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Will this hub motor for in my rear bike?????

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    Will this hub motor for in my rear bike?????

    Will this rear hub motor fit my bike? My dropout width is about 5 inches I posted pics of my bike
    Hard to see but just short of 5 inches



    Link to the 6000 watt while kit

    It says the hub not motor width is 5 1/2 inches. I'm not sure if this includes the cassette width. If not turbo guess it won't fit. That would be terrible

    I really wanted to use this motor on my bike

    I dont want to have to buy a totally different bike with a larger dropout width just to fit a motor 6000 watts
    I hope it fits somebody please answer my Question
    (True Sine Wave Internal Controller = Whisper Quiet. 6), 1 x sine wave controller( built in the motor). 72V6000W electric bicycle motor Panasonic with controller built-in motor, bluetooth. Kit available laced to 20"-28" Bicycle Rims. | eBay!
    Last edited by ronbrown629; 11-16-2016, 07:21 PM.

    #2
    Hmmm. They did not state the width of the stator magnet, but to look at it I would guess that the stator is 40mm wide. I have run 40mm stator magnets up to 6390W, but the motor heated up very quickly. Even at a continuous 2600W, my 40mm stator heated up to at least 100 degrees Celsius after only 5 miles.

    I do have some arguments against this motor:
    (1) If the controller is built in to the motor, this creates a situation where two components that get hot are adjacent to one another. The usual setup for hub motors is to have your controller and motor a few feet from one another which is a better environment for heat dissipation,
    (2) Having the controller built into the motor means that if either one fails, you have to repair or replace your unit. It would be too bad if you had to replace the unit if it were only the controller that was the problem. Repairing this unit involves opening it up, which isn't the end of the world but if your motor and controller are separate, then you can just replace the component that is faulty. The usual setup with an external controller allows the user to do a simple "remove and replace" repair.
    (3) I have been reading about ebikes for three years, and I have never seen this motor. This is not necessarily a bad thing as it could be an emerging success, but there is something to be said for using common (and thus widely available) parts. I always try to use very common components so that replacement parts are readily available.
    (4) If you were to run a setup with a separate motor and controller, you could replace one of the components if you don't like it. I used to use 40mm stator motors, but they heated up too much so I changed to 50mm stator motors. In doing so, I was able to retain my controllers which I liked.
    (5) I can't imagine that there are too many FETs in the internal controller. I like to use as many FETs as possible in order to avoid the controller overheating.
    (6) They are surely exaggerating with the 6000W claim. Crystalyte advertises a continuous 4000W with a 40mm stator. You could definitely draw 6000W for a short time, but if you really want that much power I would recommend a 50mm magnet.

    The good points:
    (1) A true sine wave controller is very quiet and buttery smooth,
    (2) The bluetooth is cool,
    (3) Panasonic is a good brand.

    If I were you, I would get the biggest and best motor that I am aware of, which is a Cromotor V4. Buy an external 24 FET Sabvoton controller. You probably won't ever have a problem with heat. Those components are very common (a Cromotor is an upgraded QS Motor) so spare parts would always be available.

    If you can't afford $600 plus shipping for a Cromotor V4, then you can get a QS Motor for much less, but the axles will be 1mm less in diameter.
    Last edited by commuter ebikes; 11-17-2016, 04:04 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      Regarding your dropout, your frame will have either a 135, 150, 170 or 190mm dropout. Some fat bikes have a 193mm dropout. You can determine your dropout width by Googling your frame model.

      If you have a fat tire bike, then make sure that the total width of your hub motor axle is wide enough for torque plates and axle nuts. You will need at least 268mm axle width for a 190mm dropout frame and 248mm axle width for a 170mm dropout frame. If your total axle length is a little to long, that is not a problem. If it is too short, that is a bit of a disaster.

      Most hub motor manufacturers are happy to make you a custom axle to whatever dropout size and total axle length that you specify. To order a custom length axle, just ask the motor supplier if they will do this, expect to pay a little extra and wait a little longer for the motor. The motor will arrive with the custom axle already installed. For about $50 more, you can order a spare axle at this time for later on down the road. That way if and when you strip your axle threads or bust an axle, you will have a replacement axle ready to install. Removing and replacing an axle is enough of a challenge without having to score a custom axle first.
      Last edited by commuter ebikes; 11-17-2016, 04:08 PM.

