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Final thoughts before ordering Bbshd x2

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    Final thoughts before ordering Bbshd x2

    I want to start this out by saying I have zero experience about building bikes in general and all the little knowledge I have pieced together in last two weeks. :)

    So I'm building a bike for me and my gf. Surly moonlander and Surly wednesday. I'm ordering the parts from Em3ev. I might how ever order the batteries from a local shop which uses 21700 cells instead of the 18650. This is because they give 2 year warranty and em3ev jumbo shark is prolly not gonna fit to s-size wednesday and their next biggest battery is only 11ah and i would like to get bit more than this. Thoughts?

    Moonlander build:

    The chainstay on The drive side takes a very steep turn from the bb and I will need the 120mm version of Bbshd. Im worried that the chainline will be off. Is there something I could put behind the rear cassette so there would be a small gap between the spokes and the cassette? Also, I think I'm gonna order the dnp 8-speed cassette from the same place. Could someone maybe suggest a shifter and derailleur for it?

    Wednesday build:

    This one seems easier looking at the experiences someone had building this. But someone says it needs a 120mm motor and someone says 100m is enough.

    This one has a shimano 9speed cassette which I'm gonna use as long at it lasts.

    Also what accessories do you guys think are good to have. I was initially thinking I would not order the lekkie crank arms, but reading that they really help with the q-factor I'm leaning towards buying those.

    If someone read the whole thing, thank you. And if you have some answers to my questions, that would be awesome. :)

    #2
    Local is good for the batteries. Faster cheaper shipping and should be no extra taxes or handling fees which often occur when shipping 'hazardous' materials. Even better if the local shop has more or custom fit options and a better warranty.

    I think we just recently had a moonlander build, I will have to go back and read about it. I don't think I would downgrade to an 8 speed stick with what you have at least to start with. What is it now a 9 or 10? If you can't get to some gears what people have done is re arranged the stack by sticking some middle gears inside as spacers so they still get the wide range on the ones they can access.

    Unless you are having to pay extra import fees and its much less expensive to order everything at one time I would just start off with what comes in the standard kits and upgrade things like crank arms later if you think you need to.

    I will go look for the moonlander and wedensday builds now and refresh my memory on their details. I have a Pugsley so same family but very different people.

    Comment


      #3
      Ok on the moonlander he used the 120mm. I would guess you could use the 100 but if you are worried about the q factor the 120 will likely get you closer to keeping things centered.

      He used the Lekkie 40t which is expensive because it includes a replacement gear cover for increased clearance. Looking at his photos any other size bigger or smaller would make the chain line worse. Smaller than 40t has 9mm less offset so you could loose 2-3 more gears. Bigger looks like you would have to space the ring or whole works out more which may not be 9mm worth but every 3 or so is another gear lost. As far as I know the Lekkie is the only option for a offset 40t so don't be fooled by other combinations that cost less.

      The BBS drives like to spin on the high end of what most people could pedal or even faster so top speed isn't usually a big problem. When I had the 3 speed setup on my Pug in my high gear I would spin out at about 18 mph but could throttle up to about 25 mph which is 40kmph. I don't know about you but to me that feels pretty fast on a fat bike. The 11t small cog on the cassette should get you above 30 mph pretty easily with the 40t up front.

      With the fat bikes usually the issue is getting the gearing low enough to be able to do serious climbs or plow through loose material like snow, mud, or sand. I have a 11-42 cassette and a 42 ring and with my 250 lbs on the bike its just barely low enough gears to go through snow or sand and get me up the climbs on the easy trails. Streets no problem but the offroad trails its just barely low enough.

      Comment


        #4
        On the Wednesday I'm thinking the same thing, go with the 120 and 40t Lekkie. That last builder didn't come back with any details or close up photos but from looking at the chainring specs it seems very similar to the Moolnalder as far as how quickly the chainstay kicks out so you would have the same issues if you try to go smaller or bigger. If he was running a 30t and you did the 40t you may not have any issues with chain line because you should be able to gain the 9mm of offset he didn't have.

        Personally I would go with gear sensors on both bikes as well as the hydraulic brake sensors. Also get a spacer kit or two for both the chain ring and BB, looks like both bikes will need a couple.

        Comment


          #5
          Thank you 73Eldo for the detailed and long answer. Amazing to find people like you who are willing to sacrifice some time to help others.

          Moonlander:
          I had 12 speed cassette in it and sold it already so i have to buy a cassette, derailleur and and shifter too. Any suggestions?
          Also neither em3ev or luna has 40t lekkie in stock so i will have to go either 36t or 42t for both bikes. I didn't find it elsewhere either atleast for reasonable price. I think 36t would be the safest option seeing how close the 40t is from the chainstay at the moonlander build you mentioned?

