About my one year experience with the Sur Ron Light Bee

[Markk]

I have developed a website about my own experience with the Sur Ron Light Bee. I've owned mine for a little over a year.

https://sur-ron.markkitaoka.com/

[paxtana]

Very nice page.. Thanks for the shoutout to that video I made on the pedal kit, that was a very spur of the moment thing I made grabbing my phone while helping my bro work on his own Surron. Your page on pedal kit maintenance looks a whole lot nicer!

[Markk]

LOL thanks. Your video helps loads of folks. The 'dreaded pedal kit' is misunderstood so I thought I too would explain how I work on mine.

[Bearbait in NM]

Mark,

Thank you for the page and all of the detail. New owner and user here, having received my bike just yesterday. Bit of motorcyle histroy here, but no MTB experience, but this bike is stunningly awsome. I too am a mechanical/electrical hacker, and like yourself I try and do thing things "right". I appreciate your page for that. I have a big back country trip planned for next week, and I am finishing the build of a proper solar charge system for my new buddy.

Back to your page, the other benefit for folks like me who perhaps do not trust social media is having a quality resource away from the what I think is probably the main Sur-Ron group/info which I think is facebook.

Thanks,

Craig

[Bearbait in NM]

Mark,

Thanks for clarifying that there is a facebook forum/group. As far as I am concerned FB can go to heck, and I am not even willing to fake an account to accommodate that company. I spend time on very few forums myself, as I tend to prefer groups who are about community and help, not stroking particular ego's. Doesn't take long to sort that out about a place.

I spent quite a few weeks edumacating myself on e-bikes, and did not see much in the way of bad or negative opinion/info on the Sur-Ron. I initially discarded the Sur-Ron early on, as I do like to support American products. But being self-employed myself, I also place a high premium on quality. Luna's tear-down video was quite an eye-opener for me. The gang at Luna appeared to me to be the correct combination of proper American Pig capitalists, and cutting edge mad e-bike pioneers. I can get behind that.

Having watched the Sur-Ron VLOG with your appearance, I can say that we are of similar vintage. Embracing technology sure can be beneficial to keeping the old noodle cob-web free.

Craig

[Markk]

Just today Craig I was made aware of a 'thing' on FB which ages photos of people to see what they look like at an older age. (of course no women apparently posted their photos) Just another reminder to me of why I don't trust social media. Using MY information to make money. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/faceapp...opment-russia/

[Bearbait in NM]

Mark, I followed your link. Wow, some scary stuff. What bothers me the most is kids or young adults wrecking their future with this lack of personal security. A run for office, a job that requires security clearance, educational system with kids, the list is long. All your personal "stuff" in the hands of others. Crazy

[Markk]

I'm really honored to have been hired to write a long term use article for WebBikeWorld about my experience with the Sur Ron.

https://www.webbikeworld.com/sur-ron-light-bee-review/

[Bearbait in NM]

A nice read. A lot of the same ground as your webpage, but nice to see something other than youtube on the Sur-Ron. Looks like you hired a sharp tack for your bike photography;^)

I like the analogy of the Ipad. I have a ride coming up this weekend with my local Search and Rescue (SAR) group, and I may use that as a description. Were trying to get our OHV Unit back up, and I'll be riding with ICE Moto's, and ATV's. My MX passed my ranch torture test this past weekend, and a couple of guys up there who are hardcore 450 riders, well, I could not keep them off my bike. My SAR group is a bit prone to gear snobbery, so I might have a little "proving" to do.

A question if I may. I see you have upgraded your headlight. Can you confirm the output wires from the controller are 12 volt for lighting? I would think that the USB plug is also 12v, using the plug body to drop the voltage to the lower USB voltage. I intend to test the factory electrical lighting system, to see whether I would benefit much by installing an on/off switch, or maybe Rigid brand lights. Rigid's throw a ton of light, have a wide selection of beam patterns, and really sip juice.

Craig

[Markk]

Hey Craig, Yes the FisherFabHouse light I replaced my OEM headlight with is great. I'm a real bitch about two things, light and donuts! Light because my day job is as a professional commercial photographer, so light is important to me. Donuts, well....because they are donuts. BTW my adult daughter tells me I photograph my bike like I photograph nude women...she does have a point.

Anyway it's a 12v unit. Five modes; 1. 80 lumen 2. 750 lumen 3. 2900 lumen 4. 3200 lumen and 5. 750 lumen flashing. I tend to use 3200 for pitch black trail riding because the depth of the light AND THE WIDTH of the light is what I want. I have never encountered it sucking so much juice that it prevents me from riding until I'm tired at night. The fact that they used a Fresnel lens on one side and a regular lens on the other impressed the $hit out of me. Plus he balanced to color temp so that it really brings out the texture of the terrain. I won't go into all of the tech BS about that, but trust me, as a real bitch I love the light.