      Comment


      • ronbrown629
        ronbrown629 commented
        Editing a comment
        OK so check this out link out

        By the way thank you for that reply. My dropout is either 135 or 150 mm

        Mountain bike


        http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?rou...product_id=253

        I'm going with the crown kit possibly?
        Not sure yet
        Its about the same price

        The wheels are compatible
        And they're compatible from the ebay seller too after talking with him.

        He said he never tested the motor for 6000 watts so he's either lying or he doesn't know.


        I still have major concerns on the battery.

        For example take this controller into account

        60A 18 Fet 4110 Controller. Our controllers are suitable for battery packs from 36V, up to 75V nominal (21S

        But it says Max voltage is like 90-100 volts
        So can I input 100 volts without damaging it or the motor?

        That is the crown motor.


        And what amps hour batteries should I get and hook up in series or parallel?

      #4
      I don't see any photos of your bike. What is the frame made of? Steel can easily be jacked or spread. Aluminum, maybe and people will argue with me on this.

      Comment


      • ronbrown629
        ronbrown629 commented
        Editing a comment
        I thought I did I will

      #5
      Great call on The Crown. That is a great motor. It has a 40mm wide magnet and it uses a lot of aluminum instead of steel specifically for better heat dissipation. I am glad that you are planning to avoid heat problems because that will make your motor last longer and you won't have to stop riding sometimes in order to let your motor cool down. The Crown is also very common, so you can reap all of the benefits of using a common component.

      I recommend a single 72V battery or two 36V batteries in parallel. Hopefully 72V nominal voltage is enough for you. If you use a 96V nominal voltage battery (you mentioned running 100V), you will need to choose 4115 FETs which many people say are not as durable as 4110 FETs. What top speed are you looking to achieve, and what size tires are you using? I have 26" rims and my bike goes up to 46mph with a 72V setup.

      Remember that a battery with a nominal voltage of 72V will have a fully charged voltage of about 83.9V. My point is that if you choose a battery with a nominal voltage of 96V, the fully charged voltage will be too high to use 4110 FETs (which have a 100V maximum). You need to use 4115 FETs for a battery with a 96V nominal voltage.

      You can also make a LiPo battery for some voltage higher than 72V (for a higher top speed) but lower than 96V (so that you can still use 4110 FETs). If you don't like LiPo, most battery manufacturers will make you a custom 18650 battery with just about any voltage, capacity and size (as in "short and squat" or "long and narrow") that you specify. Battery Space in Richmond, CA is a domestic company that will make a custom battery, but I would buy a single 72V battery from Luna. Your battery will only last you 4-5 years so it is best to use an off the shelf battery. With Luna, you will get a great price. After 4-5 years, just buy another one.

      Remember to use a high quality, 100A BMS. I vaporized three 50A BMS units in less than six months running a continuous 40A with bursts up to 81A. If you choose a single 72V battery (as opposed to two 36V batteries in parallel), then you only have to buy one BMS. A quality 100A BMS costs about $150. The only reason that you would run two 36V batteries (always in parallel!) is if you wanted to put one on either side of your bike (e.g. in the panniers) so as to distribute the weight equally. In this case, you run them in parallel because running them in series unnecessarily strains one of the BMS units. I know of no advantage to running two batteries in series for this situation.

      Are you sure you don't want 24 FETs? 18 is certainly enough, but with 24 you are practically immune from heat problems. Of course, a 24 FET controller is larger. Hopefully you will buy a sine wave controller. I use a square wave controller and it growls. Very noisy! I imagine that you don't want to consume your precious battery power producing sound waves.

      The battery capacity that you choose depends on your desired range. If you can recharge at your destination (e.g. your job), then you can choose a much smaller battery which will save you weight and money.
      Last edited by commuter ebikes; 11-18-2016, 02:48 AM.

      Comment


      • ronbrown629
        ronbrown629 commented
        Editing a comment
        I'm actually emailing Edward LTEn right now for the controller.
        He programmed it for 110 volts

      #6
      I have no idea what a BMS is or how it hooks up to a controller.

      I want to buy the batteries off eBay.

      Buy 2 48 volts and put them in series or two 36 volts in series.

