.com/products/37

            Ritchey 30 degree, 80mm length stem: http://www.bikeman.com/SM4158.html

            Lyen Mark 3 24 FET 4110 controller (72V)

            Half twist throttle and multifunction switch from Edward Lyen

            Surly Mr. Whirly crankset with 175mm crank arms and Moonlander spindle https://surlybikes.com/parts/drivetrain/mr_whirly_crank

            Black-Ops platform pedals https://www.niagaracycle.com/categor...4PqRoC-ATw_wcB

            70T chain Tri-Sled chainring http://trisled.com.au/product/70-too...t-guards-copy/

            13-32T 5-speed freewheel http://www.interlocracing.com/casset...eels-567-speed

            5-speed thumb shifter http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/slm2t

            5-speed derailleur http://www.sunrace.com/en/products/detail/rdm15

            Tektro Dorado HD-E710 203mm hydraulic brakes http://www.tektro.com/products.php?p=35

            RaceFace Turbine 3/4" riser handlebars https://www.raceface.com/products/de...-3-4-rise-bars

            ESI Extra Chunky 34mm grips http://www.bikeman.com/HT5320.html?u...YaAoWyEALw_wcB

            RaceFace Turbine 31.6mm seatpost https://www.raceface.com/products/de...bine-seatposts

            Two Lumina detachable headlights https://www.niterider.com/product/lu...ed-1100-boost/

            Two Lumina flashing rear tail lights https://www.niterider.com/product/sentinel-150/

            and homemade torque plates, tire liners, controller passive heat sink, luggage rack and battery boxes.
            Last edited by commuter ebikes; 2 weeks ago.

            Comment


              #7
              Did you buy a stock of tapered tubing and lugs, too? There seem to be some specialized tube sections, like the chainstays. Where are those from, or did you make them from simple tube?

              Did you just build this one, since school, too? This plus the TIG frame, in a few weeks?!
              Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

              Comment


                #8
                When you go the the frame building classes at United Bicycle Institute, you make a frame in each two week class. I made this frame in the Steel Brazing class in April 2018 and the TIG (city bike) frame in the Steel TIG class in May 2018.

                The chainstays and seatstays are indeed bicycle specific parts, and the school has a pretty good selection. Nova http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-frame-tubing/ is a good source for bicycle tubes, chainstays and seatstays.

                I buy my dropouts, derailleur hangers, head tubes and bottom brackets from Paragon Machine Works. I buy my dummy axles from Anvil Bikes and that will also be my choice of fixtures.

                I like a Park Tool HTR-1 https://www.parktool.com/product/hea...ing-set-htr-1b for head tube reaming and facing, a Park Tool BTS-1 https://www.parktool.com/product/bot...cing-set-bts-1 for BB chasing and facing, and a Chadwick adjustable seat tube reamer, PN 00290 (1 1/8" to 1 1/4" (28.575mm to 31.75mm)) on this page http://www.chadwickreamers.com/angle...ure=fractional.

                I would not be able to make these frames at home yet because I am still saving for the Anvil fixtures as well as the HTR-1 and seat tube reamer above.

                I would recommend anybody to attend frame building school, but next time I would choose a different school such as:
                (1) where I will go next: http://www.framebuildingschool.com/
                (2) where I will go after that, brazing in Canada http://flashbackfab.com/frame-building-school/
                (3) brazing in the UK https://thebicycleacademy.org/
                (4) good for aluminum http://www.brewracingframes.com/bicy...g-classes.html

                You never want to take a 1 week class such as http://waltworks.com/framebuilding-school/. One week is not enough time. Even two weeks is not enough time.

                I would go back to UBI for the titanium frame building class after Rich Bernoulli has moved on because he appeared to be burned out on teaching. I went to five years of college to be a teacher, and I burned out after only 2 1/2 years so I definitely sympathize.

                At any school, make sure to take a lot of written notes during the instruction, recopy the notes every night and follow up with questions on those the next morning. I thought that listening intently would be enough, but that was not the case.

                The more difficult the material, the more you need to take notes. I did fine just listening intently in the mechanics classes at UBI, but my failure to take and rewrite notes in the frame building classes was painful for both myself and the instructors.
                Last edited by commuter ebikes; 2 weeks ago.

                Comment


                • JPLabs
                  JPLabs commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Thanks for helping me with the timeline and explaining your materials.

                #9
                I found some higher res pictures on my computer. I replaced the original photos in this thread with the higher res photos and now I will add four more photos.

                The chainring is a 70T, and the tire is a Vee Snowshoe 2XL, 31.5" O.D. and 5.05" width. The motor is a Cromotor with 190mm dropouts with a 5-speed freewheel.

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                Last edited by commuter ebikes; 1 week ago.

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                  #10
                  Super interested in how you got that 70T chainring to fit. I see on the parts that you used a Mr. Whirly and Moonlander spindle. That makes for a 160mm spindle, if I am reading the diagrams right @ the Surly site. I am a fat bike commuter as well so I understand needing a gear setup that virtually nobody else wants to put on a fat bike.

