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    e-bike question cost vs gas powered bike thanks.

    Hello curious about an e-bike or if I should just buy a gas-powered kit for my bike since I'm in Florida really no laws on them I can buy a kit for like 100$/150$ 80cc 100cc would get roughly 80-100miles and the ease of just refueling,
    now my question is if I wanted to do the same with e-bike diy the kit could I build a battery that will go 100 miles for 100$? 150$? if so if I wanted to bring a 2nd battery in case I was doing a long long ride that day what would the weight of the battery thanks?

    #2
    If its all about cost vs range (at least on paper) I don't think you would get an e bike as cheap as one of those cheapo gas kits. I say on paper because I really have my doubts that those cheap motors will last 100's of miles, for that price the overall quality can't be there. I'm sure you could get really lucky and get the best built one that ever left the factory and take extra good care of it and it would last but I think that would be the exception with those not the average.

    You say Florida really no laws. I'm sure there are laws you would be breaking possibly either way but maybe you live and plan to operate in an area that has little to no enforcement? That is quite different from no laws. Reason I bring this up is those gas conversions are somewhere between pretty loud and stupid loud which unless you are literally in the middle of nowhere on private property you have permission to be on its likely to get someones attention and possibly not in a good way.

    Gas engines are getting to the point in the USA where they are considered a bad thing by the majority. I'm not saying those people that think they are bad don't still use them but they still think they are bad and those are ones that don't make a stupid amount of noise and visible smoke. What are they going to think of one that is loud and smoky? Once you piss someone off they will likely be able to find some law you are breaking related to you on that gas bike. Don't know what law that will be but I'm sure they will find something maybe not even to do with the gas engine.

    Now if you are on an electric bike things are quite different especially if you ride it like a regular bicycle when people are around. You really don't stand out at all. If someone notices its electric and you are not being stupid they won't likely give it or you a 2nd thought which is the way I like it. Might it still be illegal? Maybe, depends on the build and where you are riding it but your chances of being noticed are greatly reduced.

    You can likely put together a crappy E bike kit for $500 using new parts. For that money its not going to be much faster than a regular bike and 30 mile range would be on the high side of things. Safety concerns like the battery pack blowing up could be a factor too. If you want an E bike kit that would go 20+ mph without pedaling and 100 mile range I would be planning in the $1500-$2000 range especially if you want to go with decent quality / reputation stuff.

    So ya if all you care about is going 100 miles for cheap one of those gas kits its probably they way to go but I would do some research on those to try and find the least bad one and get an ideal what sort of lifespan you can reasonably expect from them. Maybe it could work for you even if you had to replace them from time to time. You could buy 3 of those for what a crappy E kit cost that would not get you anywhere near 100 mile range. If you are leaning the gas way also research your route. Does it get near any people at all? If so does anyone else operate noisy stuff past those people regularly? What time of day will you be passing them? Afternoon is quite different than late night.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by bikeriders93 View Post
      Hello curious about an e-bike or if I should just buy a gas-powered kit for my bike since I'm in Florida really no laws on them I can buy a kit for like 100$/150$ 80cc 100cc would get roughly 80-100miles and the ease of just refueling,
      now my question is if I wanted to do the same with e-bike diy the kit could I build a battery that will go 100 miles for 100$? 150$? if so if I wanted to bring a 2nd battery in case I was doing a long long ride that day what would the weight of the battery thanks?
      might want to double check the laws before you buy

      Comment


      • brothergc
        brothergc commented
        Editing a comment
        looks like on a gas powered your going to legally limited to a 50cc and have to register the bike.
        I've looked at some of those cheep gas motors on amazon. Made in china and the way You install them can be a challenge . You will be limited to a single gear sprocket vs a bafang mid drive that uses your derailleur for multi speed . And at some point carburetor issues

        Speed wise their about the same 25-30 mph . A gas powered will need to be stored in a garage or left outside . But My e-bike I can legally keep in my apartment . Personally I would not waste My money on some $150 ebike conversion . If Gas is what You want consider a Genuine scooter company rough house https://www.genuinescooters.com/prod...ouse-50-sport/
        When going e-bike or gas scooter You do get what you pay for
        On My ebike with a 20AH battery that battery gets Me around 65-80 miles on pedal assist only less on throttle battery around 20 lbs
        hope this helps

      #4
      I would think someone from the "sunshine state" would go electric, and use solar for charging!?
      I live in Vermont and have only charged my bike battery a handful of times from an outlet.
      Why do you need 80 to 100 miles range?

      Comment


        #5
        Originally posted by 73Eldo View Post
        If its all about cost vs range (at least on paper) I don't think you would get an e bike as cheap as one of those cheapo gas kits. I say on paper because I really have my doubts that those cheap motors will last 100's of miles, for that price the overall quality can't be there. I'm sure you could get really lucky and get the best built one that ever left the factory and take extra good care of it and it would last but I think that would be the exception with those not the average.