      I know the nominal voltage will be more than 100 volts. I just need a controller that can handle that.

      Comment


        #7
        I have Lyen Mark 2 controllers on all four of my bikes. I am happy with them. Edward Lyen is a great vendor & a very nice man. I had him program my regen to max, optimize the voltage for the nominal voltage of my batteries, set the three speed switch to 33/66/99, and set the motor & phase currents to max. I have had zero problems.

        Comment


        • ronbrown629
          ronbrown629 commented
          Editing a comment
          Nice
          How's your bike doing?
          It sounds weird to ask that I'm treating your bike like a human

        #8
        Originally posted by ronbrown629 View Post
        How's your bike doing?
        I have four ebikes that are all almost identical. Ebiking is my hobby and I am 100% obsessed with this hobby so my bikes are completely tightened down. If you are referring to the Lyen Mark 2 controller, dealing with Edward Lyen and using his controllers has been a very enjoyable experience. He lives an hour from me so I was lucky enough to go to his house a few times. He is one of the nicest men I have ever met. He is a very busy guy, so getting an email answered takes a few days.

        He is 100% on top of his controller game. If you email him with what you are doing, he will ask you all he needs to know (bicycle + rider + cargo weight, nominal voltage of battery, continuous and max current draw, LVC, grades of hills that you may want to climb, etc.) in order for him to program your controller.

        I chose maximum regen and 33/66/99 speeds for the three speed switch. Are you going with 18 or 24 FETs? Buying 24 FETs now is an effective insurance policy against controller overheating. If you blow some FETs, the controller will need repair.

        It worked best for me to anticipate the settings that I needed, have him program it to those settings, and then I don't mess with the settings. You can change the settings yourself, but that is an extra step which involves installing a program on your computer and then dealing with your new settings. I tried changing the controller settings on a Mark 1 controller awhile ago, and it was sort of a frustrating experience getting the program installed on 64-bit Windows 7. The program is designed for Windows XP. I did get it installed with some help from Alan B., but then I was a little over my head because it was asking questions about battery current and motor current which I still don't understand. You also have to buy a USB programming cable. You need to leave the program installed on your computer because it has parameter files saved. I like to keep my computer as lean as possible. Long story short, do a "set it and forget it" with him doing the initial programming.

        Many people will recommend a sine wave or FOC controller for the smooth acceleration and quiet operation. The square wave (trapezoidal wave) technology of the Lyen controllers is the first generation technology of ebike controllers. It is harder on the motor. I definitely enjoy my Lyen controllers (a lot of power, three speed switch, no reliability problems in several thousand miles, the size worked well for my builds), but there is a case to be made for using the more advanced technology of the sine wave and FOC controllers.

        If you ever have a problem with one of his controllers, he will repair it. In this case, you email him, get his address and ship it to him. Like I said, he is busy so the repair could take a few weeks, but the labor pricing is fair and he does good work.
        Last edited by commuter ebikes; 11-19-2016, 05:07 AM.

        Comment


        • ronbrown629
          ronbrown629 commented
          Editing a comment
          Awesome and he's replied to me within hours and minutes. The dudes awesome

        #9
        It sounds like you are building a really high voltage bike. Your battery is 110V? How much current do you plan to draw? With 110V you will be able to go over 60mph on 26" wheels.

        Comment


        • ronbrown629
          ronbrown629 commented
          Editing a comment
          As soon as I have it I will post a video on this thread in the coming months or maybe weeks. Stay tuned

        • ronbrown629
          ronbrown629 commented
          Editing a comment
          Hi again Ron,

          This for the battery description. I see that it uses 13 cells in series per 48V battery, so two 48V packs in series is 96.2V nominal, 109.2V fully charged. I will configure the controller the battery voltage prior I ship it out. A PayPal invoice is being sent. Thank you!

          Regards,
          Edward Lyen

        #10
        When you use two 48V batteries in series, remember to use a 100A BMS on each battery because the BMS on the battery closest to the controller will be having all of the current pass through it. In this case, you could periodically rotate the position of your batteries so that each battery would take a turn in the strenuous position.

        If you used two 96V batteries in parallel, it would be easier on the BMS units because they would each have to handle only about 50% of the current. In this case, I would still recommend a 100A BMS on each battery.

