Ca Moped License Denied

[Knobby1]

"Moped" is another word for "Electric Bicycle"; lights, turn signals, and mirrors are not required for bicycles or electric bicycles.

This is not correct, as nitro hinted, at least here in Fl. The laws here regarding ebikes/scooters/etc. have been changing a lot over the last few years. Point being the definition of what something is is done at the state level and is likely in flux.

Fwiw, a surron that cant exceed 20mph is a “scooter” in Fl.

[AZguy]

Definitely *not* the same in all the US states regs I'm aware of - totally different class

In AZ we have class 1, 2 & 3 electric bikes - class 1 and 2 are treated the same as any other bicycle in AZ: "An operator of an electric bicycle or an electric standup scooter is granted all the rights and privileges and is subject to all of the duties of a person riding a bicycle", class 3 have limitations


Moped is an entirely different class defined as:

"Moped" means a bicycle, not including an electric bicycle, an electric miniature scooter or an electric standup scooter, that is equipped with a helper motor if the vehicle has a maximum piston displacement of fifty cubic centimeters or less, a brake horsepower of one and one-half or less and a maximum speed of twenty-five miles per hour or less on a flat surface with less than a one percent grade.

[JohnKol]

https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/vehicle...ect-24015.html
There is a lot of bad advice out there, so I found this, it may be relevant to the above statement about required equipment.

Reg 230 makes no mention of any such requirements, and there is no DMV inspection, so whatever federal requirements there may be, they are irrelevant for obtaining a license plate for the Sur Ron -- which is the subject of this thread.

[JohnKol]

This is not correct, as nitro hinted, at least here in Fl.

As the title suggests, this is a thread about licensing the Sur Ron in CA, and the information that has been provided is correct for California. Why you felt compelled to comment on whether the same standards apply in Florida is anyone's guess.

[AZguy]

As the title suggests, this is a thread about licensing the Sur Ron in CA, and the information that has been provided is correct for California. Why you felt compelled to comment on whether the same standards apply in Florida is anyone's guess.

They are not the same thing in California either


From California Vehicle code:

DIVISION 1. WORDS AND PHRASES DEFINED

312.5

(a) An “electric bicycle” is a bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts.

(1) A “class 1 electric bicycle,” or “low-speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.

(2) A “class 2 electric bicycle,” or “low-speed throttle-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle, and that is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.

(3) A “class 3 electric bicycle,” or “speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle,” is a bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling, and that ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 miles per hour, and equipped with a speedometer.

(b) A person riding an electric bicycle, as defined in this section, is subject to Article 4 (commencing with Section 21200) of Chapter 1 of Division 11.

(c) On and after January 1, 2017, manufacturers and distributors of electric bicycles shall apply a label that is permanently affixed, in a prominent location, to each electric bicycle. The label shall contain the classification number, top assisted speed, and motor wattage of the electric bicycle, and shall be printed in Arial font in at least 9-point type.

....

406

(a) A “motorized bicycle” or “moped” is a two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor that produces less than 4 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.

(b) Every manufacturer of a motorized bicycle or moped, as defined in this section, shall provide a disclosure to buyers that advises buyers that their existing insurance policies may not provide coverage for these bicycles and that they should contact their insurance company or insurance agent to determine if coverage is provided. The disclosure shall meet both of the following requirements:

(1) The disclosure shall be printed in not less than 14-point boldface type on a single sheet of paper that contains no information other than the disclosure.

(2) The disclosure shall include the following language in capital letters:


“YOUR INSURANCE POLICIES MAY NOT PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR ACCIDENTS INVOLVING THE USE OF THIS BICYCLE. TO DETERMINE IF COVERAGE IS PROVIDED YOU SHOULD CONTACT YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY OR AGENT.”

[X-Nitro]

As I stated before it is necessary for these ppl to lie to get plated.
The law does not provide or allow for low power settings at all PERIOD.
The LAW only cites MAXIMUM OUTPUT and SPEED both of which lightbee has too much for the cal moped registration PERIOD.
You cant just flip a switch on your Livewire an turn it into an ebike duh.
These guys even lie to themselves, they are convinced their registration is legit.

[JohnKol]

They are not the same thing in California either

What part do you think is not correct? Have you ever filed a REG 230 application and failed to receive a license from the DMV?

[AZguy]

What part do you think is not correct? Have you ever filed a REG 230 application and failed to receive a license from the DMV?

This part:

"Moped" is another word for "Electric Bicycle"; lights, turn signals, and mirrors are not required for bicycles or electric bicycles.

I get that it's _just_ semantics, but they are important when speaking legalese

[Knobby1]

I apologize for mentioning a state other than california. I also apologize for pointing out another poster’s helpfully intended info that appeared to be incorrect. Finally, I apologize for putting glue in Megan McAllister’s hair in 3d grade.