        You say Florida really no laws. I'm sure there are laws you would be breaking possibly either way but maybe you live and plan to operate in an area that has little to no enforcement? That is quite different from no laws. Reason I bring this up is those gas conversions are somewhere between pretty loud and stupid loud which unless you are literally in the middle of nowhere on private property you have permission to be on its likely to get someones attention and possibly not in a good way.

        Gas engines are getting to the point in the USA where they are considered a bad thing by the majority. I'm not saying those people that think they are bad don't still use them but they still think they are bad and those are ones that don't make a stupid amount of noise and visible smoke. What are they going to think of one that is loud and smoky? Once you piss someone off they will likely be able to find some law you are breaking related to you on that gas bike. Don't know what law that will be but I'm sure they will find something maybe not even to do with the gas engine.

        Now if you are on an electric bike things are quite different especially if you ride it like a regular bicycle when people are around. You really don't stand out at all. If someone notices its electric and you are not being stupid they won't likely give it or you a 2nd thought which is the way I like it. Might it still be illegal? Maybe, depends on the build and where you are riding it but your chances of being noticed are greatly reduced.

        You can likely put together a crappy E bike kit for $500 using new parts. For that money its not going to be much faster than a regular bike and 30 mile range would be on the high side of things. Safety concerns like the battery pack blowing up could be a factor too. If you want an E bike kit that would go 20+ mph without pedaling and 100 mile range I would be planning in the $1500-$2000 range especially if you want to go with decent quality / reputation stuff.

        So ya if all you care about is going 100 miles for cheap one of those gas kits its probably they way to go but I would do some research on those to try and find the least bad one and get an ideal what sort of lifespan you can reasonably expect from them. Maybe it could work for you even if you had to replace them from time to time. You could buy 3 of those for what a crappy E kit cost that would not get you anywhere near 100 mile range. If you are leaning the gas way also research your route. Does it get near any people at all? If so does anyone else operate noisy stuff past those people regularly? What time of day will you be passing them? Afternoon is quite different than late night.
        Gotcha was just looking over youtube videos in the past 3-6 months ago of people buying batterys building that for under 80-150$ "not sure if thats true" i'd rather lean towards eletric if that was the case, is there no way around the 1,000 ,1,500 if you buy the batteries your self? from china or am I risking safety?

        Comment


          #6
          Originally posted by Snowcrow19 View Post
          I would think someone from the "sunshine state" would go electric, and use solar for charging!?
          I live in Vermont and have only charged my bike battery a handful of times from an outlet.
          Why do you need 80 to 100 miles range?
          I live near beaches and fish quite frequently i like the versatility of biking in and out, so if i pedal assist / use my e bike going idk 15-20mph long as it can last 80-100 mile charge for safety cause i would plan to go 30-40 miles on it, so might need 2 in case it runs out on the way back i dont drive my car much

          Comment


          • Snowcrow19
            Snowcrow19 commented
            Editing a comment
            The range is subjective and depends on terrain, payload, riding style, etc. Florida is a flat urban environment with plenty of places to recharge! If it were me, I'd stuff the charger in a dry bag and use it when the opportunity presents itself. As for rather to buy a kit or a pre-made e-bike depends on your skill level, and what you are comparable with doing yourself.

          #7
          I am curious 40-50-60 mile range e-bike, kit or just buying an e-bike would this be around 400-600? if so how much would buying extra batteries be "usually" for a 40-50-60 mile range
          Last edited by bikeriders93; 07-03-2023, 08:43 PM. Reason: editing question

          Comment


            #8
            The problem with the range you want is that it will take a big expensive battery ($500+). The moped you can stop for gas as needed. So basically unlimited range there. In coastal areas of FL winds up to 20mph are not uncommon. This can reduce speed and range immensely. On a 1000W Ebike with a 24AH battery you can still come up short on range (I've done it). For an urban commuter where range is known, and charging can be done while at work the Ebike can make a lot of sense with a smaller battery. I would look at a Vespa type scooter with the wide floorboards in front. It rains here a lot. No fender stops the water form where the tire hits the road filling up your shoes. The quiet non polluting Ebikes can run on sidewalks and bikepaths without disturbing anyone of you don't ride like an ass. The license plated noisy smelly mopeds are unwelcome there. You'll pretty much be riding in the road. With your budget and range expectations the moped looks better. If cost is the biggest factor and the Vespa scooter is out of reach just do what you gotta do. If you power up a bike, a mid range (disc brake) MTB from the good old days (26") will come with good brakes,rims and suspension fork. You might read around in this forum to get some ideas for that. The power limit for mopeds is 2HP. The same as the BBSHD kits. So lots of good info here for your project.
            Last edited by Retrorockit; 07-04-2023, 04:20 AM.

            Comment


            • Retrorockit
              Retrorockit commented
              Editing a comment
              Learn how to spot bikes with Avid BB7 brakes. cable discs with red adjuster knobs inside and outside the calipers. Around 2005 they were high end. The rest of the bike should be good also.They can be upgraded as you go. metallic pads to start, and a bigger front rotor will get you in the game in flat Florida.
              BTW Mopeds are not supposed to have a transmission. IDK if that means between the engine and the wheels, or also between the pedals and the wheels?
              I have no experience with them myself.
              Last edited by Retrorockit; 07-04-2023, 04:11 AM.

