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Hi guys, Just made my purchase. Questions about the suspension.

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    Hi guys, Just made my purchase. Questions about the suspension.

    So is the suspension on this like a motorcycle or mountain bike? I have a KTM and a mountain bike with an Air shock. Seems like I have to check the mountain bike shocks often to make sure they are the correct pressure before a hard ride. Thanks for the tips. I'm kind of excited. I'm 50 years old and have been trying to get my son to ride for the longest time and he's never shown an interest but for some reason, he's hooked on the Sur Ronster youtube channel. I'm hoping that this not having gears or a clutch might make it easier for him and maybe we can finally go on rides together.

    #2
    I'd say it's more similar to a mountain bike's suspension, but I don't have a good off-road motorcycling background. Based on my knowledge of motorcycling I suspect the Sur-Ron suspension needs to be assessed more frequently, but I don't think "before every ride" is a necessity.

    I think you're right about your son being more willing go with you for rides because he doesn't have to contend with a clutch or gears, so long as you keep your speed in line with his. Top speed on the Sur-ron when fully charged is maybe 45 MPH. I've only tested on a partial charge & I was getting 45 MPH as indicated on the speedometer, but my phone GPS app said it was 43 MPH.

    The whole clutch/gear thing can be daunting for beginners. Other's opinions will vary here, but i suggest NOT using "street legal mode" and NOT using EP mode on the Sur-ron. I've found the throttle response to be smoother and more linear when all restrictions are taken off. I've heard others say EP mode is perfect for beginners, and it's okay if you're afraid your son is going to be going way too fast right out of the gate and have no self-control whatsoever, but for me the throttle jumpiness on those lower power modes, which is VERY un-motorcycle like, detracts from the experience.

    I've been teaching my daughter to drive a car, a gasoline engined one. She loves Teslas, and I've driven them, so I had to tell her how much easier EVs are to drive than ICE vehicles. IMO driving an EV compared to internal combustion is the same jump in simplicity as driving an automatic transmission car is from a manual one. Nobody even has manual xmissioin cars these days, so the explanation was completely lost on her, but perhaps that provides a level of difficulty comparison that is appropriate.

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      #3
      I'm a life long dirt motor guy and a long time mountain biker who has worked at both a motorcycle shop and currently a bicycle shop. The Sur-Ron is definitely designed as a mountain bike suspension platform...but...I have seen a couple of highly modified units with small motorcycle forks like the Honda CRF150R which is a small, higher tech dirt motor. The problem with trying to go with dirt motor suspension components in most cases will be length of the fork and the length of the shock. The Sur-Ron chassis is design more optimally to MTB suspension components. However, like that CRF150R fork and other highly fabbed efforts from skilled individuals, some more robust suspension is possible with enough time and money.

      That said, a lot of the MTB suspension components today are highly sophisticated and fit the Sur-Ron's size and design much better. A Fox 40 dual crown DH fork and a high tech, piggyback MTB rear shock are impressive. On your mention of air suspension, for some years now I've been running coil suspension front and back on my MTB...Fox 36 coil fork and a Rock Shox Vivid R2C coil rear shock. The small bump compliance is phenomenal, and the benefit of consistent suspension action between service intervals is a nice feature. That same bike, a Santa Cruz Nomad, now has a Bafang BBSHD mounted, and it has been great. With the power many of these mid-drive motors have, you don't have to be the weight weenie you used to be with pedal-only power.

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        #4
        Gotcha, does the stock front shock come with any oil in it? I heard it comes dry and works better with fork oil. Anyone do this? If so how much fork oil do you add? Thanks for the info.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Suade View Post
          Gotcha, does the stock front shock come with any oil in it? I heard it comes dry and works better with fork oil. Anyone do this? If so how much fork oil do you add? Thanks for the info.
          I may have missed it, but what fork is coming on your Sur-Ron? I've seen them delivered with the RST Killah dual crown, a DNM fork, and a Fast Ace...though they may not be doing Fast Ace anymore.

