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BBSHD - What does "hot rod" programming mean?

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    BBSHD - What does "hot rod" programming mean?

    A few weeks back I purchased a BBSHD from LunaCycle. After an installation on my ~26lb MTB and initial test rides, I was quite pleased with the noise level, but somewhat disappointed with the performance.

    I adjusted the PAS settings all the way up, reconfigured the modes to be 0-9 instead of 0-5 (not that it should have made a difference). I also set the tires to 16". Still with all the changes the speed seems to top out at around 28Mph (I weigh 210lbs). Based on many reports, I expected to be in the mid-'30s, but no combination of settings or gears will break the "30" barrier.

    I'm tempted to get the programming cable and start tinkering, but before doing that I wanted to understand what settings are applied to the unit under the term "hot rod" programming.

    Thanks in advance,​​
    Ty


    #2
    Essentially it's the programming that seems to be the most stable, with full throttle at 0 PAS. Please see electric bike blog for the specifics. EM3ev settings.
    A word to the wise. Don't mess with settings not understood. Karl's guidelines are spot on. http://electric-fatbike.com/2015/06/...ing-the-bbs02/

    Comment


      #3
      I totally agree with Louis's suggestion - read the article and follow Karl's guidelines. I did just that after purchasing a cable and by increasing to 30A and 100% throttle at PAS 0, I got 38 mph on my stock BBSHD (52v 20Ah 25r batt, 46t ugly stock chainring x 17t cog on 700c tires). I switched to a sweet Luna Eclipse chainring (42t) and it tops out at 33-35 depending on wind. Fast enough really and plenty of power to climb hills. Battery never seems to heat up, nor the drive. Karl's advice on settings to choose worked well for me and I got a good 8-10mph faster.
      Last edited by Alpinist; 02-23-2016, 08:30 PM. Reason: spelling

      Comment


      • Louis
        Louis commented
        Editing a comment
        No changes to programming out of the box and with the Eclipse 33MPH 220lbs 60lb bike

      • craigsj
        craigsj commented
        Editing a comment
        38 mph on 700c road tires with a 46x17 would require a cadence of 180 rpm. Likewise, 42x17 at 33-35 mph is about a 160 cadence. BBSHD can't do that on 52V. To achieve these speeds you need at least 110 gear inches. You're claiming 70.

      #4
      Thanks for all of the terrific responses! If I decide to flash the motor I will following this guidance.

      Comment


        #5
        I suggest the basic programming we ship with is great. Works for me for more than two years, and now on two BBSHD. 5 drives total. IMO there's little need for 99 % of users to reprogram. Many a controller has been killed by experimenting and thinking we're smarter tha Bafang engineers.

        Comment


          #6
          When the bike is in PAS "0", I don't get any thumb-throttle activity. Is there anything I need to do with the settings? Like be in the speed stepping 3 or 5?

          Comment


          #7
          I'm sure I've seen it in the past, but can't find it now.. does anyone have a sheet or file on the box stock BBS02 settings/programming that is used with 3 level, 5 level, and 9 levels dashboards?

          Comment


            #8
            Is the limited current set to 30 amps?

            Comment


            • Louis
              Louis commented
              Editing a comment
              For now, more to come...

            #9
            Yes, even though I don't have a Bafang, I believe the BBSHD is limited to 30 amps by the controller, and the earlier BBS02 is limited to 25 amps, both of with are pretty respectable amounts of amperage though.

            I run a couple of BMC hub motors that have external controllers that have a jumper for 35 and 50 amps, but my BMC V2T motors would probably burn up if I gave them 50 amps.

            I suppose I could jumper the one controller that has a Cycle Analyst connected to it to the 50 amps, and then assign a lower amperage via the Cycle Analyst to something like 40 amps to get a little more performance. But, honestly, I like to keep things a little tuned down on my everyday rider.

            Otherwise, you can get more wattage output by also giving a unit more voltage by a different battery, if the motor and controller can tolerate it.

            I'm working on a Cyclone mid-drive unit that will be more hot-rod oriented, which I'm kind of debating within myself, about using an existing 52 volt battery that I already have or to get a 63 volt one. I mean, the thing will have 24" wheels and I'll probably initially change the two front sprockets to gear it down for torque and just to reduce the chainsaw look of those things.

            So, the thread on this forum that I called this thing a "Monster eTrike Build" in may not be much of a "monster" at the controller-limited 40 amps, with 52 volts, the smaller tires, and smaller sprockets.