[Bearbait in NM]

Mark,

Thanks for the confirmation on 12v. This will make my life so much easier. Yes, that light at 80 lumens and even 750 should not pull many amps. If I do end up pressing my bike into SAR work, the range on the battery is going to be my biggest hurdle. I will really need to be able to manage and optimize every single AH in the battery. I tend to be on the bitch end of the light quality spectrum, as well.

As an electrical aside, I have my solar charging in the back country working well. Charging a 60v 32ah battery was not in my plans when I designed my Van system, so I am a little light on the house battery side, but I can make do for now. The bike and my charging passed it's first shakedown run this last week, up at the ranch.

Craig

[Markk]

Cool once you get to where you want to be with solar would you mind letting me know how you did it? Thank you.

[Bearbait in NM]

Mark, I have been mulling the thought of doing just a general post here on the solar side of things. When I get some time, I will do so. The OHV unit of my SAR group was very happy with my performance on yesterdays test ride with the team. We have a big Mountain Bike Race here this Saturday, for which we will be providing support. I will be positioned in such a way that I could hop on the bike trail (very limited road access to trail) to help someone. I will not have time to install my pedal kit for this event, but it is looking like adding pedals might be a good idea for the long term. Much like what you and others have posted about the headset bearings being poor from the factory, it sure seems to me that the bearing situation in the pedal kit may not be much better. Craig

[Markk]

OK great looking forward to that when you get the time to write it. The headset bearings are the same configuration as the pedal kit, thrust ball bearing cages. The difference though is the headset is prone to much higher stress than the pedal it. The pedal kit stresses the bearings once you stand up and put your full weight on the pedals and cranks. In those situations you are not likely to be pedaling and as long as the bearing races are tight and adjusted properly they won't fail. I've written a pretty extensive post about the pedal kit and my own experience with them. https://sur-ron.markkitaoka.com/pedal-kit-adjustment/

[Bearbait in NM]

Mark,

Yes, your pedal kit article is outstanding, and I had read that. I had never heard nor grasped the concept of unsprung weight, so it took me a bit to ponder and understand.

I am clear that the pedal bearings and races should not see a lot of abusive use, and having played with cranks in my younger misspent youth, those do not worry me. And the neck/headset bearings do not get abused by turning, just by the suspension and how one rides ( or jumps).

I have not yet really looked carefully at my pedal kit, but I think there is a second set of bearings in there, possibly inside the sprocket? If the pedals are not being used, the sprocket will still be turning all the time. I am assuming there are bearings. Again, not a lot of force on them unless pedaling, but methinks those bearing would need to be maintained/serviced? Not a lot of force on them, but a lot of RPMs. I think. My universal torque setting is 1/4 of a turn before stripping. I guess the universal bearing torque is 1/4 turn before they seize ;^) Craig

[Markk]

Craig,
Thanks since there is not a ton of information about the pedal kit I wanted to share as much as I've experienced. Yes the sprocket on the pedal kit does have bearings and although I have not disassembled that unit I feel they are of a more sophisticated design then the spindle bearings. In truth I cannot figure out how to disassemble the sprocket so I just clean it by soaking it in kerosene and then lubing it with P10 oil. The pedal kit is the bastard child of the Sur Ron mechanics. So many people poopoo its need, but for me it allows me to go to/on many places that would be frowned upon without pedals.

I learned first hand about unsprung weight in my racing days. Changing over to carbon fiber wheels from normal forged aluminum ones made my 1000 liter vtwin made my bike turn like a 125cc two stroker! Anyway here is a good article that explains how unsprung weight affects handling, acceleration and braking:

https://www.cycleworld.com/fundamentals-unsprung-weight/

[Bearbait in NM]

Mark,

Thanks for the link. Nice companion to your article on the pedal kit. I had my pedal kit out last evening, robbing the master link from the pedal kit chain for my riding kit. I took a bit of a look at the sprocket and its bearings. On mine, I can actually see the bearings though the gap in the housing/race of the sprocket. That is not inspiring. I too did not see an obvious way to diassemble the sprocket assembly.

