Ca Moped License Denied

[evermore]

Got my CA moped license plate yesterday, precisely one month after I mailed my application to the DMV Special Processing Unit.

The only things needed are REG 230, "Motorized Bicycle Application", and a check for $24; you do not need to send Statement of Facts, or any other documentation or photographs. As mentioned before, you need to get the metal placard from Sur Ron and copy that information to the relevant sections in the application.

For those of you that have received the license plate, how and where did you install it on the Sur Ron? The plate is wider than the rear of the bike so it will rip off at the first crash, and I can't find a good place to install it vertically.

Using the Reg 230 application and entering the frame and engine number, I just received my moped plate from the California DMV. Now, same issue as the previous commenter, I have to find a way to install it. Bummer that the rain starts tonight so no going to Metcalf tomorrow :(

[JohnKol]

You received it just a week after submitting your application?? Excellent!

[evermore]

I mailed in the application on the 27th so this was exactly 2 weeks. I just figured this was easier and more versatile than getting a green sticker alone :)

[JohnKol]

3. Automatic transmission and a motor with less than 4 gross brake horsepower? D Yes D No
4. Maximum speed of 30 miles per hour on level ground? D Yes D No

I'm no lawyer but sure seems like answering "Yes" to questions 3 & 4 might be considered "fraud" (Any act of deception carried out for the purpose of unfair, undeserved and/or unlawful gain)

Per documents from the manufacturer, the Sur Ron makes 168 W as delivered, so it satisfies both 3 and 4.

Again, I am sure you know all the above, so why do you keep posting misinformation? You can't get a license plate in AZ for your Sur Ron, so you are trying to prevent people from obtaining a license plate in any other state too?

[AZguy]

Unless someone is a complete moron they know the bike has more than 168W (and more than 3000W) so even if they are a complete moron, since ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, answering yes on that form for 3 and 4 would clearly be perjury on that form:

"I certify (or declare) under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the foregoing is true and correct."

I don't give a rat's behind if people break the law and register their sur-rons as mopeds, especially since the registration policies haven't caught up with these new categories of vehicles

And as I stated we can get a motorcycle license plate in AZ for sur-ron... it clearly wouldn't meet the legal requirements for moped here but why bother with that? Just get it moto registered if you want to ride it on the street. I have zero desire to ride sur-ron on the street although I'd still consider getting the plate since it will make it legal on the thousands of miles of dirt roads out here although even without a plate it's going to be legal on most of those anyway with just the OHV decal...

However...

Nothing I have posted regarding the moped or electric bike status of sur-ron has been misinformation

That it meets the legal moped requirements in CA is flat out misinformation - not to say you can't lie on the form and get it registered that way, but it isn't legal and that's the facts

Electric bike = moped is also misinformation, they are different classifications

[JohnKol]

As I said, per printed documentation from the manufacturer the Sur Ron is delivered making 168 W.

This is the exact same procedure for certifying dirt bikes as dual-sport: from the factory they have intake, exhaust, and ECU restrictions that make them street legal. If the owner removes these restrictions and the bike now makes double the horsepower, the bike is now technically illegal to ride; are you also going to motorcycle forums posting how all dirt bikes out there are illegally being ridden with plates on them?

[X-Nitro]

Per lawful regulation the document you cite is invalid garbage, ID plates MUST be mounted PERMANENTLY (weld or rivet) by the MANUFACTURE.
Sur ron as a manufacture has WORLDWIDE ADVERTISING that the lightbee has a 6000 watt maximum output.
All sur ron applicants using 230 application must lie to receive registration, period.

[JohnKol]

Per lawful regulation the document you cite is invalid garbage

This sentence makes no logical sense; you're probably foaming at the mouth by now spewing nonsense.

ID plates MUST be mounted PERMANENTLY (weld or rivet) by the MANUFACTURE

Clearly false since CA allows you to obtain a moped plate after you have purchased the moped.

The above also extends to motorcycles: you can obtain a license plate for a motorcycle that you purchased without a plate.

[X-Nitro]

The state issued you a plate because you committed fraud, those are the facts here.