            #9
            just to buy a E-Bike conversion Kit your looking at 700 -1000 dollars depending on options and that is with no battery . add another $450-600 for a battery
            Lowest price anywhere on the BBSHD. The new bafang 1000 BBHD will put out a maximum of 1600 watts and is the most powerful ebike kit ever and its a mid drive!


            As far as buying a new e-bike all ready built ? 600 would not even get you in the ball park try $1500 -$2000 for a decent one
            I built my own and I have at least 2 grand wrapped up in it and that includes the new Bike I bought to convert.
            Like I said , You get what You pay for , so be wary of those cheep 250w -500w e-bikes . Use google to start doing some research try searching - Best e-bikes 2023 . Then once You find something google that model , see what real people are saying .
            Me I prefer to build my own , that way i am not locked into some model that if it breaks down, I am not locked into parts that have to come from that manufacturer . That is the beauty of the Bafang BBHD system parts are easy to get , You get 1000w motor that will leave you with smiles and is easy to work on. and a proven system.​

            Comment


            • Retrorockit
              Retrorockit commented
              Editing a comment
              There's a lot to be said for saving up to get something better. But there is also a lot to be learned doing it the hard way when money is short. The only thing that costs more than doing it right the first time, is doing it right the 2nd time.if you can save costs without cutting corners you will come out ahead.

            • brothergc
              brothergc commented
              Editing a comment
              agreed Retrorockit: I have seen too many cheep bikes with under powered motors and equipped with batteries that are locked into that build. Good luck when the battery needs replaced or something else breaks

            #10
            A Sondors 350W Ebike at Costco is $1400. 750W =1HP.........

            Comment


              #11
              Not to mention that a 50cc motor will have likely >3-3.5hp (~2500W) vs. the typical 750-1500W

              If the noise, maintenance, mess and stink of a 2-stroke don't bother you it's hard to make a compelling case against gas powered but if I never have to deal with those issues on a bicycle I'll be a much happier person...

              Comment


              • Retrorockit
                Retrorockit commented
                Editing a comment
                But it's not likely to have the 95# of torque.

              #12
              From my experience with both an ebike and an 80cc 2 stroke bike. You will have less problems with even the crappiest ebike compared to any of the 2 stroke kits. My 80cc ran great for 3 weeks then it lost a strong spark, I've bought two different replacement coils and magnetos which fixed nothing. The kits don't come in good quality all the ones I've seen regardless of price all look cheap and junky even the so called high performance parts or kits are garbage. They just don't make durable ones made from quality materials or that are built to last.

              Comment


              • Retrorockit
                Retrorockit commented
                Editing a comment
                There was 4 stroke Honda trail 50. I never did anything with gas bikes. But I suspect it didn't have too many issues.

              • AZguy
                AZguy commented
                Editing a comment
                Haha - rode those

                Small four stroke like that is a lot more reliable and these days fairly powerful for the displacement but compared to 2-stroke they are a lot more heavy (too heavy for a bicycle application IMO) far more expensive and don't make as much power as similar displacement (but much lighter) 2-stroke... the 4-stroke also generally doesn't make as much noise, stink or mess (2-smoke oil from the exhaust often gets all over everything)... just think they are likely too heavy and expensive for bicycles...

              • Retrorockit
                Retrorockit commented
                Editing a comment
                I'm guessing 1/2 way between electric and 2 stroke in a lot of ways. They've been around forever so used should be an option.Does a 50cc 4 stroke w/o gearbox weigh more than a BBSHD, or big hubmotor?
                Then there is the Liquid Piston Engine ( Not liquid, and no pistons) An inverted rotary engine.......
                LiquidPiston – Introducing the X Mini Engineliquidpiston.com LiquidPiston is crowdfunding on StartEngine and you can become an investor. Invest in LiquidPiston. Learn more about LiquidPiston.

                Youtube-
                I Run The Liquid Piston Rotary Engine in Slow Motion with all the Inventors and Engineers at LiquidPiston (A Worlds First) to see what is happening inside th...

              #13
              How about a 10cc 4-stroke bicycle engine with a compressor - the Bugatti T72A:

              Click image for larger version  Name:	t72-7.jpg Views:	0 Size:	66.9 KB ID:	163172
              The bicycle frame's BB sits in the U-shaped saddle, and there's a down-tube clamp:

              Click image for larger version  Name:	t72a-3.jpg Views:	0 Size:	216.8 KB ID:	163173
              Click image for larger version  Name:	t72a-4.jpg Views:	0 Size:	269.1 KB ID:	163174
              Wide-Q spindle and crank arms too.

              Comment


              • AZguy
                AZguy commented
                Editing a comment
                10cc four stroke likely has less than 1hp and it looks as heavy or heavier than the BBSxx


                But it sure is cute ;-}

              • Retrorockit
                Retrorockit commented
                Editing a comment
                In France that would be a big block.
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