        If you used a single 96V battery, you would only have to buy one BMS, but it would have to be a 100A BMS because it would obviously be having all of the current passing through it.

        If you are using 18650 cells, choose 3000mAh cells rather than, say, 2200mAh, cells so that the cells can deliver the current. I have 2200mAh cells in a 72V, 20Ah battery (which is two 36V batteries in series) and they can't even give me a continuous 40A for an entire 12 mile ride. You will be happy with 3000mAh cells.

        I can't imagine you needing more than 40A continuous. Of course, you may draw short bursts of much higher current (e.g. almost 100A), thus the recommendation for a 100A BMS on each battery. If you use 50A BMS units, you will smoke them drawing a continuous 40-60A with bursts of over 80A.

        Remember that the higher the Ah (i.e. capacity) of your battery, the more able the battery is to deliver high amounts of current. You should get at least a 20Ah battery, in my opinion. A 20Ah battery will weigh about 20 lbs. If you can handle more weight and expense, a higher capacity battery will put you in a position to draw more current and travel farther between charges.

        A Cycle Analyst V3 is an absolute joy to have. You can see your motor temperature (and many other things) as well as limit your current.
        Last edited by commuter ebikes; 11-22-2016, 12:38 AM.

        Comment


          #11
          How does the BMS connect to the batteries
          I have an electric bike right now it's 48 volts 1000 watts. I use 4 12 (10 amps hour each battery) volt lead acids in series. I've never had an issue.
          Its been almost a year and each lead acid battery is in good shape. Ive ridden my ebike about 100 times. I know that's not a lot and this is the reason I'm upgrading. Its also to get to work faster. I ride my ebike to work. I want tons of Range on it.

          I'v never seen a BMS. How does it hookup to the batteries? Send me pictures of your BMS on your bike if you can.

          Comment


            #12
            Originally posted by ronbrown629 View Post
            How does the BMS connect to the batteries
            I have an electric bike right now it's 48 volts 1000 watts. I use 4 12 (10 amps hour each battery) volt lead acids in series. I've never had an issue.
            Its been almost a year and each lead acid battery is in good shape. Ive ridden my ebike about 100 times. I know that's not a lot and this is the reason I'm upgrading. Its also to get to work faster. I ride my ebike to work. I want tons of Range on it.

            I'v never seen a BMS. How does it hookup to the batteries? Send me pictures of your BMS on your bike if you can.
            The BMS will be attached to your battery by the battery manufacturer. It is safest for them to do it because they will choose the right BMS and install it properly. Just request a 100A BMS on all of your battery packs.

            Here is a link to everything you ever wanted to know about Battery Management Systems: http://www.mpoweruk.com/bms.htm

            I have never seen mine as it is inside the battery shrink wrap. I did see my burnt 50A ones, but that was just a charred, stinking mess.

            Here is a 72V, 100A BMS from http://www.servovision.com/Battery/B...iFe%20BMS.html. You said you were using two 48V batteries in series; the linked page shows some 48V BMS units.

            Click image for larger version

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            Last edited by commuter ebikes; 11-23-2016, 12:51 AM.

            Comment


              #13
              Here is a highlight from the data sheet:

              Click image for larger version

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              Comment


                #14
                The data sheet highlight seems to be saying that if you draw too much current, then the BMS will shut off your system very quickly. If this happens, you can reset your system by unplugging and then plugging in your battery for an immediate recovery with hopefully no damage to anything.

                In the case of a short circuit, the BMS shuts down your system almost instantaneously. You reset it the same way.

                If you have two batteries in series, you can reset it by unplugging and then plugging in either one of the batteries.

                I have a 36V battery with a bad row that I use sometimes. It is one of two 36V batteries wired in series in a 72V battery. That 36V pack with a bad row shuts down its BMS quite often. Turning my power button on and off will not reset it. I have to unplug and then plug in one of the batteries.
                Last edited by commuter ebikes; 11-23-2016, 01:08 AM.

                Comment


                  #15
                  This circuit breaker would be appropriate for your application: https://www.amazon.com/Generic-Singl...it+breaker+63a.

                  It is installed between the battery and controller in order to protect the controller from a power surge. It is reset by simply flipping the switch.

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Comment


                  • ronbrown629
                    ronbrown629 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    This is off topic but
                    Where do you work at?
                Working...
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