[AZguy]

Ya know, it's good to [politely?] point out misinformation in order to prevent others from being mislead but when someone just plain insists the world is flat and the moon is made of cheese there's no real good reason to engage

Oh yeah - don't forget certain ethnic groups started the CA wildfires with blue lasers from outer space and Anderson Cooper eats babies - really, it's true! =]

[JohnKol]

The only problem with your assertions is that neither of you have been able to point out which statements are false.

[Niterunnr]

This sentence makes no logical sense; you're probably foaming at the mouth by now spewing nonsense.



Clearly false since CA allows you to obtain a moped plate after you have purchased the moped.

The above also extends to motorcycles: you can obtain a license plate for a motorcycle that you purchased without a plate.

I think you’re mixing up the ID plate, (installed by the manufacturer) and tag or license plate, issued by the governing authority, eg: California in this case.

[Niterunnr]

I appreciate all the comments to this thread as I’m considering a purchasing one of these bikes to ride in SoCal.
It seems there is confusion as each state handles this differently (as for many laws and regulations).
I’ve been reading the links provided and learned a few things,
In California;
405. A “motor-driven cycle” is any motorcycle with a motor that displaces less than 150 cubic centimeters.
406. (a) A “motorized bicycle” or “moped” is a two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor that produces less than 4 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.
312.5. (a) An “electric bicycle” is a bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts.
ARTICLE 1. Driving Offenses
23135. It is unlawful for any person to operate upon a highway any vehicle which was originally manufactured as a motorized bicycle, as defined in Section 406, and which has been modified in such a manner that it no longer conforms to the definition of a motorized bicycle.
27803. (a) A driver and any passenger shall wear a safety helmet meeting requirements established pursuant to Section 27802 when riding on a motorcycle, motor-driven cycle, or motorized bicycle.

So it seems that to avoid requiring safety equipment and a plate, you would want to be classified as an electric bicycle.
Something more powerful without pedals would be classified as a motorized bicycle and require said equipment.

So I think you could legally use the manufacturer statement to register the bike, but if you are caught operating the machine outside those perimeters, you are in violation of the law.
A DOT approved helmet is required
Motorcycle license required
Special insurance may also be required

[trailpoacher]

Y'all need to stop stressin' and go ride!
I've been zooting around town 24/7, as have thousands of other jokers all over the country. I have a plate but at this point, I don't even attach it anymore. Cops really don't care about Surrons, I think in order to get ticketed, you'd need to roll up to the police-officer's station with documentation proving that your bike is in violation of the law, walk in, sit down and ask them to ticket you. If you ever get stopped, a good ol' "It's electric, bro" is enough.

Edit: You may need registration to ride at Metcalf now.

[X-Nitro]

I'm glad to see where you stand, this is the result of your "i ride where i want" mentality and behavior, I think people care.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-rider-flees-scene-on-electric-motorcycle-after-allegedly-hitting-and-injuring-mountain-biker.html

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2021/12/07/hawaii-news/church-pastor-alex-michel-51-dies-after-being-struck-by-motorcycle/

Giant lawsuits should be able to settle this.

[Niterunnr]

I appreciate your attitude trailpoacher and love your location! I have multiple motorcycles and always ride safely and courteously. That said, the SurRon sure looks a lot more aggressive than other bicycles. Orange County is notoriously strict and I don’t want an expensive lesson. I think if it had pedals and looked less like a motorcycle. Maybe I’ll simply ask a local cop if they have problems.

[X-Nitro]

If they put true information on the form it is denied.

[paxtana]

Maybe.

On the other hand, it would not measure 6 hp in eco mode, and depending on the production run to reach that power level would also require you to physically modify the bike by cutting or joining the hotrod signal wire.

IIRC the rationale for it being something where you have to modify it with tools was supposed to be so it technically would be classed as a lower power level to regulators, similar to how most actual mopeds can do more than 50cc with simple modification but start out as 50cc so they can be licensed as a moped.