Given that 95% of my riding will be offroad, and that right now I do not have a need to "fool" anyone that this is really a mountain bike, I am leaning towards not installing it. I also noticed that just turning things by hand was pretty noisy. I would say for anyone planning on doing a lot of mountain bike terrain (water and mud) with the pedal kit, that they would want to really study your article, pay very close attention to what you did for changes, purchase a spare, and really pay attention to horizontal and radial alignment of the sprocket to the drivetrain and pedal shaft. Very regular maintenance and cleaning looks to be in order.

Switching gears (EP Mode), I had two unknowns when I purchased my bike. Pedal kit or not, and whether to upsize my rear sprocket. I'll be on about the worst trail I will likely see tomorrow, in support of a big off road MTB ride. If my E-Thingy will pull me and my 40 lb pack around, I will have my second question answered.

Craig

[Markk]

A guy I know is a retailer in the UK for the bikes. He told me I am THE ONLY ONE HE KNOWS who has kept the pedal kit on his bike! LOL I'm an oddball, always have been. If you have the X controller you 'may' not need a larger sprocket. Or you may, up to your own tastes and riding environment. Oh man a 40 pound pack? Didn't you get enough of that in the service?! LOL

[Bearbait in NM]

Mark,

My MX passed a very extreme test today on the MTB ride where we were SAR support. 5.5 miles in, about 1700' elevation over the rockiest pig of a trail I have ever been motorized on. And I have been offroading in the Rockies for over 30 years. Here's the killer, I used 40 % of the battery getting to the pass, and only 4% on the reverse ride down. In high power all the way up, mix of high and low on the ride back out. This information is critical to me as a data point moving forward, as I need to understand my range in terrain.

Yes, I overloaded my pack with water for riders, which was not needed. My bike tool kit was also a little heavy, as I erred on the side of my little E-Thingy maybe pitching a fit, or a tire or me. I never served, as my dad was 20 year Army, and I had direct orders....College. But my knees show signs of my propensity in my back packing years to be a little over prepared. All 240 pounds of me and gear never was at a loss for power, ever. Gonna roll with the 48 tooth rear. But, being new to this E-game and torque and power, I do have to wonder whether a slightly larger rear might consume less overall power from the motor. Something like taller gears in the ICE world allowing for a better power band, if that makes sense? I do not need top speed, I need range. Trail range....

Back to the pedals. If I had the kit on today, I would probably still be in a pile up there somewhere on the side of the mountain. The rocks, stumps, cut logs and various and assorted other leg breakers were coming too fast for me to do the left up, right up, no, other way....On a pedal only MTB, you are going slow enough that these things are not near as dangerous. I concur, "taste and environment", for sure.

from reading and studying on these bikes before purchase, I had read folks like to stop you and inquire. man, big time today, and this was over 150 riders on MTB's, on a very extreme and technical MTB ride.. Today, one guy stuck his front tire in a hole, and almost did a headstand. he said "sorry, I was just checking out your cool e-bike". I was pleasantly surprised at the response from these folks, many who were riding some very serious MTB hardware.

All in all, it was a great day for the Sur-Ron, as I added a lot to my knowledge data base. No one was hurt on the trail, and the only "glitch" was working with the last rider EMT trail sweeper to assist one rider to the pass. Tomorrow is once over on the bike, to see what got lose....

Craig

[paxtana]

You will definitely see better torque and efficiency with a bigger rear sprocket. If all you are doing is climbing big mountains with no need for speed then the bigger the better. You can probably double the range.

[Bearbait in NM]

Thank you, sir. After sleeping on things last night, the little lightbulb went off in my head, thinking that the more I can do in LP mode, probably the better the range. That would mean bigger rear. I was going to call you guys tomorrow to see what your thoughts were on this. Thanks for reading my mind.

Craig

[Markk]

Sounds like a great time and yes you may want to go with a larger rear sprocket for what/where and how you ride. The right tool for the right job has always been my personal motto. I find that riding in EP mode when Sport is not really needed extends my range quite a bit. And the regen of the X controller really helps me for long downhill sections which you found yourself. I love my bike, it's so much fun.

[Bearbait in NM]

Yes, the 60 tooth is enroute, as I type. Ordered from Luna last evening. I have a 114 link 420 o-ring chain I ordered a few weeks ago. It should work. I bought the 420-114 knowing it would be long enough for the pedal kit with my stock 48 tooth, or as an option in the event I decided to go bigger rear and no pedal kit installation.

I have been trying to be anal about "shifting" to LP when riding, but the trail on Saturday took all of my concentration just to avoid rocks and deal with mega-steep little sections. But I really could have benefitted from the "X", even just to save my brake pads. It's on my list of upgrades, pretty much at the top now.

Craig