          Comment


            #6
            I believe it's coming with this. Front Suspension is a RST Killah with 8 inches of suspension.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Suade View Post
              I believe it's coming with this. Front Suspension is a RST Killah with 8 inches of suspension.
              I have that fork on a Bafand BBSHD equipped Santa Cruz Nomad. In fact it's a new takeoff from a Sur-Ron. RST isn't commonly considered a high end fork, but a good deal of that is due to the fact that they supply forks for a lot of entry level and mid-level bikes. The forks that have the OCR+ cartridge are much better performers. It's an actual cartridge that has external rebound and compression damping, and accessible shims in the cartridge for additional compression damping. I've had forks ranging from the old Marzocchi Monster T dual crown and many, many other top tier forks. Somewhat surprisingly the RST is performing quite well on my Nomad. The problem with lots of suspension components is that people don't know how to set them up. While no one is going to claim the Killah has Fox 40 performance, it is quite competent.

              There are quite a few sources and videos that show how to service and tweak the fork to suit the Sur-Ron, the rider, and conditions. Here's an example of it on my Nomad.
              Last edited by TNC; 06-15-2021, 09:19 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Suade View Post
                Gotcha, does the stock front shock come with any oil in it? I heard it comes dry and works better with fork oil. Anyone do this? If so how much fork oil do you add? Thanks for the info.
                I didn't read anywhere in the initial setup documentation that fork oil needs to be put in and I read every document including service & owners manual and followed all directions to the letter. I too have the RST Killah. The shock is fine, quality-wise. Maybe not Swiss-watch quality fine, but decent enough for what most are doing, & probably plenty for your kid. When I picked up my bike I proposed I tip the box over and take it home in the back of my SUV. Luna cautioned this was a BAD IDEA. I had assumed it was partially because of fluids (motorcycles & cars get cranky when their rubber side is up), but since then I've read it's actually a good thing to turn the shocks over once in a while to get that lube back up top. Dunno. Could just be an urban legend. Regardless, if the shock needs oil and the factory didn't put any inb I've been riding dry. Oops. If oil does need to be added it is my understanding it is minuscule. I'm no mechanic, though.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Father Brian View Post

                  I didn't read anywhere in the initial setup documentation that fork oil needs to be put in and I read every document including service & owners manual and followed all directions to the letter. I too have the RST Killah. The shock is fine, quality-wise. Maybe not Swiss-watch quality fine, but decent enough for what most are doing, & probably plenty for your kid. When I picked up my bike I proposed I tip the box over and take it home in the back of my SUV. Luna cautioned this was a BAD IDEA. I had assumed it was partially because of fluids (motorcycles & cars get cranky when their rubber side is up), but since then I've read it's actually a good thing to turn the shocks over once in a while to get that lube back up top. Dunno. Could just be an urban legend. Regardless, if the shock needs oil and the factory didn't put any inb I've been riding dry. Oops. If oil does need to be added it is my understanding it is minuscule. I'm no mechanic, though.
                  Here's the best video I've seen so far on servicing the Killah. Notice there is no verbal direction or explanation. You have to look closely to see that he uses 10wt fork oil for the cartridge...no amount or direction given...and 20wt for lower leg lubrication...again no amount or direction. From other sources it is clear you have to grease the fork seals with suspension grease. The 20wt oil the guy uses in the vid apparently is injected into the lower leg from the bottom...a small amount it appears. On turning the fork upside down at times, this is a recommended action on my Fox 36 coil fork, but it has felt sponges under each seal that retain the oil for longer.

                  Suspensão RST Killah OCR+ | Service - YouTube

                  Brian, do you have an actual service manual? I've never seen one online or anywhere.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks, that will probably come in handy in the future.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by TNC View Post

                      Here's the best video I've seen so far on servicing the Killah. Notice there is no verbal direction or explanation.

                      Suspensão RST Killah OCR+ | Service - YouTube
                      SRX-LB Suspension. That might of been the 2nd best video so far on the RST forks
                      At the end of the posted video there pops up numerous other videos with much more information.
                      here is another one.. https://youtu.be/HSz7-KqiTS8
                      Spring upgrade for the RST. https://youtu.be/RicDXmwCZ5cJust installed the RockShox Boxxer Stiffer Spring on my stock RST forks.
                      Super cheap upgrade to fix the crappy fork that comes stock on the Surron X. Only cost me 35$.