[AZguy]

There's also the 30mph max issue, but if a person doesn't ride it faster than that (or limits it in the controller) it doesn't really matter I suppose

[evermore]

Y'all need to stop stressin' and go ride!
I've been poaching trails and zooting around town 24/7, as have thousands of other jokers all over the country. I have a plate but at this point, I don't even attach it anymore. Cops really don't care about Surrons, I think in order to get ticketed, you'd need to roll up to the police-officer's station with documentation proving that your bike is in violation of the law, walk in, sit down and ask them to ticket you. If you ever get stopped, a good ol' "It's electric, bro" is enough.

Also evermore : You don't need registration to ride a sur ron at Metcalf last I checked. I've been to Metcalf and Hollister multiple times, they've never cared.

Well, I guess I missed out on a couple weekends of riding at Metcalf but I'll go tomorrow morning once it's no longer in the 30s ;)

[sc-surfer]

So is it true that Metcalf no longer requires a plate or green sticker? My brothers bike doesn't have either and he's been missing out on riding there with me.

[JohnKol]

I think you’re mixing up the ID plate, (installed by the manufacturer) and tag or license plate, issued by the governing authority, eg: California in this case.

No I'm not. The Sur Ron does not have an ID plate affixed like motorcycles have, you need to buy it as a separate item from Luna; with the information from the ID plate you can fill in REG 230, submit to the DMV, and obtain a moped license plate.

[sc-surfer]

^^^^ THAT. Get the ID plate. Use the info on it. Get your moped plate. Done.

[JohnKol]

So it seems that to avoid requiring safety equipment and a plate, you would want to be classified as an electric bicycle.

Yes, REG 230 is for electric bicycles ("moped" in DMV parlance), and the Sur Ron falls into this category.

So I think you could legally use the manufacturer statement to register the bike, but if you are caught operating the machine outside those perimeters, you are in violation of the law.

It is illegal in CA to modify emission control equipment in vehicles; this renders about 90% of motorcycles in CA illegal to operate on public roads because the owners have installed at least an aftermarket exhaust, not to mention ECUs, AIS, air boxes, etc. Have you ever seen LEOs arresting motorcyclists because they have aftermarket exhausts on their bikes? Neither have I. The concern that they might start arresting moped riders is beyond the wildest imagination.

A DOT approved helmet is required
Motorcycle license required
Special insurance may also be required

None of those things are required for mopeds. However, if you show up at an OHV park with your Sur Ron, it would be prudent to wear a helmet and have a motorcycle license, given that you would be riding the Sur Ron like a dirt bike.

[JohnKol]

So is it true that Metcalf no longer requires a plate or green sticker? My brothers bike doesn't have either and he's been missing out on riding there with me.

I have ridden Carnegie and Hollister, and you either need a plate or a sticker (this time of year it can be either Green or Red); I have not ridden Metcalf yet, but I expect the situation to be similar there.

This doesn't mean that a ranger comes and checks every vehicle every time someone enters OHV premises, but I wouldn't risk it.

[AZguy]

Yes, REG 230 is for electric bicycles ("moped" in DMV parlance).....

As has been pointed out several times - "electric bicycle" is not "moped" in DMV parlance - this is a fallacy!

From CA vehicle code:

312.5 (a) An “electric bicycle” is a bicycle equipped with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts.

....

406 (a) A “motorized bicycle” or “moped” is a two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a motor that produces less than 4 gross brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than 30 miles per hour on level ground.


Pretty clear, yes?

[evermore]

I have ridden Carnegie and Hollister, and you either need a plate or a sticker (this time of year it can be either Green or Red); I have not ridden Metcalf yet, but I expect the situation to be similar there.

This doesn't mean that a ranger comes and checks every vehicle every time someone enters OHV premises, but I wouldn't risk it.

(so I got the plate from Luna but after I had already submitted the Reg. 230 form using the frame and engine number plus just writing down the information from a jpeg of that little plaque from Luna).

In regards to riding at Metcalf, Hollister, Carnegie, my understanding is that if your vehicle is street legal, you are allowed to ride and dont need a separate green sticker. Basically, street legal effectively gives you a green sticker (since this is about emissions). So the whole point of getting the moped plate via the Reg. 230 route was to render the Sur Ron street legal and hence ridable at the parks. While they may not check, if they ever do, this makes it legal.