Can we get back to the subject please?

[AZguy]

Sur-ron should have working brake light/headlight and mirrors are plentiful - out here you don't need turn signals [on anything]

edit: Sounds like brake light isn't necessarily a thing on sur-ron - I'm seeing conflicting information

I can admit when I make a mistake and try to correct it ;-}

[X-Nitro]

Equipment? wouldn't call it legal but...
I got the old standard Malcolm Smith L hand mirror. Mounted front turns like this on flat aluminum brackets dropped from the headlight

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorcycle-Turn-Signals-LED-Light-Flowing-Water-Blinker-Indicator-Lamp-Bendable-/273948660474?_ul=IN

Switch with horn

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184754364012

In back I got a little light like this, removed the seat post mount it came with, and zip tied it to the tail-light bracket.

https://www.amazon.com/X5-Wireless-TailLight-Automatic-Rechargeable/dp/B075PYDN5V/ref=asc_df_B075PYDN5V/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312094794167&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11045444316837476978&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032972&hvtargid=pla-456290668959&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=63784736042&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=312094794167&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11045444316837476978&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032972&hvtargid=pla-456290668959

[AZguy]

Ah yes... horn =]

[X-Nitro]

Sur ron lights, switch, mirror.

[JohnKol]

This part:

"Moped" is another word for "Electric Bicycle";

I get that it's _just_ semantics, but they are important when speaking legalese

No it's not semantics; that statement is true in California:

• Also known as a motorized bicycle, a moped has 2-3 wheels and an electric motor with an automatic transmission that produces less than 4 gross brake horsepower.

[AZguy]

In Kali per vehicle code:

moped = "motorized bicycle" ( https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...&keyword=moped )

moped ≠ "electric bicycle" (it is *not* another word for electric bicycle: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...tric%20bicycle )

Suggesting otherwise is misinformation & misleading

[JohnKol]

The DMV is the final authority on how the law is interpreted; what I quoted above is a statement from the DMV, and it is their rules and regulations that determine whether a vehicle is eligible to receive a license plate. In the case of the Sur Ron, it falls under the "Moped" category as this is defined by the DMV, it meets all the standards the DMV has set forth for mopeds, and it therefore receives a legal license plate.

I believe you know all the above, but you are simply making a bad faith argument in order to muddy the water and confuse people who might come here to receive some useful advice. If you don't know the above, this shows you why someone from Arizona should not be offering advice to people in California about California regulations.

[JohnKol]

Can we get back to the subject please?

The subject is how to receive a moped license in California, so your comments about the situation in Florida is completely irrelevant and only bound to confuse people.

Once again, the only thing you need in California to receive a license plate is fill out the REG 230 form and send it to the DMV; there is no requirement for lights, or turn signals, or mirrors, or anything else for that matter since there is no vehicle inspection.

[X-Nitro]

Are we all clear on how to obtain a fraudulent moped plate in cali now?

[AZguy]

Are we all clear on how to obtain a fraudulent moped plate in cali now?

True that - it's more a "light electric motorcycle" (maybe even "ultralight electric motorcycle"?)

It definitely has more than 4hp and can go faster than 30mph so not a even a moped in CA [let alone electric bicycle - even with hokey pedals not even close to that]

OTOH "light electric motorcycle" isn't really a category in any state I'm aware of... it isn't a far cry from a moped and sounds like it may be more difficult in CA to get it registered as a motorcycle - it's much easier in AZ to just get these types of critters registered as a moto... and so it seems in CA you're left with limited options for road use... but if you get it moped registered in CA likely best to keep it close to the 30mph or I could see a potential for discussions with LEO's....

[JohnKol]

Are we all clear on how to obtain a fraudulent moped plate in cali now?

No, there is absolutely nothing fraudulent, all the statements made in the license application are true and accurate.

[AZguy]

From CA DMV REG 230



SECTION 2-ORIGINAL APPLICATION

An original application is one that is made if the vehicle has never been licensed in California (no California license plate or ID Card). Answer the following questions ''yes" or "no to determine if your vehicle is a motorized bicycle (MOPED):

1. Two-wheel or three-wheel device? D Yes D No
2. Fully operative pedals for human power or powered solely by electrical energy? D Yes D No
3. Automatic transmission and a motor with less than 4 gross brake horsepower? D Yes D No
4. Maximum speed of 30 miles per hour on level ground? D Yes D No

If you answered Yes" to all four questions, complete the application below, in the appropriate sections.
If you answered "No" to any of the questions, your vehicle is not a motorized bicycle as defined by the California Vehicle Code
§406. Complete Application for Registration (REG 343) to apply for appropriate registration.


I'm no lawyer but sure seems like answering "Yes" to questions 3 & 4 might be considered "fraud" (Any act of deception carried out for the purpose of unfair, undeserved and/or unlawful gain)