          Wednesday
          It has sram gx 11 speed so i'm not sure how i will that to work. I could sell it and also change the cassette to this.
          Overall still seems a little easier build cause the chainstay doesn't kick in as harshly as the moonlander.


          The bikes are meant more as a commuter and some trips so climbing power is not necesserily needed.

          Comment


            #6
            Or do you think it would be wiser just to bite the bullet and order it from Lekkie and pay a little extra?

            Comment


              #7
              Based on the other write up on the Moonlander I think just spending the money for the Lekkie 40t would be the way to go. Its way more expensive than any other option because it includes a new gear cover that is required to get the extra clearance. Looking at the photos in the other build it looks like if you were to use the Lekkie 42 which has the same offset as the 40 you would have to space it out a bit because the larger diameter would hit the chain stay so you would loose more gears. Its more about the offset than the tooth count especially in your case where you are not planning any extreme riding.

              I'm no expert on cassettes but I was thinking that the 11's and 12's are all exclusive to their own brands and won't interchange with anything. 8,9, and 10 will all interchange on the hub at least. Again I'm no expert so do your own research. The lower end stuff seems to hold up better than the expensive stuff when used with mid drives. The weight saving spiders of the larger sprockets seems to be a weak point as is lighter materials for the sprockets themselves seems to make them not able to take the abuse you can give them from a mid drive. I also don't think 12 speed chains work with any of the BBSHD chain rings.


              On the other Wednesday build he was using a 30 or 36 and seemed to imply all the gears did work but it didn't look good. A 36 to Lekkie 42 is a 9mm difference in offset so even if you needed a couple spacers to clear the chain stay you should still be able to get a better chain like than that other build so the 40 may not really be needed. I believe Lekkie says their rings work with 11 speed chains.

              Comment


                #8
                8, 9, 10 speed all take up the same width. The difference is in spacing between each cog. So going from 9 or 10 speed to 8 speed will gain you nothing.

                Comment


                  #9
                  The other thing to consider is if your freehub is shimano compatible. NX uses a standard freehub bit I'm not sure on GX or Srams 12 speed stuff.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by 73Eldo View Post
                    ...I'm no expert on cassettes but I was thinking that the 11's and 12's are all exclusive to their own brands and won't interchange with anything. 8,9, and 10 will all interchange on the hub at least.
                    11sp are for the most part very cross compatible - 12sp not so much

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Funny, I was just trying to find some cassette, shifter and derailleur for the moonlander build. Actually just today ordered the motors.
                      is there any "go to" cassettes where ppl tend to go when they're building a new bike? My freehub should be shimano compatible.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Some of us run the Sunrace cheap 8/9 speed wide range casettes. My 11-40T 8 speed (street rider so son't copy me) cost $20 and I change it with every chain swap.
                        There are too many variables on shifter and derailer setups. SRAM is a good choice if you like Gripshifters. If you have a special need for a derailer then Shimano probably make something for you. Shimano and SRAM use a different cable pull on their shifter/derailers so some commitment is required at the start.
                        Last edited by Retrorockit; 4 weeks ago.

                        Comment


                        • AZguy
                          AZguy commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Agree - keep shifter and derailleur from the same manufacturer... chains and cassettes are definitely a different case though

                        #13
                        Sunrace has many cassettes with all steel cogs which are very suitable for mids - I'm running one of their 11-speed with a BBSHD... they also offer wider-ratios than shimano and sram tend to have... I also prefer the gear steps on the wide-ratio units better than shimano and sram... the all-steel cog ones from them are also very competitively priced

                        Comment


                          #14
                          I tend to use Sunrace cassettes and freewheels. The reason is as AZguy said above, they usually have better range than Shimano or Sram. And I don't see any quality difference between them. Many mid level mountain bikes come factory with Sunrace cassettes. And I see people using them on their factory emtb's in place of more expensive factory cassettes like XTR.



                          Comment


                            #15
                            So i finally got everything. I ordered the 40t lekkie chainring from fasterbikes and get this, i ordered the wrong one. I ordered the one for bbs01 instead bbshd.
                            So now i'm stuck with the orginal 46t chanring. So my question is, how close is too close of the chainstay? On the wednesday build with 100mm bbshd the chainring is literally 1mm from the chainstay. Is this acceptable?
                            I'm not even gonna try with the moonlander. :D

                            Comment


                            • Dshue
                              Dshue commented
                              Editing a comment
                              I would run it, or atleast flex the frame with everything installed and see if it touches. But I wouldn't expect much flex in the chainstay that close to the bb.
                              There are shims available to move the chainring away from the motor.
                              Last edited by Dshue; 2 weeks ago.
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