                      Yesterday as I first watched TNC posted video (Gut line Downhill shop).
                      Today as i watched it again from this forum. The pop-ups where much different at the end.



                      Last edited by dirtman; 06-17-2021, 12:31 PM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Suade View Post
                        does the stock front shock come with any oil in it? Thanks for the info.
                        After watching all the SRX-LB videos in the past 2 years and 2 0r 3 hours on this topic,
                        No one yet has complained or mentioned about no oil in the forks.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by dirtman View Post

                          After watching all the SRX-LB videos in the past 2 years and 2 0r 3 hours on this topic,
                          No one yet has complained or mentioned about no oil in the forks.
                          Just today I totally disassembled my fairly new Killah for my Bafang powered MTB pictured above. It did not "need" service, but I've been in touch with RST Global and Risse Racing. Risse is the North American distributor for RST. From the shop I work at, I've had some good conversations with one of their techs who actually uses a Killah fork on his big hit, park bike. He was a wealth of information. I'm fairly well versed in working on MTB and motorcycle suspension all the way down to tweaking shim stacks. I also finally received a response from RST Global about some tech questions, and they were in line with what the Risse tech advised me.

                          dirtman, on the lack of oil in the legs of the forks, the actual design is to use grease on the bushings...like Buzzy's Slick Honey or such...not just common wheel bearing grease. Wheel bearing grease can work for greasing up the spring, but an actual suspension grease is much better for the stanchions and lowers. That said, this fork actually has some options. It has conventional dust wipers and seals, but it also has some circular foam sponges under the seals like my Fox 36 Vanilla coil fork. In the Outline Downhill Shop video, you can see the circular sponges laid out on the table. You'll also see the guy inject a few cc's of oil into the lower leg of the coil spring side through the open footnut hole. I don't know if he did that in the damper side too. In the Fox 36 I have, you put a few cc's of suspension oil in each leg...not damper...and it's usually a heavier oil. The guy in the video is using 20wt. They suggest you occasionally turn the bike upside down so that this oil seeps into the bushings and the foam sponges to aid in lubrication. Marzocchi was one of the few companies that had full oil bath forks for MTB's like dirt motor forks. Most use a system of minimal oil and/or suspension grease in sparing amounts in critical areas. A lot of Manitou's even used grease injection ports for injecting their suspension grease with a little pump gun they supplied.

                          Here's another thought. This fork has what RST calls "Speed Vents" on the upper back of each lower leg near the arch that are stated to allow an air bleed for built up pressure. They are just two small screws that you open up to that area where the seals and foam rings sit. I actually suspect these may have been put there as some form of access for grease or oil injection in the original design. Whether that's the case or not, I'm going to use those ports for a very sparing, periodic application of oil. I'll use one of my suspension syringes to push the oil into that cavity. In this case I won't put any oil into the bottom of the leg at assembly. Oil will be sparingly applied through these vents over time. You reinstall the screw and ride.

                          On the damper cartridge...it takes 75cc of 5wt suspension oil according to Risse and RST, even though the video showed the guy with 10wt. I used Maxima Plush 5wt fork oil. It is closed, and the oil stays in the cartridge. I got to ride my bike on my property today to give a little test, but there aren't any real trail challenges to see how it will really perform. No doubt the compression and the rebound are fully functioning by testing fully open and fully closed. It is easy for one to experiment with different fork oil weights because you can remove the cartridge without removing the fork...a nice feature.

                          On the spring, I think you Sur-Ron folks will likely need a stiffer spring for that application of weight. The Rock Shox Boxxer springs from 2010-2018 will work if you can find them. Also, Risse now offers a firm spring which was not available before. Risse is starting to offer more and more stuff for the Killah/Sur-Ron application. Also something not normally mentioned is the air access valve in the top of the damper leg under the compression adjuster knob. This takes a Rock Shox air valve adapter for a normal shock pump that is recommended at 10-20 psi. This allows some fine tuning. It makes a pretty big difference in how the compression leg works...more air, more bottomout resistance. I actually zeroed mine at full extension and will see how it goes if I need to work up. You Sur-Ron folks will probably need this feature.

