Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How do I know if I have a controller problem?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    How do I know if I have a controller problem?

    I had a problem with my bike a few days after riding it in heavy rain. My display, an eggrider, had water ingress, but seemed to be drying up when the problems started. At first it stopped registering speed and the motor would cut out as a result. Then I started getting a "throttle wide open" error (E04). I have one of these twist throttles.

    At first I thought this was a display problem, and the guys at eggrider were nice enough to replace it under warranty. However after receiving it, all the symptoms are still the same.

    I suspect that having a simultaneous failure of the speed sensor and the throttle is highly unlikely, so I'm tempted to think that the controller is the problem. I have ordered a new speed sensor but haven't received it yet.

    Before I take the plunge and order a new controller, is there anything else I can do? I have a access to a multimeter. Can it be used to rule a fault of the throttle and speed sensor? There are 3 lines in each, but don't know what I should be seeing on each one. I also have the programming cable.

    Thanks in advance for any advice,

    Luis

    #2
    By the way, this is a BBSHD.

    Comment


      #3
      Hi Luis,

      A throttle wide open error would indicate a voltage of say over 4.2vdc @ the throttle output wire. To make sure it's the throttle itself, try unplugging it and see if the error goes away. To check the throttle voltages, see this thread for where, what, and how...

      https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...d-modification

      I'd written something up earlier for you about the speed sensor... (includes wiring pin-out map for harness)

      https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...8703#post98703

      The two have 2 things in common. Using the 5vdc controller regulated power, and ground. But as the throttle needs full voltage (5vdc) to set a WOT error, that must be present. But a loss of ground to both would fit the symptoms nicely! This would stick the throttle on high, and disables the speed sensors operation. Verify good grounds to both devices!

      Any questions let me know.



      Regards,
      T.C
      See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks T..C.,

        The error code clears if I disconnect the throttle. I also quickly checked conductivity to neutral with the battery disconnected, and I get no resistance in one of the contacts, both on the throttle and the speed sensor, so everything looks ok. BTW, the throttle problem appeared some time after the speed sensor problem. They were not simultaneous.

        ​​​​​​Luis

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks for the clarification. As far as the throttle issue, it looks like you've isolated it to the throttle and it's wiring. ( you could double check by carefully making sure you have 5vdc at the appropriate throttle input pins, and/or using one of the controller checks (eliminating the throttle) in the GUIDE...) So you can track it down further into the throttle if desired and/or order a replacement.
          See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

          Comment


            #6
            It's definitely not the throttle. I have ground and 5V. And I replaced the twist throttle with the original thumb throttle that I got with the motor, and I get the same error.

            The likelihood of all this being a coincidence is zilch.

            I noticed that the led on the speed sensor is always on, but does flicker faintly when the magnet passes the sensor. Not easy to see, but it's there. Is this the way it's supposed to work? The speed on both the eggrider and the 860C display is 0, with wheel spinning.

            Is this definitely a controller malfunction? Any chance of repairing, or do I need to replace it?

            Thanks,
            Luis
            ​​​


            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Luis View Post
              It's definitely not the throttle. I have ground and 5V. And I replaced the twist throttle with the original thumb throttle that I got with the motor, and I get the same error.

              The likelihood of all this being a coincidence is zilch.


              You'll convince me if your throttle output voltage for both is below .9 vdc fully closed, and goes to 3.6 vdc at Wide Open Throttle. Still using the original Bafang HIGO connectors? Is the output (throttle input wire to the controller) some how being shorted to the 5vdc supply? If the error goes away with the throttle removed... the problem has to be in the throttle, it's wiring or connection. If the throttle input to the controller is indeed around .8 vdc at fully closed, and still sets an error. I'd go for a new controller.

              Edit: Hold on... Not sure if the error code set point limit is in the firmware, or corresponds to the throttle programming set points. Would be worth checking that the programmed throttle start point is above the actual throttle output starting voltage.
              IE: Default set point at 11 (1.1vdc) Actual .8 vdc...