            I don't know... it will undoubtedly be a couple of weeks before I get it on a road test with the 52 volt battery lashed down for temporary testing purposes. A 60-63 volt battery is pretty costly, but I don't want to weld up a battery box until I decide which battery it will get. And I'd kind of like it to stay a "monster", even though I'd undoubtedly keep it on a leash at most times with the Cycle Analyst limiting the final speed. We'll see...

            Comment


              #10
              Louis are you getting 33 mph on throttle alone, or PAS and throttle?

              Comment


                #11
                I really dont think 35mph or even 33mph out of the stock system is possible on flat ground without hard pedaling.

                Comment


                • Clarus Creative Solutions
                  Clarus Creative Solutions commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I get 36mph on the BBSHD I got from Luna cycle not pedaling. I get 23 - 28 mph on hills. I just installed it, no programming. I'm just wondering if Luna programmed it to 30amps instead of 25amps. I should make a video then... I thought I was going slow, thinking about a 52 tooth ring, but now you guys say this
                  Last edited by Clarus Creative Solutions; 04-13-2016, 10:59 PM.

                #12
                Thanks Eric. That's been my experience but there are many claims to the contrary out there. Some of them on fat bikes even.

                Comment


                  #13
                  Quoting a top speed involves so many potential variables which are never stated. Was there a tailwind, for example? What's the pack voltage? Is the speedo accurate? Was the ground level, or "it looked level"? Was the pack fully charged or not? Tire Pressure? etc, etc....

                  I can get to 32 mph indicated on my fat BBSHD, but my speedo is not verified (tire diameter based, not GPS checked), I only weigh 140 lbs, and I have low rolling resistance tubeless tires. There might have been a tailwind.

                  Point is, take all speed claims with a grain of salt, unless you know the details.

                  Pump up your tires, freshly charge your pack, put on tight clothes, head down wind, get in a tuck, and then see what you get.

                  EDIT: I almost forgot the most important thing!

                  Pics, or it didn't happen:

                  Click image for larger version

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                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by JPLabs; 04-12-2016, 05:18 PM.
                  Fabrication is fun! Build something today. Show someone. Let them help. Inspire and share. Spread the desire.

                  Comment


                    #14
                    Originally posted by JPLabs View Post
                    Quoting a top speed involves so many potential variables which are never stated. Was there a tailwind, for example? What's the pack voltage? Is the speedo accurate? Was the ground level, or "it looked level"? Was the pack fully charged or not? Tire Pressure? etc, etc....

                    I can get to 32 mph indicated on my fat BBSHD, but my speedo is not verified (tire diameter based, not GPS checked), I only weigh 140 lbs, and I have low rolling resistance tubeless tires. There might have been a tailwind.

                    Point is, take all speed claims with a grain of salt, unless you know the details.

                    Pump up your tires, freshly charge your pack, put on tight clothes, head down wind, get in a tuck, and then see what you get.

                    EDIT: I almost forgot the most important thing!

                    Pics, or it didn't happen:

                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]n4019[/ATTACH]
                    I think that is well understood by most: flat ground, no wind, full 52v battery, 30 amps, hunched, etc.

                    I love the BBSHD but my initial experience was closer to TyB's - underwhelming due to so many claims of much higher speeds.

                    Mine goes 30mph on throttle, 35+ with throttle and PAS 5 (street radar confirmed both). No matter what I might change - bike, tires, clothing - my BBSHD simply will not move a bike 36mph on throttle alone. The power gap from 30 to 36mph is just so huge.

                    Either Clarus got a supercharged BBSHD or his display is inaccurate. I suspect the latter because (1) Eric ought to know this thing's limits; and (2) if you're really going 36mph on a bike, you wouldn't think it was slow
                    Last edited by CraigAustin; 04-14-2016, 07:16 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Clarus Creative Solutions
                      Clarus Creative Solutions commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Today I kept checking my display, it it goes nutz after 33 MPH, it jumps to 17mph. So, the display is really not accurate. C965. Also, today I got the new display. Installed and tomorrow I try to see if it show real speed. Anyway, I must note that my bike is a 20" MTB. https://youtu.be/PhtMPuQG7Dc

                    #15
                    If it's not GPS or radar speed, it's just a guess........ Display speeds are about as accurate as display battery capacity.

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