                          Sorry for the long winded report on this fork, but there's just not a lot of detail for service and options out there. The fork is actually well designed and highly serviceable. Being a fairly serious MTB guy who's owned a lot of high end forks and working at a shop, I never would have thought about using an RST fork. This fork is not their entry level stuff that they are more known for. I think anything with the OCR+ cartridge in their lineup is pretty darned decent.
                          Last edited by TNC; 06-17-2021, 07:06 PM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by TNC View Post

                            I'm fairly well versed in working on MTB and motorcycle suspension all the way down to tweaking shim stacks.
                            I also finally received a response from RST Global about some tech questions, and they were in line with what the Risse tech advised me

                            I'm a life long dirt motor guy and a long time mountain biker who has worked at both a motorcycle shop and currently a bicycle shop.
                            The Sur-Ron is definitely designed as a mountain bike suspension platform...but....
                            The Sur-Ron chassis is design more optimally to MTB suspension components.

                            That said, a lot of the MTB suspension components today are highly sophisticated and fit the Sur-Ron's size and design much better.
                            A Fox 40 dual crown DH fork and a high tech, piggyback MTB rear shock are impressive.

                            The Killah/Sur-Ron application. You Sur-Ron folks will probably need this feature.
                            The fork is actually well designed and highly serviceable. Being a fairly serious MTB guy who's owned a lot of high end forks and working at a shop,
                            I never would have thought about using an RST fork. This fork is not their entry level stuff that they are more known for.
                            I think anything with the OCR+ cartridge in their lineup is pretty darned decent.

                            Dear TNC:n Thank you for all the information and tips on the SRX-LB suspension.
                            So you worked both in a Motor Cycle shop and a Bicycle shop. Have you ever rode on a SRX-LB??

                            What do you make of The following quote from Tucker on dirtlabs improving the SRX-LB suspension?
                            Does your Bicycle shop offer the same services.?

                            Quote Tucker Neilson of Electric Cycle Rider. (C&P exact words)
                            ""If you're wanting to improve the off-road handling of your Sur-Ron or Segway without spending thousands of dollars,
                            Dirtlabs Suspension can re-valve and overhaul your front fork and/or rear shock to improve it's off-road capabilities.
                            They re-valve the fork, make the damper progressively stiffer and
                            replace with high quality oil and seals. Learn more by contacting Dirtlabs

                            Fork service is $150,00 and rear shock service is $150.00 plus shipping. New oil and better seals.



                            Comment


                              #15
                              I have seen and sat on a Sur-Ron, and they are impressive. I've not actually ridden one. It's something I might consider at some point, but I'm still doing the dirt motorcycle deal for hardcore off road and my Bafang'd Nomad mountain bike for the pedal stuff.

                              On the fork and shock mods, I'm only familiar with the RST Killah fork. I've seen DNM rear shocks and forks on some of these, and I'm not that impressed with either, but maybe this Neilson fellow can bring those to life to suit the Sur-Ron. I'm not poo-pooing this suspension's shop claims. They may be able to work wonders on the whole package. On the RST fork, I'm highly impressed and frankly surprised after years of all kinds of high tech suspension on my MTB's and motorcycles. The Killah fork doesn't need a lot. For you SR guys, it apparently is too softly sprung and needs the firm spring from RST or one of the 2010-2018 Rock Shox Boxxer springs. I wonder if the damping actually needs tweaking in the shim pack or not. I'd do a 7wt or 10wt quality fork oil in the cartridge before that, as it is extremely easy to change just the fork oil...not the complication of the YT video that involves disassembly of every nut, bolt, shim, and part of the fork. This is an extremely tunable fork, and a lot of people don't even know about the air valve in the cartridge top that goes a long way in easing bottomout. I'd try a heavier spring, one of the heavier fork oils, and some air in the cartridge chamber before trying to revalve. The spring is probably needed whether this company does the revalving or not, and the other tweaks I mention cost nothing...except some fork oil and maybe an adapter for your shock pump.

                              On the rear shock, what brand are they using routinely?--TNC

                              Comment


                              • SurPaully
                                SurPaully commented
                                Editing a comment
                                My 2021 came with the FastAce shock in rear, RST Killah on front.
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