              Originally posted by Luis View Post
              I noticed that the led on the speed sensor is always on, but does flicker faintly when the magnet passes the sensor. Not easy to see, but it's there. Is this the way it's supposed to work? The speed on both the eggrider and the 860C display is 0, with wheel spinning.

              https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...x-speed-sensor

              ​​​
              Last edited by Tommycat; 01-21-2020, 06:10 PM. Reason: Check throttle tab programming set points.
              See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks T.C.

                I checked both throttles, and when fed 5.2V they show 0.88V / 4.5V and 0.9V / 4.5V, thumb, twist, closed/fully open, respectively. So definitely not the throttle.

                I remember I set the start voltage higher than default as the motor was engaging everytime the throttle hit something while maneuvering the bike by hand in tight spaces. But I suppose that has nothing to do with it.

                it could be the connector that shorts + and signal somehow when connected. Tomorrow or so, I'll repeat the test from the main harness, as the results above were obtained directly from the throttle's connectors. However I doubt it, given the short succession of problems with the speed sensor and then the throttle. It sounds to me something more fundamental.

                Luís

                Comment


                  #9
                  Ok, tested for shorts from the main harness connector, and there are none when the throttle is connected.

                  Luis

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Luis View Post
                    I checked both throttles, and when fed 5.2V they show 0.88V / 4.5V and 0.9V / 4.5V, thumb, twist, closed/fully open, respectively. So definitely not the throttle.

                    I'm convinced on the throttle's operation. ;-) These readings look spot on. If I follow you this was a bench test? Error still goes away with the throttle disconnected? And then comes back when plugged in?




                    Originally posted by Luis View Post
                    I remember I set the start voltage higher than default as the motor was engaging everytime the throttle hit something while maneuvering the bike by hand in tight spaces. But I suppose that has nothing to do with it.

                    Interesting... was the motor activation caused by a bump or jar of the throttle or bike frame. Or by an actual accidental twist or actuation by normal means? You have checked your entire harness and connectors for soundness and damage?(pinches?)

                    If the throttle's start position setting is the basis for the error code alarm point. And some how thru the magic of water egress this setting got changed , perhaps to a lower setting. That it would be possible with a normal throttle output to set the error code? I would verify it's setting, then try higher ones to see if I could get the error to go away. (say 25 or even 30) And if it has been changed... could the same of happened to the speedo setpoints causing it's error? (IE: speed meter type)



                    Originally posted by Luis View Post
                    However I doubt it, given the short succession of problems with the speed sensor and then the throttle. It sounds to me something more fundamental.

                    Luís
                    It certainly is a stinker. And I want to commend your efforts! Trouble shooting can be trying... especially by playing 20 questions over a period of days. :-/ Testing and elimination is the only way in this realm.
                    Remove and replace is also an option, which I refuse to do without taking away all other possibilities. You may feel differently, especially if time is an issue. But thank you for hanging in there, I'm in it till the end!

                    See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_2020-01-25-01-10-06-333_com.eggbikes.EggRider.png
Views:	192
Size:	125.1 KB
ID:	100453

                        Comment


                          #13
                          So T.C. you were right! I'm a computer guy, and it's the first time in my life I've seen a digital system with no error checking. Some water in the display and the throttle voltages get written? Not sure if swearing is allowed, but WTF?

                          Anyway, the speed sensor problem persists. I'm sure it's not magnet placement. Should the LED light go totally off when the magnet passes by? Mine does an almost imperceptible flicker. Should the signal drop when the magnet is in close proximity, or only when it passes by? Would the meter react fast enough to see the voltage drop,?

                          I had a look at all the controller settings, rewrote everything, and cannot see anything else that would justify the sensor failure.

                          One last question... In the process of testing the twist throttle I moronically fed it reverse polarity and, obviously, disaster ensued. I got a couple of Honeywell hall sensors, I'm just wondering if they would be easy to replace. I'll open the throttle one of these days.