                  I am not trying to fit a 70T, which is good as I am working with a chromoly Chumba Ursa Major which has short stays. I'm trying to fit a 46T up front. I have a bottom bracket with a 177mm spindle and I can use a spacer to make it an 'effective' 180. I have a Sram triple crank en route that I believe will - once I remove the two inner wheels - let me fit a 42T and likely my target 46T - with that spacer.

                  So... am I reading those diagrams right? You are working with a 160mm spindle and you are getting that 70T to fit because of the spindle length and the long chainstay length? Any chance of seeing an underside view of the BB with the BB/spindle/cranks/chainring installed? If I thought I could make it fit I'd jump on the Surly parts in a minute over/above the Sram.

                  Comment


                    #11
                    Originally posted by MoneyPit View Post
                    Super interested in how you got that 70T chainring to fit. I see on the parts that you used a Mr. Whirly and Moonlander spindle. That makes for a 160mm spindle, if I am reading the diagrams right @ the Surly site. I am a fat bike commuter as well so I understand needing a gear setup that virtually nobody else wants to put on a fat bike.

                    I am not trying to fit a 70T, which is good as I am working with a chromoly Chumba Ursa Major which has short stays. I'm trying to fit a 46T up front. I have a bottom bracket with a 177mm spindle and I can use a spacer to make it an 'effective' 180. I have a Sram triple crank en route that I believe will - once I remove the two inner wheels - let me fit a 42T and likely my target 46T - with that spacer.

                    So... am I reading those diagrams right? You are working with a 160mm spindle and you are getting that 70T to fit because of the spindle length and the long chainstay length? Any chance of seeing an underside view of the BB with the BB/spindle/cranks/chainring installed? If I thought I could make it fit I'd jump on the Surly parts in a minute over/above the Sram.
                    A 177mm spindle is a lot of length to work with. I measured the length my spare Moonlander spindle & I posted my 156.1mm measurement below.

                    I did a full scale paper drawing for the bike. The BB/chain stay/dropout view is an aerial view. I uploaded that section of the drawing below.

                    The BB is 100mm & I use a stock Surly Mr. Whirly crankset with 175mm crank arms.

                    I use as many BB spacers as I need to have the crank arms clear the chain stays, but I insist on the crank fully engage the splines of the spindle. If I don’t have full engagement on those splines, I won’t use that crank set.

                    My choice of chain ring size comes after (1) I have obtained a frame that fits Vee Snowshoe 2XL tires and (2) achieved the above referenced full engagement of the crank arm onto the spindle splines on both sides of the bike. I will then use the largest chain ring that fits up to 70T. For my purposes, any chain ring taller than 70T has no application.

                    I use the Surly 58/110BCD spider to move out the chainring as far as possible. When you have a Mr. Whirly crankset, a 1X setup (single chain ring) and that 58/110BCD spider, you have choices as to how far in or out you place the chain ring. I always move it out as far as possible! That spider is really cool how you can flip it around to move the chain ring further out.

                    When building the bikes, I definitely have a good selection of BB spacers on hand. They make them in thicknesses as low as 0.5mm, so you can really dial it in. I must take the crank set off and on a dozen times messing with the BB spacers.

                    I had to dimple the chain stays to be able to fit both a 5.05” wide tire and still use a 70T chain ring. You can see the dimples on the inside of the chain stays in some of the photos above.

                    I am unable to show you a picture of the bottom assembly because the frame is still at the powder coater. It has been there for two months, and it will still be there for another month or two. The powder coater that I use does a great job, but they are so busy. The work that they do is worth waiting for.

                    I will post plenty of pictures (in this thread) when I get back the powder coated parts and assemble this bike. I have all of the parts waiting here, ready to go.

                    By the way, as I was building the frame I was not sure that the 5.05” wide tires and 70T chain ring would fit. It could have turned out that I would have had to of run a more narrow tire and/or a smaller chain ring. If I would have had to run more narrow tires, I would have been very disappointed.

                    Wide dropouts are a great start for fitting a wide tire--my dummy axle is 192mm. I also made the chain stay length as long as the Anvil Bikes frame fixture would allow (520mm). A long chain stay length helps to fit a fat tire.

                    I'm glad you are running a 1X setup. I hate front derailleurs.
                    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 25 minutes ago.

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                      #12
                      A Moonlander spindle is approximately 156.1mm, just a little too long for my digital calipers.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      spindle.PNG
                      Last edited by commuter ebikes; 1 hour ago.

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                        #13
                        Here is the chain stay drawing:

                        Click image for larger version

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                        Last edited by commuter ebikes; 51 minutes ago.

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                          #14
                          And the chain stay as seen from the side with the 95mm BB drop. The horizontal line is the axle center line.

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                          Last edited by commuter ebikes; 23 minutes ago.

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                            #15
                            Regarding the chain stay drawing above, the chain stay is not shown because you take a proposed chain stay and lay it over the top of the drawing. This is one advantage of a 1:1 scale drawing.

                            After the dimpling process, laying the dimpled chain stays on the drawing above barely cleared the circle (which is the cross section of a 5.05" wide tire--note the knobby drawn on). Like I said, I had to be mentally prepared to run a more narrow tire if the 5.05" wide tire did not fit after the frame was finished.
                            Last edited by commuter ebikes; 22 minutes ago.

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