                          Luis
                          ​​​​​​
                          Last edited by Luis; 01-25-2020, 04:45 AM.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Definitely something fishy with the speed sensor cable or controller. .. I have 50V on + and 2V on signal just by turning on the battery. If I turn on the motor, I get the same 50V on + and the expected 5V on signal. I also have a 60ohm short from + to the battery positive terminal. This can't be right, right?

                            Haven't bench tested the sensor, d​on't know if it is fried.

                            Although there are some posts claiming you can ride without a speed sensor, I get error code 21 after a minute or so, regardless of power off settings on the displays. Anyway to circumvent this?

                            Sorry for so many questions. This forum is invaluable.

                            Luis

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Luis View Post
                              So T.C. you were right! I'm a computer guy, and it's the first time in my life I've seen a digital system with no error checking. Some water in the display and the throttle voltages get written? Not sure if swearing is allowed, but WTF?
                              Whew, I'm glad you found the issue! That far into the near impossible was getting uncomfortable. One down, one to go... :-) well OK, maybe two.



                              Originally posted by Luis View Post
                              In the process of testing the twist throttle I moronically fed it reverse polarity and, obviously, disaster ensued. I got a couple of Honeywell hall sensors, I'm just wondering if they would be easy to replace. I'll open the throttle one of these days.​​​​​
                              If you don't mind soldering, have some heat shrink, and the correct hall sensor. (SS49E or equivalent) Pretty easy and straight forward. I found the hardest part was to get the throttle assembly open! (pics and links in the guide...)

                              What mine looks like...
                              Sensor in a plastic holder, with the leads bent at a 90 degree angle back attached to the 3 wires. In my case Green, Black, and White. (yep, NEVER trust "typical" color codes!)









                              Originally posted by Luis View Post
                              Anyway, the speed sensor problem persists. I'm sure it's not magnet placement. Should the LED light go totally off when the magnet passes by? Mine does an almost imperceptible flicker. Should the signal drop when the magnet is in close proximity, or only when it passes by? Would the meter react fast enough to see the voltage drop,?​​​​​
                              Don't be shy with the magnet.. I'd even try a powerful old hard drive magnet held by hand swiping directly over the cross in the circle. But with your excessive voltages described below, surprised that it would switch at all.
                              It's been described as a "quick blink" that happens as the magnet is directly over the sensor. As 2mm is recommended between magnet and sensor, right on top of would seem accurate. Not sure if the sensor has a timing chip like the gear sensor. But I don't think it would hurt if you "hovered" the magnet back and forth, or even held it their to see if a meter picks up the signal going low.


                              Originally posted by Luis View Post
                              Definitely something fishy with the speed sensor cable or controller. .. I have 50V on + and 2V on signal just by turning on the battery. If I turn on the motor, I get the same 50V on + and the expected 5V on signal. I also have a 60ohm short from + to the battery positive terminal. This can't be right, right?

                              Sure wouldn't want to put a new sensor to that!
                              I'd stay far away from the 50vdc input for now, and concentrate on the signal to ground function. A good test would be to act like the sensor would, by intermitantly grounding the the speed signal to ground. First quick try I would have my amperage meter in series to verify the circuit is not drawing over 10mA just to be safe. But hopefully after a few signal groundings your error will go away and perhaps a speedo reading. This should verify if your controller is viable. If your successful, a reed switch in place of the hall sensor switch will work nicely.


                              Originally posted by Luis View Post
                              Although there are some posts claiming you can ride without a speed sensor, I get error code 21 after a minute or so, regardless of power off settings on the displays. Anyway to circumvent this?

                              Some of the earlier models allowed this, but not anymore... IMO there is a work around if you don't mind losing your speedo.

                              Standing by.



                              See my completed Magic Pie V5 rear hub motor E-Bike build HERE.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X